5.0 Tactica - Tau Empire

[Masudo]

Fireknife is pretty standard, I like to switch it up every now and then and swap out the plasma with the burst cannon, and pump out more firepower

[TheMav80]

I have taken to specializing my suit squads. So I take a squad of all TL plasma and a Squad of all TL missiles.

Then I might take a bodyguard of fireknives.

[BajsArne]

I´m curious what people see in TL plasma? Ok, making back its point is not everything, but that is one configuration that sounds like it would never even be close to doing it.

[TheMav80]

Works out great for me.

I give them targeting arrays too, so 6 BS4, rerolling misses S6 AP2 shots kills quite a few Marines. Mainly Terminators which is what I send them after.

Granted they are often wasted against Orks, but I don't face them as often.

[Dementedlytwisted]

i cant see a 3 man squad of TLPlasma ever being able to get within rapid fire range without getting pummeled by their guns. giant f'ning target on their back is what i say

[Wisdom like silence]

i cant see a 3 man squad of TLPlasma ever being able to get within rapid fire range without getting pummeled by their guns. giant f'ning target on their back is what i say

No and this is one of the reasons that Tau aren't competitive in 5th - they don't have any effective, efficient method for dealing with MEQs that isn't also suicidal.

[WinglessVT2]

You need the plasma/missile combo to unmount people in rhinos.

[TheMav80]

I manage to do it okay. It depends on the terrain that is around. If you are, say, 15 inches away and behind something that blocks line of sight...no problem. Hop out, blast away, hop away.

I'm not saying it is perfect, but it worked out great for me in 4th, and is okay now in 5th.

If points is the problem, having a missile pod AND plasma rifle is 2 more points than TL plasma. I don't know. I never liked having one weapon that worked within 12" and another that was better staying at far range. Then to get the most out of it you add a MultiTracker, which means you don't have a target array. So I started specializing. My Squad of TL missile pods goes after light armour and my squad of TL plasma goes after Terminators, then MEQs, then light armour.

Normally my commanders have the MP/PR combo, they already have a good BS and can take MTs hardwired.

[BajsArne]

I just skip plasma totally. Too easy to get cover these days, at least at the tables I play.

[Hokiecow]

I just skip plasma totally. Too easy to get cover these days, at least at the tables I play.

I can turn it away. It's the next best weapon that has high Str and range to complement the MPs. If I could take two MPs w/o them being twinlinked I would do that instead but alas it's not an option. :-(

[SabrX]

Plasma is great for armor save denial. Use volume to whither away infantry numbers and finish the rest with plasma.

And next to Railguns and Ion Cannons, it's our third best ranged arsenal against the new Nid threat.

[polymphus]

The armylists subforum might be a better place to post that and get responses. The list needs a lot of work though; vespid in particular are a massive point sink that'll do nothing but give your enemy free kills. Some quick thoughts...

-Drop the thrusters on the 'El. There's no real reason to be getting a guy like that into combat in the first place so hit and run is a wasted ability.
-Transports for the fire warriors are a must. Even against necrons, foot FWs are too slow.
-Plasma Rifle+burst cannon might be better as Fireknife or Helios 'suits as burst cannons rarely make their points back vs MeQs.
-Vespid flat out suck. If you insist on using them, never take more than a single unit.
-'crons struggle against vehicles. Use this to your advantage. Devilfish are overpriced, but they're still a very good transport and even better against space undead.

In general against necrons you want to be mobile and good at range while being able to hold them up in CC. Kroot (with lots of hounds) are an excellent idea and broadsides (with plasma rifle+multitracker if you can spare the points) are worth their weight in gold. Mount up as much as you can and have deep strikers/outflankers to appear around the back and disrupt his plans.

Poly

[SabrX]

Necrons are tough as nails. With 3+ and 4+ WBB, they are almost like Terminators! Fortunately their shooting is weak sauce, they are composed of mostly foot-sloggers, and many of them aren't fearless.

While it's a hit & miss tactic, Pathfinders + Sniper Teams are great for pinning using makerlight reduced leadership.

-Be wary of Viel Darkness Lord + 20 Necron Warriors.
-Try to shoot down any Destroyers or Heavy Destroyers first.
-Park your Devilfish or Piranhas in front of their foot-infantry to reduce movement.

[horsa]

I have been taking fireknives now for some time and although they are not always the most efficient combination they tend to be a jack of all trades combination. At 1500 points, most of my V8 teams consist of 2 suits and 2 drones. The drones are normally effective soakers. Unfortunately, unless you plan to mix it up with the opponent, there is very little else that can fire from the first turn usually. MPs are standard on all the suits I use and have so far proven to be the most effective weapon, purely because of the number of shots. At closer range the PR can start to do some real damage on tougher targets.

Kroot are a must as well for me. They are cheap units that can either flank or screen. They have often saved me in objective games where I was pinned close to my board edge, while trying to keep the opponents forces out of the gun line. FW in DF can also be useful but they can easily become a target and put on foot before you are ready.

I have tried putting Kroot in DF but if the DF is blown up, the no saving throw can really hurt.

As to the list, I agree that the thrusters need to go. I really like the Vespids and they have proven a nice surprise coming on from reserve. This works against players who are not familiar with them and have an attacking, close combat army. Thus the Vespeds can move on, shoot and even cc if it makes sense. However, I agree that they are a points sink and should not be take as a standard nor for tournaments. I would add drones to your suit teams and increase the number of V8s or 88s. Reduce the number of FW to 2 teams and use the pathfinder DF to transport them. Split the PF into 2 teams if needs be and add another DF. Some players might increase the number of PF too. I usually make my DF, warfish. Not everyone would agree with that though. One thing to remember is that the PF do have carbines and sometimes these can be useful to try and cause a pin or if you need to move them.

One thing is for certain, each player has their own style of play and no matter what may work for one, may not work for another. It is not uncommon for Tau players to lose quite a bit when they first start to play, until they find the combination that works for them.

[Wisdom like silence]

I really like the Vespids and they have proven a nice surprise coming on from reserve. This works against players who are not familiar with them and have an attacking, close combat army. Thus the Vespeds can move on, shoot and even cc if it makes sense. However, I agree that they are a points sink and should not be take as a standard nor for tournaments.

One thing is for certain, each player has their own style of play and no matter what may work for one, may not work for another. It is not uncommon for Tau players to lose quite a bit when they first start to play, until they find the combination that works for them.

Just curious, how do you avoid having your vespids get charged and die after they get close enough to fire? I've never played them but I never really understood how that was ever supposed to work out positively.

Also, I really have to disagree with your last statement there. I see this a lot when people are talking about 40k, and it just isn't true. The only variable that determines what will work for a player is what other armies he's playing against. There's a right way to play 40k, and there's a wrong way - it's not a deep game. Any player playing the right way will meet the same amount of success as another playing in the same manner, provided they are playing against similar local metagames.

[Leunam]

So since I'm jumping on to Tau I wanted to ask some questions. I tried reading through the thread but since it's grown so large I feel it may be easier to get opinions this way:

1. Are mech Tau no longer played much? I see less and less mech lists now than back in 4th.

2. Are there still competitive lists? Ultimately, I just want to play and have a good time, but I'm curious as to whether Tau have still have a strong competitive edge.

3. Stealth suits. I'm planning on fielding a squad of 3-4 but much like mech lists, I see less and less of them all the time. What are your opinions on them?

[Wisdom like silence]

My sense of the Tau metagame is skewed - I see less and less of Tau at all, and I've never really seen an effective, competitive non-mech Tau army. I suppose you could be seeing more kroot-heavy armies, then?

I feel confident, in any case, of saying that Tau do not have a strong competitive edge. Primarily, Tau lack a few vital things:
1. Abundance of effective transport killing options: TLMP crisis suits are alright, but are expensive and horribly vulnerable to mech assault armies. Hammerheads are very overcosted.
2. Fast, useful troops. Kroot are useful but too squishy to score, and Fire Warriors are sturdy and mobile enough to score but too weak to be useful otherwise.
3. Reliable heavy anti-tank. Railguns do the job well, but you either field Hammerheads, which miss too much and have too few shots for their points, or Broadsides, which get squashed by assaulters quick-like and are not nearly mobile enough.

[polymphus]

WiS, what I think you're missing here is that a good Tau player doesn't need those things. 2/3 of games are objective based, wherein keeping enemy troops occupied is just as effective as killing them. In KP missions, it's simply a matter of taking out the units you can and keeping the rest of your army alive. We were the kings of VP denial in the 4th, and we're still damn good at KP denial when we need to be.

@Leunam.

1 and 2: Two birds with one stone there; Mech Tau are the only really competitive build out there. So yes they're played a lot, and yes there's a competitive build, which is mech.
3: Stealth suits are uncommon not because they're bad, but simply because XV8s are better. There's not a lot stealth suits can do that fire warriors or crisis teams can't do better. If you like them use then but be aware they're a suboptimal unit.

[Codsticker]

The armylists subforum might be a better place to post that and get responses.

Indeed. In fact, we are monitoring the Tactica threads a little more closely in an attempt to keep them tidy and will be deleting any "Army List" posts as we come across them or they are reported.

If you post an Army List in the Army List forum and do not get much in the way of responses, feel free to post here with a link to the thread and then any discussion regarding that list and tactics for it can take place there.

Codsticker

The Warseer Mod Squad

[Tykinkuula]

No and this is one of the reasons that Tau aren't competitive in 5th - they don't have any effective, efficient method for dealing with MEQs that isn't also suicidal.

I've had great succes with massed shield drones. Nearly every opponent of mine has cursed them at least ocne during the game. Sure, they cost a ton and you can't get nearly as many suits as without all those drones, but hey, in my experience the survivability is increased so much that they have time to shoot more during the game that those two droneless squads would.

Did I meantion I always run a squad or two with twin-linked flamers and another weapon of choice? I've always been inconventional, and nearly always seen the highest overall succes rates of the TAU players out there. (I never saw the big deal with FoF for example. Crap tactic, IMHO)