Tactica - Space Marines

[Glenn87]

Agree with the above, if you're going to shell out for Kantor you need to take advantage of his abilities- Sternguard with 3 attacks suddenly are a decent all rounder. Personally I'd get 3 large sternguard units, a tactical and a scout squad (maybe 2 scout squads) and play to Kantors strengths.

and what about Predators or other long-range fire support?

[samiens]

Apologies, I should have stated I'd do the above with fire support as in any marine list- though I probably wouldn't play Kantor at a level where I had to choose Sternguard or Preds/other support as he's a buff rather than a Deathstar (which of course paradoxically work best in the smallest game you can bring them to.)

[Glenn87]

so this would be better?

175 Pedro Kantor

335 10 Sternguards: 10 Combi-Melta’s, Rhino
335 10 Sternguards: 10 Combi-Melta’s, Rhino
335 10 Sternguards: 10 Combi-Melta’s, Rhino

220 10 Tactical Marines: Meltagun, Lascannon, Rhino
85 5 Scouts: Sniper Rifles, Missile Launcher

120 Predator: ACLC
120 Predator: ACLC
120 Predator: ACLC
+------
1845


I could drop some of the combi-melta's for Heavy Flamers in the squads (of Missile Launchers??)

[orik]

I know it's not technically out yet, but what does everyone think about the Storm talon?
I'm thinking about replacing some bikers and a speeder with one oo

so far rules are meant to be

Space Marine Storm talon Gunship
130pts + upgrades

BS4 AV11
Fast Skimmer
Supersonic
Aerial Assault
Ceramite Plating
Deep Strike
No transporting ability

Comes with Twin linked Assault Cannons and a Twin linked Heavy Bolter than can be upgraded to the following
Twin linked Lascannon
Typhoon Missile Launcher
Sky Hammer Missile Launcher 60" S7 AP4 Heavy 3

Escort Craft
Can be attached to a unit of deep strikers, and will appear within 6" of the deep striking unit
Hover Strike
Can convert to a skimmer but not move in order to receive a +1 to BS

[Carnage]

Borderline forum rule breaking posting the rules.

IMO, it depends how the Escort craft rule is worded. If you can "attach" to a pod coming in turn 1, then it will make a decent alpha-strike toy. Otherwise you are looking at something the cost of a predator that faster, has comparable firepower and 11 AV instead of 13. So trades armor for speed.

Not bad for vanilla marine lists that are generally slow as dirt with their virtually immobile predators, but that's it. It's not an "OMFG so good" choice, and I'd even go so far as to say that typhoon speeders, AC/LC preds and rifle-dreads are better for the points. It might find a home in bike lists, as at least you are getting decent firepower without being immobile, but the standard Vulkan/gunline list has little use for it.

[BrainFireBob]

Escort disallows DS. Consensus on what to escort? I'm favoring speeders. Oooh, or the storm eagle.

[daismith906]

Got my 1st game vs daemons tomorrow night 2000pts against a mono khorne list.

What units/tactics would be best to use?

Cheers

[Reece]

Hmm... Take LOTS of Assault Marines and Scouts with CC Weapons! Don't take any vehicles!

*sneaks back to his Daemon shrine*

-Reece

[Glenn87]

Got my 1st game vs daemons tomorrow night 2000pts against a mono khorne list.

What units/tactics would be best to use?

Cheers

Unless I missed the sarcasm in Reece's post, ignore what he said.

Know that Daemons always Deep Strike, 1/2 of them on turn 1. The Khorne Daemone also all have Power Weapons, so you DON'T want to be in combat with them
I'd just take alot of shooting stuff. Basic Marine Bolters might even be good here, as well as a Librarian with Null Zone (let them re-roll their inv Saves). you'll want to have some heavy weapons for his Bloodthirster tough.

How many points are you playing?

[Nostro]

Unless I missed the sarcasm in Reece's post, ignore what he said.

The sarcasm is quite hard to miss

[Glenn87]

The sarcasm is quite hard to miss

yeah, after re-reading his post, it became clear.
I answered that one right after I woke up, sorry Reece

[stereynolds]

Got my 1st game vs daemons tomorrow night 2000pts against a mono khorne list.

What units/tactics would be best to use?

Cheers

In the current meta (special character modding chapter tactics aside) Vanilla marines do gunline the best I've found. Specifically against mono khorne build my prefernces are:

Librarian - Null Zone - As mentioned above for forcing them to re-roll saves.

Dakka Predators (force them to make A LOT of saves).

Tactical Squads with either missile laucnher, palsma cannons or even (for once) heavy bolters and plasmaguns. Put them in a rhino so the palsmagun and heavy weapon can fire out of the top. If you need to move the plasmagun and the sergeant (combi weapon maybe) or another tactical amrine cans till shoot. Keeps you safe from power weapons for a turn.

Dreadnought? Maybe a high WS AV 13 Ironclad with dual heavy flamers could be useful. Gives the option to laydown 2 flamer template before engaging the daemons in assault they'll find hard to win.

[stereynolds]

Oh dear...What have I done...

[Glenn87]

In the current meta (special character modding chapter tactics aside) Vanilla marines do gunline the best I've found. Specifically against mono khorne build my prefernces are:

Librarian - Null Zone - As mentioned above for forcing them to re-roll saves.

Dakka Predators (force them to make A LOT of saves).

Tactical Squads with either missile laucnher, palsma cannons or even (for once) heavy bolters and plasmaguns. Put them in a rhino so the palsmagun and heavy weapon can fire out of the top. If you need to move the plasmagun and the sergeant (combi weapon maybe) or another tactical amrine cans till shoot. Keeps you safe from power weapons for a turn.

Dreadnought? Maybe a high WS AV 13 Ironclad with dual heavy flamers could be useful. Gives the option to laydown 2 flamer template before engaging the daemons in assault they'll find hard to win.

Against Daemons, I'd take AC/HB Preds, And Missile Launchers/Flamers on the Tactical Squads.
Even a Vindicator might be decent.

Thing is, Daemons don't have acces to transports, so that makes Templates alot better.
Do make a priority of getting rid of the Bloodcrushers and Bloodthirster first. And remember, if you don't shoot them the first turn they land, they'll probally eat you the next.

[ChaplainCharlie]

I don't know how hard or far-reaching Demon firepower is, so I would recommend Land Speeders. Though fragile, you can easily just turbo-boost first turn to get a guaranteed cover save and then just stay away from the rest of his army whilst showering it with Frag or Krak missiles and heavy bolter fire...

The riskiest part comes when the demons drop down, but speeding your speeders across the table if you get first turn would force him either to commit a unit to dealing with them, a long-range shooting unit (if he has any) or risk them sitting out of reach and throwing a torrent of fire at his army.

In general, I would imagine (no real experience vs demons so take with salt) that dividing your force in two could be useful so that they can each support oneanother with long range dakka and force him to divide his forces as they arrive or let your army remain unmolested. If he divides his first (and probably biggest drop) then you should be more capable of dealing with it, my suggestion being to kill one half and have your half of the army able to remain intact while the other takes the beating. Don't get bogged down!

Rapid-fire weapons with S5+ would be the name of the game and anything that can either ignore them in combat or run away. So not a lot of CC troops, unless TH/SS Termies are considered.

[Reece]

yeah, after re-reading his post, it became clear.
I answered that one right after I woke up, sorry Reece

Hehe... no problems.

I don't know how hard or far-reaching Demon firepower is, so I would recommend Land Speeders. Though fragile, you can easily just turbo-boost first turn to get a guaranteed cover save and then just stay away from the rest of his army whilst showering it with Frag or Krak missiles and heavy bolter fire...

The LONGEST range they have is 36" in a S8 Large Blast and that only come on a Soul Grinder. I don't see those on the table too often (Khorne might use em though to cover for the utter lack of shooting). Short of that, the longest range you'll see is a 24" S8 AP1. It only comes on Tzeentch though. So that leaves the 12"(?) S7 shot that you can add to the Bloodthirster.

Anyway... you wont see much shooting. Stay in your Rhinos, use Null Zone and shoot em. Speeders are great. Preds... not as much, only because they are so easily eaten by Deep Striking Infantry. Granted, you'll kill some after they drop because they're not assaulting right away, but it doesn't take more then a couple of Bloodletters to take one down.

Mono-Khorne is rough because of the lack of shooting. Oddly enough, it's AWESOME against Grey Knights.

-Reece

[Glenn87]

Mono-Khorne is rough because of the lack of shooting. Oddly enough, it's AWESOME against Grey Knights.

-Reece

really? How so??
I'd think that with all of GK's shooting, once they deep strike, the GK's will kill a whole bunch, then assault them (or, get assaulted) and kill even more with the Halberds before the Daemons get to strike back. And with Re-rolls (Prefered Enemy) and all...

[ChaplainCharlie]

Invulnerable saves don't care about power weapons, many things are still 1W, so force is useless. Hammerhand could be a bane, but if they all buy halberds, the cost goes up quickly. Also, demon shooting is very deadly against GK with the strength and AP to threathen Dreds, Termies and PA. If the right units get stuck in quick, the limited numbers of GK marines should quickly begin to suffer...

However, if I were a GK general, I would maybe buy some interceptors and after the initial deep strike, shunt myself clear and just jump around and gun them with psybolts... XD

[Glenn87]

Invulnerable saves don't care about power weapons, many things are still 1W, so force is useless. Hammerhand could be a bane, but if they all buy halberds, the cost goes up quickly. Also, demon shooting is very deadly against GK with the strength and AP to threathen Dreds, Termies and PA. If the right units get stuck in quick, the limited numbers of GK marines should quickly begin to suffer...

However, if I were a GK general, I would maybe buy some interceptors and after the initial deep strike, shunt myself clear and just jump around and gun them with psybolts... XD

yeah, but he said mono-khorne, so to me, that's no S8 AP1 bolt of changes...
Mono-Khorne to me is: Bloodletters, Bloodthirsters, Bloodcrushers, Deamon prince of Khorne and possibly a Soul Grinder.

[Freman Bloodglaive]

Blessings of the Blood God gives a 2+ invulnerable save against force weapons.