5.0 Tactica - Tau Empire

[Leunam]

Thanks for the input, guys.

[scarvet]

No and this is one of the reasons that Tau aren't competitive in 5th - they don't have any effective, efficient method for dealing with MEQs that isn't also suicidal.

On the flip side, you are not screw by cover save.
If there is something Necrons afraid of Tau, it would be the Deathrain as they spell death to Destroyers, Heavy Destroyer and Scarabs.

Broadside team can easily dispatch Monolith.

Kroot strike before warrior in CC, perfect speed bumps.

[Tau_player001]

1 and 2: Two birds with one stone there; Mech Tau are the only really competitive build out there. So yes they're played a lot, and yes there's a competitive build, which is mech.

Mech is far from being a competitive list, atleast on my metagame. Indeed most tanks are totally overcosted for their use (including the hammerhead). Kroot, deathrains and broadside are the way to go for me.

[Kaptin Jackboot]

1 and 2: Two birds with one stone there; Mech Tau are the only really competitive build out there. So yes they're played a lot, and yes there's a competitive build, which is mech.
3: Stealth suits are uncommon not because they're bad, but simply because XV8s are better. There's not a lot stealth suits can do that fire warriors or crisis teams can't do better. If you like them use then but be aware they're a suboptimal unit.

I am curious what build you are talking about? Do you mind sending me a competitive tournament tau army list by PM or put one up in the army lists forum (or here if mods allow it).

[Wisdom like silence]

it goes something like

cheap HQ, plasma/missile
more suits, plasma/missile, maybe 2 squads of 3
3-4 minimum size fire warrior squads in devilfish with disruption pods
some kroot, depending on how you roll
as many hammerheads as you can buy

at ~1500 points.

[Grinder]

Hi all,

Off to AL subforum

[scarvet]

Why fireknife when you can get deathrain?
A couple of Boardside with shield drones are solid anti-tank choice as well.
Maybe a couple of piranhas for alpha strike?

[dahli.llama]

Hello!

I currently play Eldar, but I'm thinking of starting a new army. A friend of mine is willing to sell me his small collection of Tau (basically a battleforce plus some extras) and Tau has always been interesting to me.

What I'm curious of, though, is how the Tau play. I haven't really played against Tau all that much, and my Eldar is heavily mechanized, so I'd like an army that's a bit different. I really like the look of the Crisis Suite and Broadsides, so they would feature heavily in my army. This seems pretty typical.

Would an army with very few tanks (maybe a devilfish or two for troops) be viable? How do Tau play? Is is mostly sitting back and shooting? Any pointers would be appreciated.

[SabrX]

Three common ways to play Tau is static, mech, and hybrid. With static there's more emphasize on range and less on mobility. Usually there will be a strong gunline of Fire Warriors supported by Crisis Suits and Pathfinders. Broadsides are the basis to anti-tank. But like all static armies, they are vulnerable to deep strike, outflank, or to very mobile units (jump, bikes, fast vehicles). Normally cheap meat shields such as Kroots would act as a buffer for to intercept anything that threatens your gunline. You may even field a Piranha or a Devilfish to act as a speed bump against non-skimmer vehicles or march block a huge mobs of Boyz. The downside to fielding nothing but static units is inability to capture objectives on your opponent's side of the table.

The alternative is concentration on mech. There's more emphasized on vehicles and Crisis Suits. Each Fire Warrior squad starts out in their own Devilfish. Pirnahas and Hammerheads are common. How you use your mechanized Fire Warriors depends on your play style. Some prefer min-Fire Warrior Squads inside a Devilfish upgraded with Multi-Tracker, Targeting Array, Smart Missile System, Disruption Pod, and Flechette. This is commonly referred to as Warfish where the main weapon is the Devilfish while the min-Fire Warrior stays within the safe confines of their tranport keeping it scoring. Others prefer max Fire Warrior Squads inside a Devilfish with bare-minimum upgrades such as default Sponson Gun Drones and Disruption Pod. This setup is commonly referred to as Fish of Fury where the Devilfish will drive close to enemy infantry, disembarking the Fire Warriors, who will then rapid fire Pule Rifles. If done correctly, you can make it so that the opposing unit fired upon will not be able to assault your disembarked Fire Warriors due to the wide front hull of your Devilfish. Of course you could field a supped up Devilfish and full squad of Fire Warriors, but it's expensive in points.

Another widely popular way of playing Tau is mixing both static and mech units. I personally like fielding 2 Hammerheads, squad of Broadsides, Warfish or FoF squads, single unit of Kroots, small squad of Pathfinders, and a plethora of Crisis Suits. My army is flexible enough depending on my opponent. I could go all out mech-assault or I can stay back with full strength Fire Warrior squads.

[dahli.llama]

Thanks for the info.

Now this may have been covered, but I haven't read through the entire thread. What are the benefits to Hammerheads vs. Broadsides? Is it the movement? It seems to me that Broadsides would be able to take advantage of cover better and have a lower likelihood of dying to a single shot.

[WinglessVT2]

Hammerhead is pretty much invulnerable to assault, immune to leadership, and can put out large blasts if you need it.

Broadsides hit more often, but tend to charge you more in points, and draw fire like crazy.
They don't stand up as well to it, and don't have a truly useful secondary weapons system, since they can't use both to target different units.

For me, personally, the big kicker is that you can block line of sight to your battlesuits with the hammerhead, while the broadsides are just another unit that you need to block line of sight to.
Plus they aren't very mobile, and have no way to escape people who are really determined to assault them.

[SabrX]

Hammerheads with Target Lock and Burst Cannons are extremely useful. It offers flexibility by providing fire support against enemy infantry while simultaneously blasting enemy armor at range. Being a Skimmer with Multi-Tracker, front AV13, and Disruption Pod, it's arguably one of toughest vehicles to take out in 40k.

Broadsides are more reliable in the role as anti-tank. With TL-Railgun, you'll hit 75% of the time as opposed to 67% with a Hammerhead BS4 Railgun. If you field them in squads with target lock, you have a force multiplier. A unit capable of shooting different targets. However 5th ed grants vehicle cover save if they are obscure or in the case of fast skimmers, moving flat out. To reliably pop an enemy tank, it sometimes requires volume of shots or lower cover saves with Markerlight.

Another option for anti-tank is Piranha with a fusion gun. While not reliable as a Broadside or Hammerhead, it can reach targets that are difficult to shoot with range. Basilisk with indirect fire, new Tyranid Hive Guards, etc... It also provides a unique support role in harrasing enemy models by blocking their movement, force pinning test from gun drones, tank-shocking, contesting objectives. And of course, it makes a nice addition to your anti-tank arsenal.

[polymphus]

Broadsides with plasma rifles and multitracker are much, much better than standard SMS/ASS ones. Once they've finished with heavy vehicles they can cut a swath through infantry and they make a nice little 12" death bubble in your backline. Deploy pathfinders behind them since markerlights don't allow cover saves and you have an excellent lure for kauyon armies. I've been working on perfecting the kauyon style. For the unitiated;

-Use a lure to draw the enemy in, them use mobile units to crush them. The codex recommends using kroot or fire warriors but they're not nearly tough enough to survive concentrated shooting. Here's my list for reference;

+++

Helios Shas'El
3 deathrains
2 Helios
2 units of 12 Fire Warriors in warfish
2 units of kroot w. hounds
Hammerhead
Skyray
Plasma broadsides

@1750pts

+++

The broadsides act as bait, usually placed in the middle of my deployment zone for better firing lanes, avoiding flankers and attracting enemy attention. They're absurdly good at weathering the enemy shooting phase, but even then it's the rest of the army's job to nuke the enemy's AP2 to prevent them getting outshot. The kroot and fire warriors hold up enemies so any would be assault units are split up and isolated. Once this happens, the mobile units converge on the enemy and systematically eliminate them. An alternative to this has the skyray and some of the upgrades cut for a unit of pathfinders. This one's like this because I play in a more friendly environment where I can use things like the skyray for kicks.

It's experimental and I need to play a lot more games with it to fully get the tactics down but I think it has promise and it's a very effective and fun way to play hybrid tau.

@jackboot, I'll try and PM you a competitive mech list with notes later today.

[Tau_player001]

Broadsides with plasma rifles and multitracker are much, much better than standard SMS ones. Once they've finished with heavy vehicles they can cut a swath through infantry and they make a nice little 12" death bubble in your backline. Deploy pathfinders behind them since markerlights don't allow cover saves and you have an excellent lure for kauyon armies. I've been working on perfecting the kauyon style. For the unitiated;

Yep, and at 24'' they are 3 PR shots and 3 Rail, everything linked. It's worth those extra 10 points from my point of view.

[scarvet]

What was the rule about not post your list in Tactica but put it armylist section add as a link in tactica?

Yes, I can see that working, but I think you would want Target Lock on the broadside leader to deal with mech more effective.

Does anyone being question if the railgun on broadside count as a "weapon system" for the purpose of multi-tracker?

[polymphus]

What was the rule about not post your list in Tactica but put it armylist section add as a link in tactica?

As an example. I don't really want criticism on the list itself; I want thoughts on the tactics. I could edit it with a post in ALs and a link if you'd like, but I thought that would be inelegant and as I said, I don't want thoughts on the list. Sorry about the lack of clarification. I've edited it into the more acceptable tactics forum style.

[Tau_player001]

Does anyone being question if the railgun on broadside count as a "weapon system" for the purpose of target lock?

Hmm that's interesting, but neither the SMS or TL-PR for the broadsides are listed as "weapon system" neither.

[SabrX]

As an example. I don't really want criticism on the list itself; I want thoughts on the tactics. I could edit it with a post in ALs and a link if you'd like, but I thought that would be inelegant and as I said, I don't want thoughts on the list. Sorry about the lack of clarification. I've edited it into the more acceptable tactics forum style.

Codsticker has been cracking down on army lists in tactica threads.
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showth...76#post4377776 (he was quoting you)
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showth...80#post4382780
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showth...56#post4377756
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showth...68#post4377668
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showth...68#post4375768

In any case, the mods prefer you post an army list under the army list section and link it in the thread section.

[polymphus]

Is the rough outline still acceptable? I note it's turned up quite a few times in this tactica without comment. Most recent example;

it goes something like

cheap HQ, plasma/missile
more suits, plasma/missile, maybe 2 squads of 3
3-4 minimum size fire warrior squads in devilfish with disruption pods
some kroot, depending on how you roll
as many hammerheads as you can buy

at ~1500 points.

If the list build is important in the tactical discussion then surely it warrants inclusion? Even ATT allow that and you know how strict their moderation policy is. I've edited it down to an outline to help further my point that the list is not as important as its application. Can we get back to discussion hybrid lists now? Maybe another thread or a split for talk about list posting?

[SabrX]

You'll have to ask Cod.

Thank the Emperor they haven't banned army lists in the battle report section. That would be awful.