"possisbly get it though for the S6 attack....."
Given the speed of Scouts the infiltrate and scout rule - it can even give you 6 shots at s 6 right in the rear armour of enemy vahicle - that is statisticly speaking 1 Penetrate - just enought to get this LR to give up shooting this evil BC of his
)
Isn't the Astartes Grenade Launcher a rapid fire weapon? That would mean a possible 6 shots at str6, not 3.
The Blast Weapon shots......
That shot is "Rapid Fire, Blast." So again, I think within 12" it'd be two shots.
now you know that you cant take 2 of the same characters in any game. so why would u simply wish to argue semantics? it was that way in 4th you cant use two of the same unique characters. your attempting to lawyer the rules and it wont work. the "counts as " rule is to allowplayers who dont play a named chapter to have the benefits of a named character. which makes sense if they liek lysander but hate the fists then they can use him in what ever army they create. thats what they mean by the counts as rule. now as for alot of the other stuff i am looking forward to playign my chapter in 5th as well as finally building lysanders 1st company. but i wont side him with some other named character. i know you can but its not points effective. if you hav abbadon and say typhus at 1500 pts.. you would never winin 5th so why woudl u wanna try to take say some one liek cantor and shrike? last time i checked none of them are cheap and at the min your going to want 3-4 troops just to have a chance to hold objectives. thats the new bread and butter for marines. their troops are still some of the best for their points cost and if you dig them in its still going to be hard to dig them out. as for the drop pods i would say stick to the odd numbers 3-5 sound good to me but i would go more with 5 just because you can hit hard with say dreds and stern guard and then follow it up with marines so that you can consolidate the gains made by your advanced forces. me i think im gonna probably go with a min of 30 marines and 10 sniper scounts just cause it provides a good starting base to make an army out of.
Gate of Infinity and Teleport homers.
Due to the wording of both of these, am I correct in believing if a squad & Lib uses GoI to land near a Teleport homer, they will not suffer from the possibility of one being lost int he warp due to the double because the ruling states ".. the DS attempt scatters" and teleport homers stop all scattering attempts?
I would say yes + Locator becon does that too
@Emperor -- I read it the same way; at 12" you fire 2 x Blast per Launcher...
@ Kirby -- I agree with Akuma since it also says "using the Deep Strike Rules" for the unit, and Locator allows any Deep Striking unit to chose not to roll for scatter.
I was looking over the Scout Bikes entry today and I noticed that they have Infiltrate as well as Scout now. But they're bikes! That can't be right... can it? It's in both the unit description and the army list so it's not a typo.
So I can infiltrate, scout 12" and drop pod assault with locater beacons? Brutal.
is this true???!!! can anyone confirm if this is possible???Originally Posted by prose.
-Jim Elliot-
“That man is no fool, who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose”
@ Prose -- Welcome to the infamous "Double Wing" first turn assault... call 'em vanilla if you will, but that's how I've been playing my "balanced" Dark Angels list for a while on objective missions.
It get's even better when you have 2-3 squads of 3 beacons, so your opponent doesn't know who to blast first even if they do manage to seize the initiative!
@ Blameless -- Prose has it right, those are the Scout Bike Stat special rules, and they can be combined (like those evil witches, Eldar Pathfinder, and others...)
Last edited by TheMacDiesel; 29-09-2008 at 20:48.
they do in fact have infiltrate. I dont see anything in the infiltrate entry in the rulebook that says bikers cant infiltrate
awesome! these guys will be staple in my army now!
-Jim Elliot-
“That man is no fool, who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose”
mind=blown
Scout was good enough already but you can go anywhere on the board with this. Think about the precision fire you could get with drop pod assaults...
So! A new tactics subject: Ways to cause early game ruckus considering that scout biker locater beacons can get to more or less wherever you want for a 1st turn drop pod assault.
The stuff we can do with this is far crazier than any Double-Wing tactic just because there's more bodies and more mobility...
I'm thinking
a) Two drop pods at either end of an enemy transport with their respective units deploying as combat squads up the sides, surrounding all exits completely and then destroying it and the unit inside (5 point melta gun upgrade destroys 500 point lightning claw crusader death squad before it has even moved, news at eleven).
b) First wave of 4 Ironclads with dual heavy flamers annihilate vast swathes of enemy troops and block line of sight to your approaching army with pods before charging into combat next turn and blocking line of sight even more.
The Teleport Homers don't function like that with the Gate of Infinity. The rules for Teleport homers say they can only be used for units of Terminators Teleporting, not other units Deep Striking by any other means.
However Locator Beacons do read this way, and I would assume they can be used in concert together with the Gate.
As for the Infiltrating Scout Bikes, while you can do this, the fact that your Scout Move has to keep you 12" from the enemy anyway makes this whole idea less useful. About all its good for is to set them up last. But anyone at a tourney is going to see your list before they deploy, so they can spot this coming. Not to mention that if you don't get furst turn, which you will prolly know before you deploy if the new missions rules stay mostly intact at a tourney, then you wont scout bike them up for and pods anyway as they will most likly be blown away before you get to get your part of turn 1.
For a tactic I see no point in taking more then 3 or 4 with the locator beacon just for this reason. Its a cheap way to get your points across the table via Pods when you know your going first, and not a hinderance of Points when your going second and would rather save them and use them to outflank.
Last edited by Marius Xerxes; 29-09-2008 at 21:34.
Standing in the light, I see only darkness.
"The ambition of Caesar and of Napoleon pales before that which could not rest until it had seized the minds of men and controlled even their unborn thoughts." - The King in Yellow.
Wait I think this is even better than you are reading it!!! i cant find anything disallowing a bike from scouting 24"4th ed prohibited it but in 5th i cant find anything that does!!! can anyone confirm/deny this???
-Jim Elliot-
“That man is no fool, who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose”
Yes you can move 24", but since you cannot move within 12" of any enemy unit during any part of the scout move, it is academic. Also, 4th edition scouts and eldar pathfinders could already do this. Deploy 18+" away, scout move to 12+"...Wait I think this is even better than you are reading it!!! i cant find anything disallowing a bike from scouting 24"
my personal favorite from the New Dex is the Ironclad dred in a drop pod, the Ironclad will have 2 heavy flamers, or maybe keep a multi melta for anti tank.. this Dreadnaugh can easily take on full squads when it comes down, leveling one squad in flames, then charging in. I would also recomend a Deathwind missle launcher, as the ironclad needs close proximity to work effectively, the close range for the missles can really unleash hell
Exactly, i thought it would have the same effect as lasguns, but it kept doing crap in my test rolls no matter how much I would want to like them.
Anyway, 2 heavy flamers will spell hell for horde armies, if 2 on one model its even better. I were to fight orks again I would take a dread tih plasma cannon and heavy flamer, then a Baal predator with Heavy Flamers. That alone is one blast, 3 heavy flamers and a twin assault cannon. Which is why outflanking razorbacks with Twin Heavy Flamers is made of win.
4th ed scout bikers diden't have infiltrate, just scouts, wasen't as good as it could have been.
OK so you can't scout within 12" of enemy units. Right. Forgot about that little detail but let's not discount this just yet.
Scout+Infiltrate gets you absolutely anywhere you want that is 12" away from the enemy. Then the drop pods come down exactly 6" closer, deploy 2" and do their thing from 4" away. Maybe less considering base and pod sizes.
I think one of the most brutal 1st turns you can have against hordes is going to involve precise deep strikes of several twin heavy flamer Ironclads. I would also suggest switching to chainfists on the ironclad. I haven't done the math yet but I think more penetrating hits is better than +1 to the damage roll if you get a hit.
Edit: And for defencive playing, perfectly placed drop pod walls restricting movement between area terrain (area terrain full of cluster mines of course).
Last edited by prose.; 30-09-2008 at 12:17.
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