5.0 Tactica - Tau Empire

[SageoftheTimes]

8-10 Fire Knife is not enough to deal with 60 Assault Marines, 3 Sanguinary Priest w/ Jump Pack, Mephiston, and a Librarian w/ Jump Pack. Furthermore, Jump Infantry is harder to counter with Bubble Wrap because they have the ability to jump over Kroot bubblewrap.

So castle up tighter, or run that 5 x kroot army you like? xD
Shouldn't be too hard to do it right.

Sorry if it sounded like I was jumping on you, consider it post BA Battle Traumatic Disorder.
I know that we need the Fireknives, but I insisted on the fact that just adding more at the expense of a better wrapping would not work. It is my view that at one point we must reach a balance when facing DoA. I insist on one point, I find DoA armies that include Librarians the scarier. Seeing a cover save on a lot if not all of the BA MSU even when they are in the open severely damage the efficiency of our Crisis Teams. And dear God these damned lances and the damage they can do on a lucky range roll...

Wont stop your Pathfinders from removing it, though. Torrent the priest's squad, then deal with everything else.

Still a viable option I think as there are very few chances you won't have an unit of jumpers within 24". I agree that in an all comer list I'll prefer saving the 15 points and keeping SMS but I find that upgrading a Broadside leader is a way to tinker with a list so it can be slightly more anti DoA without severely damaging it's "all comers" status.

I'll post a decent list later today/tomorrow with a ton of suits that'll allow you to burn down anything without it. It's more that Broadsides are going to be way in the back, while pathfinders will be in the middle w/ vehicles and suits, so they wont get two shots, while suits will (so better to save for/upgrade the suits first for the additional power that they'll get beyond FNP/Nids).

[samiens]

Thing is even 10 fire knives will struggle to kill enough assault marines to make it work, thanks to DoA blood angels can drop 6 units, with combat squading, on top of you in turn 2. Even if you drop 15 fnp marines next turn (unlikely) that's still 3 units that will happily pull you apart in cc, often with enough fire support to make your wrapping Unix run exposing vital targets. Once the fireknives start dropping you've basically lost.

[SabrX]

Tau is like a meat grinder against DS armies, but combat squad BA resulting in 12X 5-man Assault Marine squads (possibly not all within FNP range) will be tough to neutralize before the next dangerous wave.

As SageoftheTimes mention, field a ton load of Kroot (100?) and create a defensive perimeter around the Broadsides and Fire Knife or castle into a tight corner. 100 Kroots deploying 2" apart including their 25mm base can cover 60.6" long line. Times that by 2.98 for width and you get a 180.59" area rectangle of 'no landing zone' bubble. Of course that's not enough to cover 3456" area of the entire table and neither is a 100 Kroot + 50 Hounds infiltrating (yes I tried it on a real table and I couldn't cover it all). However, it's a great deterrent to deep striking armies.

To prevent flank attacks reaching multiple Kroot squads, deploy Kroots within layers where the BA can't get no further than the front line, which could stall them for potentially 5 turns before they reach the tasty knot of Crisis Suits and Broadsides in the middle. Its highly likely the Kroots won't survive assault and will flee off the table, which leaves the BA open to getting shot up more by the Fire Knife suits.

[SageoftheTimes]

Thing is even 10 fire knives will struggle to kill enough assault marines to make it work, thanks to DoA blood angels can drop 6 units, with combat squading, on top of you in turn 2.

Which makes it even easier to get that libby at the juicy center of those groups (I assume 10 at 1.75k, 8 at 1.5k, and could probably fit in 12 or so in 2k). After that, they're foot marines in front of you. Using proper bubblewrap, all you've got to do is take down some foot marines within plasma double-tap range.

Even if you drop 15 fnp marines next turn (unlikely) that's still 3 units that will happily pull you apart in cc, often with enough fire support to make your wrapping Unix run exposing vital targets. Once the fireknives start dropping you've basically lost.

You've got a wall of kroot in front of you, which with proper placement, will take 2 turns to get through, if not more in SabrX's list. The point here is to fire with everything, focus on the libby, then spam small-arms fire when the libby is down on anything else you feel like killing. And sure, those kroot will die, but if the jumpers can't get past that first unit on assault #1, and second unit on assault #2, you've won. Probably just need some more hounds to pad-out that list. And if you can beat down some of the marines assaulting you in the process, it's a bonus.

[Carlosophy]

Tau is like a meat grinder against DS armies, but combat squad BA resulting in 12X 5-man Assault Marine squads (possibly not all within FNP range) will be tough to neutralize before the next dangerous wave.

As SageoftheTimes mention, field a ton load of Kroot (100?) and create a defensive perimeter around the Broadsides and Fire Knife or castle into a tight corner. 100 Kroots deploying 2" apart including their 25mm base can cover 60.6" long line. Times that by 2.98 for width and you get a 180.59" area rectangle of 'no landing zone' bubble. Of course that's not enough to cover 3456" area of the entire table and neither is a 100 Kroot + 50 Hounds infiltrating (yes I tried it on a real table and I couldn't cover it all). However, it's a great deterrent to deep striking armies.

To prevent flank attacks reaching multiple Kroot squads, deploy Kroots within layers where the BA can't get no further than the front line, which could stall them for potentially 5 turns before they reach the tasty knot of Crisis Suits and Broadsides in the middle. Its highly likely the Kroots won't survive assault and will flee off the table, which leaves the BA open to getting shot up more by the Fire Knife suits.

....at which point you may as well give up because you can ONLY win with such an absurd strategy sucking all fun out of the game.
If DSing AM are a problem hold your own suits in reserve and abuse the PR to make sure all his AM are on before you commit.

[SabrX]

....at which point you may as well give up because you can ONLY win with such an absurd strategy sucking all fun out of the game.
If DSing AM are a problem hold your own suits in reserve and abuse the PR to make sure all his AM are on before you commit.

I wouldn't have fun playing against 65 FNP Jump Marines, would you?

I'm just posting an effective strategy in how to deal with one of hardest armies against Tau. And its not the only way to win. There's a couple of other strategy such as mass Rail-rifle combined with markerlights for force pinning and mass Piranhas.

Also, DSing vs. DSing isn't an effective strategy. It's better off to deploy everything on the table and destroys your opponent's DSing units one at a time. That's why I made an analogy to a meat grinder. Tau is the meat grinder against DSing armies.

[Atropos]

Hello, Tau brothers.
I'm new to 40k, and new to Tau, and I'm making my 1500 points list, and would like to know if you could help me with it, please.

It looks like this right now:

SHASH'EL COMMANDER
Twin-Linked Missile Pods - Targeting Array - Hard-Wired Drone Controller: 2 Shield Drones

3 CRISIS
Plasma Rifles - Missile Pods - Multi-tracker

3 CRISIS
Plasma Rifles - Missile Pods - Multi-tracker

3 CRISIS
Twin-Linked Missile Pods - Targeting Array

6 FIRE WARRIORS
+ DEVILFISH

6 FIRE WARRIORS
+ DEVILFISH

8 FIRE WARRIORS

1 HAMMERHEAD
Railgun - Two Burst Cannons - Disruption Pod - Target Lock - Multi-tracker

1 HAMMERHEAD
Railgun - Two Burst Cannons - Disruption Pod - Target Lock - Multi-tracker

2 BROADSIDES
Advanced Stabilisation System


1499 points


Thank you!

[SageoftheTimes]

Hello, Tau brothers.
I'm new to 40k, and new to Tau, and I'm making my 1500 points list, and would like to know if you could help me with it, please.

It looks like this right now:

SHASH'EL COMMANDER
Twin-Linked Missile Pods - Targeting Array - Hard-Wired Drone Controller: 2 Shield Drones

3 CRISIS
Plasma Rifles - Missile Pods - Multi-tracker

3 CRISIS
Plasma Rifles - Missile Pods - Multi-tracker

3 CRISIS
Twin-Linked Missile Pods - Targeting Array

6 FIRE WARRIORS
+ DEVILFISH

6 FIRE WARRIORS
+ DEVILFISH

8 FIRE WARRIORS

1 HAMMERHEAD
Railgun - Two Burst Cannons - Disruption Pod - Target Lock - Multi-tracker

1 HAMMERHEAD
Railgun - Two Burst Cannons - Disruption Pod - Target Lock - Multi-tracker

2 BROADSIDES
Advanced Stabilisation System


1499 points


Thank you!

Drop the fishes and all fire warrior squads except a 6-man token squad. Kroot, due to their cheap cost, out-shoot fire warriors. Get 2 kroot squads.

As for a Fish for your FWs, get a Pathfinder squad (4-6 peoples), just w/ a dp. Now, I know you're thinking you need scoring, but Kroot are insanely annoying to kill, and if an opponent is actively trying to kill them (keep in mind flamers will rip them apart), they're doing it wrong. Tau win buy wiping their opponents out, and expanding at around T 3-5, depending on the army they're facing.

As for your broadsides, consider upgrading one w/ team leader, a target lock (splitting fire is a great way to take down low-av transports), and a shield drone, as they're usually quite high targets on a decent opponent's list.

As for crisis suits, consider not using deathrains, as the points you save compared to fireknife is pretty negligible compared to the damage it can deal to MCs, Termies, and FNP units (note you still have Railguns for true anti-vehicle). Note that w/ stacked commader/bodyguard squads, deathrain can be nicish for some things (in units of 2 models), but it's not as effective as Fireknife). Finally, 5 units of 2 suits can also work well for Tau, although you'll need 1.75k to reliably pull it off.

Also consider getting Team Leaders with blacksun filters, for wound allocation on your crisis suits, this massively increases their survivability.

Finally, for your HQ, a targeting array for a TLed BS 4 gun isn't that viable. I'd suggest looking into either just a BSF, an AFP, or just a target lock. Shield drones on the commander without a target lock are also a bit much. I'd suggest just going Fireknife, unless you absolutely do not have the points.

[Shas'El Mike]

[QUOTE=Originally Posted by SabrX View Post
8-10 Fire Knife is not enough to deal with 60 Assault Marines, 3 Sanguinary Priest w/ Jump Pack, Mephiston, and a Librarian w/ Jump Pack. Furthermore, Jump Infantry is harder to counter with Bubble Wrap because they have the ability to jump over Kroot bubblewrap.[/QUOTE]

Jump infantry can't jump over a kroot wall. they cannot be within 1" unless attacking. so even if its less than 100 kroot (probably a good idea) they will still have to find a way through them before they can accomplish anything meaningful.

[Empirespy]

@Atropos- If I were using a list along those lines I'd drop the 8 FW and replace them with a piranha w/ FD and upgrade your 'fishes with DPs.

[Shas'El Mike]

Hello, Tau brothers.
I'm new to 40k, and new to Tau, and I'm making my 1500 points list, and would like to know if you could help me with it, please.

It looks like this right now:

SHASH'EL COMMANDER
Twin-Linked Missile Pods - Targeting Array - Hard-Wired Drone Controller: 2 Shield Drones

3 CRISIS
Plasma Rifles - Missile Pods - Multi-tracker

3 CRISIS
Plasma Rifles - Missile Pods - Multi-tracker

3 CRISIS
Twin-Linked Missile Pods - Targeting Array

6 FIRE WARRIORS
+ DEVILFISH

6 FIRE WARRIORS
+ DEVILFISH

8 FIRE WARRIORS

1 HAMMERHEAD
Railgun - Two Burst Cannons - Disruption Pod - Target Lock - Multi-tracker

1 HAMMERHEAD
Railgun - Two Burst Cannons - Disruption Pod - Target Lock - Multi-tracker

2 BROADSIDES
Advanced Stabilisation System


1499 points


Thank you!

also consider investing in 2-4 piranhas. Either run them singly (2) or in x2 squads. The goal of these is to get as close as possible to the enemy, blocking their closest movement path towards your main force. If the enemy shoots them, great. That is a turn wasted. If not, you get to harrass them with some side-armor shots. Always loads of fun.

Especially with the advent of DOA armies every time you turn around (in keeping with this thread) I might suggest replacing a hammerhead with another squad of broadsides. And possibly consider plasma instead of sms systems on them. For one, since you'll have to castle you don't need to worry about the ass upgrade. and two, its that many more instant-dead fnp assault marines you don't have to worry about.

just some thoughts.

[SageoftheTimes]

Keep in mind w/ Piranhas, you'll have to run 2, if not more (some like them, I don't) at 1.5k. They're effective at blocking, and their melta is decent, but....they're expensive, and expect them to take a lot of fire. And to crash and burn horribly.

[samiens]

I find one works ok at 1500 points in my experience

[SageoftheTimes]

I find one works ok at 1500 points in my experience

Depends how you want to use it. One is more surprise melta which hangs back in the wings till you need it, or surprise contesting. Two means you can actually tie down a Land Raider/an advancing mech cluster.

[Shiodome]

hi, is there a tau glossary of terms anywhere? been reading through this thread, as i'll be borrowing a freinds tau army for a league for a nice change of pace... but seems to be a lot of established terminology (mostly for unit load-outs) that's all greek to me.

[SageoftheTimes]

hi, is there a tau glossary of terms anywhere? been reading through this thread, as i'll be borrowing a freinds tau army for a league for a nice change of pace... but seems to be a lot of established terminology (mostly for unit load-outs) that's all greek to me.

Tau shorthand guide for non-tau-players: (if I can ever author a thread, I'll include a Tau shorthand doc download)

Fireknife: Crisis suit loadout consisting of Plasma Rifle, Missile Pod, and Multitracker. Balances anti-light vehicle, anti-MC/MEq, and anti-FNP, with decent anti-infantry (not awesome, but alright). Consequently, PR = Plasma Rifle, MP = Missile Pod, MT = Multitracker.

Deathrain: Crisis suit loadout of twin-linked Missile Pods w/ either Flamer or Blacksun filter. Dedicated anti-light vehicle. Not that great unless your list has tons of plasma rifles, and you need dedicated vehicle hunters. Flamers are supposed to kill hordes, but they're not Heavy Flamers, so they're eh. BSFs give you more night-fighting range.

HH: The Hammerhead, Tau's one-stop-shop for long range blasts, decent protection from anti-tank fire, and great for blocking line of sight to your suits. BC = burst cannons, DP = disruption pods, tl = target lock, sms = smart missile system. Burst cannons vs. SMS, at this point, comes down to preferences, and points left. Decent on HHs due to the light cost, 35p on Devilfish isn't so hot anymore. Target locks are great w/ SMS and burst cannons sometimes, and are cheap.

Fish: Devilfish. Your troop carrier. It's overpriced, most take pathfinders and have their Firewarriors steal the finder-fish. SMS & other upgrades are less important now, as drones killed on the vehicle don't provide KPs.

BS: Probably Broadsides, they're you're dedicated anti-tank. ASS is a common shorthand for their advanced stabilization system, which allows them to be mobile while still firing.

PF/Finders: Pathfinders, your force multiplier best used on broadsides, crisis suits, or against that REALLY annoying unit w/ 2+ cover.

FB: Fusion Blaster. Basically melta.

Special weapons:
AFP: Airburst Fragmentation Projector. Good against massed light infantry and those 2+ cover users (Eldar Rangers/Pathfinders, SM Scouts, and so on).

CIB: Cyclic Ion Blaster. Average anti-infantry gun, but at a short range. Sudo-rending is meh.

Hope all that helps, don't hesitate to ask/PM me for more.

[tacoo]

So, I was thinking of starting a Tau army (deciding between DEldar or tau) but not sure on general tatics for them. Was wondering what is considered a balanced list for Tau that actually uses firewarriors?

[SageoftheTimes]

So, I was thinking of starting a Tau army (deciding between DEldar or tau) but not sure on general tatics for them. Was wondering what is considered a balanced list for Tau that actually uses firewarriors?

Tau are currently mono-build, more or less (there's a massed broadside build I wont be getting into), so I if you're still thinking, consider DE, they have more builds that are decent. That said, the Codex will be updated in the next 1-2 codexes, most likely, so if you're willing to do the long haul, Tau MIGHT be a better choice. TL;DR is your basic build, after that is tactics and unit loadout.

Edit: Feel free to check out the 3++ link below, the Blog has tons of stuff about Tau (what bubblewrap is and how to use it, Piranha blocking, and why x/y is decent and why a/b isn't).

TL;DR:
Shas'El with Plas,Missile, Multi
3 units of 2 Suits w/ the same
6 FWs who will steal the Pathfinder's fish
2 units of 10 kroot, one of which might want hounds in higher points (try for 13 and 17 total models in a/both unit(s), it ups the number of models needed to be killed before they fail their depressingly low Leadership)
Pathfinders (4-8, usually 6) w/ Devilfish with Disruption Pod (we don't upgrade them with bling due to Drones not providing a kill point if not detached)
1-2 Piranhas w/ Fusion, Targeting array (they usually move 24" which provides them with 4+ cover anyways, and since they're getting close to enemies with their Melta, Disruption Pods wont do much)
1 unit of 2 Broadsides w/ team leader w/ target lock, possibly a shield drone if you have the points (target lock is for wound allocation as well as allowing you to target more enemies if you're just shooting Rhinos or something)
2 Hammerheads w/ Railgun, Burst Cannon, Multitracker, Disruption Pods (standard loadout, you can swap to SMS + Target lock at higher point levels, note SMS has less shots, but ignores cover unless the unit's in terrain, and that target locks are fine just with Burst cannons once in a while)

This is decent for 1.5k. If you're playing at 1.75k, fill in more suits, get a few more Pathfinders, and consider another Broadside depending on how much mech/high AV mech you face. At 2k, you've gotta choose between swapping a hammerhead for another squad of Broadsides, or just having 3 in one unit and taking the anti-AV hit. Generally you'll have 7-8/8-9/10-12 suits at 1.5/1.75/2k.

Suits are the only units able to mass Plasma shots & Missile pods, so getting as many as you can is important. Twin-Linked Missile can be tempting, but once you stat out the unit, you're not paying TOO much more for the extra Plasma. I'd love to use them myself, but there's just no room points-wise, besides MAYBE at 2k. Fusion's not great, because it'll be used one turn, MAYBE two at most, so if you compare it to missiles or plas, it's still better. Burst Cannons are inferior to Plasma due to their short range (yes, the 6" makes a huge difference). For special weapons, CIB is meh due to pseudo but lesser-rending, and short range/low Str, but the AFP is OKISH if you face a lot of 5+ save units which stack cover saves (Blob guard, Eldar Pathfinders/Rangers, and Space marine scouts).

Adding in Broadsides (2 at 1.5k) and Hammerheads are important (Hammerheads & Devilfishes are large enough that, on a low base, they can Block line of sight of your suits so that your enemies can't target them) for the AV 13 armour for your suits, the Large Blast, and a mobile Railgun shot in a pinch (don't count on it doing much, but it's there). Pathfinders are nice to remove cover from what your main units are shooting at (Broadsides early and Suits later, usually). Piranhas are good for blocking enemy units, providing Melta (all Piranhas should have Targeting arrays and Fusion Guns), and late-game contesting.

Fire Warriors are highly expensive for what they bring (Kroot, due to their cheap cost, can outshoot them) so generally you'll want to take the minimum 6 and stuff them in a fish. Some people who take two pathfinder squads like to take two units of FWs, but Kroot will usually provide more surviveability and can bubblewrap for units. You'll want two squads of kroot to shield your main firebase from infiltrators and from assaults. Finally, you'll take a Shas'el because it's a cheap reliable HQ that'll boost LD of one unit (a suit squad or the Broadsides).

Oh, and Seeker missiles are ALRIGHT now, they ignore cover unless the unit/vehicle's in it. Be careful where you place them. Just about all other units suck for a variety of reasons, it's just the way it is. Tactics are: Stay back, pop transports, and then focus down squads. Basically shoot enemies off the board. Also, vs. deep strikers/infiltrators, castle up (your Pathfinders and Broadsides should be behind kroot anyways, but you'll form a big box so you don't lose units early to assaults).

[tacoo]

Before I had to quite 40k, I mained Pure GK(old codex) and necrons, so running a weaker codex is nothing new to me (infact, i prefer it). Also are fire warriors any good at all? I like the models for them so would like to use more then the required 6.

[Knights_Templar]

Before I had to quite 40k, I mained Pure GK(old codex) and necrons, so running a weaker codex is nothing new to me (infact, i prefer it). Also are fire warriors any good at all? I like the models for them so would like to use more then the required 6.

As far as points efficiency, no. As far as Strength 5 shooting at 30" (making them the best rapid fire gun in the game), yes.
That fire power can scare some opponents, but not all of them. Fire Warriors work well in <1000 points their strength 5 can really mess up those cheaper units. But they have a few drawbacks, namely leadership and cost. Sure add in a Shas'ui and they're Ld 8, take a bonding knife and the can rally all the time; but its 15 odd points taking away from your crisis suits and rail guns. Which is their other draw back, being more that kroot means that you're taking points away from other things that need points more.
Personally I love the guys, use them all the time, sure not as competitive as our singular build (if you can call that competitive), but if your in it for fun they work and if your not, then 6 is enough.