Tactica - Space Marines

[Freman Bloodglaive]

Well done Reece. That's a very good result with an army you've only started playing with.

I like the "air army" aspect of the bike list. Basically against slower armies (which is virtually everyone except Dark Eldar) you determine when and where (and if) you engage with the enemy.

I hope you had better luck with your melta than I do. Without twin-linking I usually miss.

That's the reason most of my Dreadnoughts have two twin-linked auto-cannon. Without that I'd never hit anything.

One game I played against Eldar, I failed my first three saves with my Captain, and that was while he was in the command squad so he had FNP as well. Then when the command squad charged a squad of Dire Avengers they fluffed just about everything. Only the Apothecary actually killed anything over the course of that game.

As you say though, it's great having a squad that is only there to chop things up.

If only they could climb into buildings.

[Gondorian]

Just from my experiences using bikers (although as a ravenwing force rather than vanilla) you need some kind of support who aren't on bikes. Whether these are dreads, jump packs or simple power armoured marines is up to you.
The reason being some enemies will see your force and decide to put their objective on the third floor of a ruin. Obviously bikes can't climb, so you need something capable of getting there and taking that position.
I tend to like a tac squad in a rhino as its fairly mobile and has been pretty decent at storming such positions.

[Glenn87]

nice to see the 'bike' list did great!!

So guys, wich types of competitive lists do C:SM have right now:

* The Bike list
* Vulkan's list
*...Any others??

And wich one do you guys think is the strongest??

[Kelanen]

Also MotF and 6 Dreads, and probably the strongest is the generic spam list: Librarian, 3x Rifleman Dread, 3x MM/HF Speeder, 3x Pred, Termies and Troops to taste...

[ashc]

Yes, those were going to be my additions. Firepower is where it is at.

[Glenn87]

So the generic Spam-list is the 'better' out of the 4 lists??

[Kelanen]

I would say the generic 'spam' list for want of a better title is the best, then Vulkan. I'd put bike and dread lists behind those two.

[Carnage]

So the generic Spam-list is the 'better' out of the 4 lists??

I don't think so. I think Vulcan is a notch above the rest, but even that is a mid-tier list overall.

[dangermouse425]

At what points level do you consider 6 dreads competitive? What makes it so?
I'm a big fan of dreads, but surely you're limiting yourself by taking so many?
What else do you take besides 6 dreads that makes the list viable?

[Kelanen]

I think the 'good stuff' (or spam) list is better, but Vulkan is strong too - probably a metagame choice. In both cases they are near the top of Tier 2.

6 Dreads needs to be at least a 1750/1850 game I think. I certainly wouldn't go there in 1500. It can be limiting, it can be hard to stop. The idea like any spam list is to overload limited resources in one area, and Dreads have the advantage of being able to deal with anything, and to be able tarpit a lot of units in combat. The flipside is whilst they can potentially deal with anything, they are actually pretty slow to deal with any number of infantry...

[ashc]

Vulkan is good, but bear in mind he really changes how the marine army fights. Instead of bringing heavy firepower from backfield Vulkan forces you to play a far closer, in-your-face list. Whilst the list's power at this range is amplified, you have to remember you have traded in Combat Tactics for the abilities, which means if your opponent survives, then you will have difficulty in escaping.

Most people forget this, and it's how good players can beat Vulkan lists.

[The Marshel]

I don't think so. I think Vulcan is a notch above the rest, but even that is a mid-tier list overall.

i think vulcan is best, but that fact is obscured by how easy it is to put Vulcan in your list, load up with flamers and meltas and think you've made a good competitive list with just that. Spam list is hard to muck up, vulcan list still requires you to actually think about writing you're army list, so there are simply more people doing it wrong then there are people doing the span list wrong.

[Crimson Templar]

Anyone here still spam with land raiders? I was thinking of building a list for a 2000 point tourney in Feb. 2 godhammers and a redeemer. I am going to run my Ultramarines so I may use Calgar. Any thoughts?

[Techpriest]

Anyone here still spam with land raiders? I was thinking of building a list for a 2000 point tourney in Feb. 2 godhammers and a redeemer. I am going to run my Ultramarines so I may use Calgar. Any thoughts?

I had a regular at My LGS who played a 2k list with great success using the following.

2 God hammer LR w/ 5 Scouts in each (For scoring units and Long range support)
1 Redeemer w/ 5 Scouts (For AI support and moving to help claim Objectives)

1 Redeemer W/MMelta w/ 5 TH/SS Terminators And HQ (For Assault and AT support)

2 Dreads w/ MM/HFlamer in Drop Pods. (For a first turn disruption in the enemy lines. And a late support Dread)

He ran them to great success in Tournaments. The Amount of AV 14 on the Table as well as the Long rabge support was amazing in his hands.

[ashc]

As long as you field more than one land raider they can still perform relatively well.

[Crimson Templar]

I'll toy around with it and post a list in the proper place.

[Glenn87]

i think vulcan is best, but that fact is obscured by how easy it is to put Vulcan in your list, load up with flamers and meltas and think you've made a good competitive list with just that. Spam list is hard to muck up, vulcan list still requires you to actually think about writing you're army list, so there are simply more people doing it wrong then there are people doing the span list wrong.

So what would you say a good Vulkan list would need? Because right now, my army is a bit of a mix between normal spam and Vulkan. And as I'm playing Salamanders, I'd love to go to just Vulkan...

[angelofrage]

Talking about powers for librarians, what do people normally take? I find it hard to not take Null Zone, but then always struggle with the 2nd choice.

My librarian normally runs in terminator armour with a storm shield along with a squad of assault terminators in a LR crusader, thrown forward to hit the enemy hard. In the past i've taken Might of the Ancients, Smite or Avenger.

What powers do you guys normally take?

[Freman Bloodglaive]

Talking about powers for librarians, what do people normally take? I find it hard to not take Null Zone, but then always struggle with the 2nd choice.

My librarian normally runs in terminator armour with a storm shield along with a squad of assault terminators in a LR crusader, thrown forward to hit the enemy hard. In the past i've taken Might of the Ancients, Smite or Avenger.

What powers do you guys normally take?

Librarian on bike or in terminator armour. Null zone and vortex (because of relentless).
Librarian in power armour. Null zone and avenger.

[Volandum]

You could also use Gate as a Plan B if you need to move elsewhere.