5.0 Tactica - Tau Empire

[Kelanen]

1. Red Gore main color, with Shining Gold accents.
2. Enchanted Blue main color, with Shining Gold accents.
3. Red Gore main color, with Boltgun Metal accents.
4. Enchanted Blue main color, with Boltgun Metal accents.
5. Blazing Orange main color, with Shining Gold accents.
6. Blazing Orange main color, with Boltgun Metal accents.
7. Red Gore main color, with Blazing Orange Accents

I'm afraid they are all a bit bright for my liking. I like all of my armies to panted in muted colours, that are at least moderate camouflage against their basing (which matches whichever 'home' set of terrain I assign them to). I know GW goes in for bright glaring colours, and it makes for noticeable figures, but I prefer something more realistic.

My Tau are dark blues/greys (fits in with my grey 'moonscape' terrain, although it's also not bad for urban camo), my Eldar are all based off of Bleached Bone (desert terrain), and so on.

If I were using those general colour schemes I'd go for Scab Red, not Gore, Shadow Grey not Enchanted Blue, and either Tau Light Ochre/Bestigor Flesh/Zamesi Desert (all from the new range) over Blazing Orange.

I suspect that's not useful as you obviously want bright colours however...

[Kelanen]

Who's to say they don't try? What they have to get through is 12 FW and cover saves in the first place. What they also have to do is fire at an anti infantry unit rather than everything else that is hammering them. In return I get fearless and reroll leadership.

My lists tend to have 4 to 6 high threat units, would you really target the Etheral to the exclusion of all else? Why thank you I'll just start systematically cutting you apart now shall I?

No you won't, you will lose (BADLY) against a good list, and a good player. All my lists have a good stab at killing this on Turn 1, and all will do (and I'd be willing to bet money on it) by Turn 2, unless you are in BLoS cover from most of the board, in which case it's going to be turn 2/3. And yes, it IS worth doing this and sparing the rest of your army (at least from those units in range of the Ethereal) that you think it's not shows you haven't had this used against you. You will lose a susbatntial portion of the rest of your army the moment the Ethereal dies. Fearless btw is a disadvantage not an advantage to Tau (and anyone else that can't fight). It just means you you take No Retreat wounds and die twice as fast (although admittedly it's likely to be one turn either way).

I'm sorry but when I talk 'Competitive' I mean put up against the best 100-300 players in a country, and playing 6-8 rounds over 2 days (or if playing casually, playing lists and opponents of the same standard). I think you mean something that you can play at your LGGS or club with 20-30 people. Just about everything I've heard of your list says it's goddamn awful against serious competition. Now to be fair Tau will never be great, but I see the fight effectively over on turn 3 here.

[Kelanen]

She s 175pts for 1.67 melta hits a turn, immunity to long range shooting and a massive ld 10 bubble. 2 BS4 hq helios with two shields comes in about 200pts for 1.33 melta hits and 2.33 plasma hits a turn. I think thats a fair deal.

Fair enough, we will agree to disagree then- that's why I'd take Helios every day and twice on Sundays. It should be noted that Helios is about the Plasma NOT the melta. The melta is there because you aren't allowed another separately firing plasma (and Plasma is usually TL anyway, barring the Commander.

When you need melta you use Piranhas.

[Ronin no Matsu]

Agree with Kelanen on this one, Shadowsun is the worst Tau unit after vespid. Piranhas are pretty cool.

[Fraf]

Agree with Kelanen on this one, Shadowsun is the worst Tau unit after vespid. Piranhas are pretty cool.

This is untrue, ethereals are far worse than anything, which ranks her third (fourth if you count Aun'va). And personally, I'd also put the Skyray below Shadowsun, but that might just be me.

[Sholto]

I took both Farsight and Shadowsun armies to a 1750 tourny in two consecutive years (and had a lot of fun), but even I couldn't find the fun in an Aun'va army Easily the worst unit in the codex, because he is so expensive, takes up a precious HQ slot but is not even your compulsory choice, brings absolutely nothing to the army or by himself and exists solely as a debuff button for your opponent to hit. I take Ethereals to tournaments, but I wouldn't touch this guy with a Kroot's banana hammock.

EDIT: although, 6th ed rumours are that Preferred Enemy gives you re-rolls to hit in shooting as well as melee. And if Aun'va dies, your whole army (the bits that are Tau and that don't run off the table) get PE. Hmmm...

[Memnos]

I took both Farsight and Shadowsun armies to a 1750 tourny in two consecutive years (and had a lot of fun), but even I couldn't find the fun in an Aun'va army Easily the worst unit in the codex, because he is so expensive, takes up a precious HQ slot but is not even your compulsory choice, brings absolutely nothing to the army or by himself and exists solely as a debuff button for your opponent to hit. I take Ethereals to tournaments, but I wouldn't touch this guy with a Kroot's banana hammock.

EDIT: although, 6th ed rumours are that Preferred Enemy gives you re-rolls to hit in shooting as well as melee. And if Aun'va dies, your whole army (the bits that are Tau and that don't run off the table) get PE. Hmmm...

Yep. And Shadowsun makes everyone within 18 inches Ld 10, so not a lot is running off.

I would put Aun'Va in front and have him die to the first shot.

It's a real shame that you can't buy multiple Ethereals like you can multiple Haemonculi. LD 10 with a reroll and Aun'Va dies, giving everyone rerolls to hit in shooting? I suspect Aun'Va would become like South Park's Kenny.

[Ronin no Matsu]

This is untrue, ethereals are far worse than anything, which ranks her third (fourth if you count Aun'va). And personally, I'd also put the Skyray below Shadowsun, but that might just be me.

Haha! You're right, I forgot ethereals and Aun'va. But I don't know what to think about the Skyray. I never used one, is it that bad?

[Kelanen]

Agree with Kelanen on this one, Shadowsun is the worst Tau unit after vespid. Piranhas are pretty cool.

I'm not sure it's the worst unit after Vespid (after all, there's a lot of competition!!!) I'm inclined to put Ethereals, Aun Va and Farsight worse, maybe Kroot Ox and Sky Rays. And certainly Fire Warriors and Kroot, but sadly we have to play those!

It is undoubtedly however FAR below the level of anything you'd voluntarily put into a competitive list!

[yarrickson]

I've been using Aun'va recently in 1500 point games, and he is even worse than I thought (and I knew he'd be bad) But I'm persisting.

[Ronin no Matsu]

I think a good Tau character wouldn't be so hard to imagine : Just give us a jet packed broadside or a better Farsight without restrictive special rules. Or maybe a forge world one could make it (I mean R'alai could be awesome without those stupid drones).

[Rogerio]

I dont understand the internet hate for FWs??? stick them in a Devilfish and advance forward near some suits, drop them out next to an enemy unit.

Markerlight the enemy unit with Tetra or Pathfinders and push the FWs BS up to BS5 (if you get 2 hits!!) i field 10 FWs per unit with a Shas`ui so i get 20 ST5 AP5 shots rolling 2s to hit and 3s to wound Marines/Orks or 2s kill Guard/Eldar/Dark Eldar. This will usually kill at least 6 or 7 enemies no matter what army they are from.

Next step hit them with the suits and the Devilfish weapons systems as well, Devilfish firing 7 ST 5 BS4 shots if its moved 6 and has all the relevant kit and the suits...well we all know what they can do. If this does not erradicate the unit then there will be at the most 1 or 2 enemies left wgo will charge in and probs die against 10 FWs (Ive seen this happen plenty of times)

Yeah sooo i dont get the hate?? protect them then use them to torrent the living shizzzz out of someone.

[Fraf]

This will usually kill at least 6 or 7 enemies no matter what army they are from.

Sorry but you're quite optimistic here (or using weighted dices). I can see that against lower armored infantry, but against marines, not so much (and given that more than half of armies are marines of some flavour, you can't really ignore that when judging the worth of a unit). With 10 BS5 FWs and a warfish, you're aiming at 4,5 dead marines on average. That's with almost 300 points of Tau (counting 10 FWs with shas'ui and knife, a standard warfish, and a single Tetra with TA) and you barely killed a quarter of that with your manoeuver, and next your FWs are exposed to return fire/charge, or at best you need another full turn to reembark before you can pull that tactic again.
And you don't see why they get the hate?

Is it a cool and fun tactic ? Hell yes, and believe me or not, I'm planning to try a list with 2 hunting groups consisting of 2 fully loaded DFs with 2 supporting tetras each. However I'm not delusional as to think this is an "effective" tactic. It's a gimmicky attempt at reviving the dead horse formerly known as "Fish of Fury" and I'll only play it against equally gimmicky/for **** 'n giggles lists.
No matter how you try to cheat the odds and build a list to try and make them work, this doesn't change the facts : in 5th ed environment, Firewarriors. Are. Bad.

[edit] Also, since the worth of a unit isn't just about what it can kill, although that was your approach, let's see the other reasons why WFs are bad :
- Bad at objective holding since With T3, 4+ armor/cover save, the worst combat stats of the game, and a small max squad size, they'll die quickly no matter what means you use to kill them.
- To add insult to injury, if they somehow manage to survive shooting/assault, they'll run away anyway with their Ld7 (which also makes them easy to tank shock off of objectives)
- They're expensive. They pay 4th edition money for their long range S5 gun, but in 5th, it's not that good anymore, and they can't aim anyway. You know a unit is badly priced when it's designed to be a glass cannon, and yet Kroots are more killy at shooting point for point.
- They rely a lot on their transport to do their job (be it travelling to, and holding objectives or rapid firing light infantry) and said vehicle costs twice what it's worth.
- BS 3 on a glass cannon ('nuff said)
- No heavy/special weapon or any kind of wargear to kill Vehicles or tough opponents in 5th ed environment (don't even try to pretend EMP grenades are a valid option)

[lantzkev]

- No heavy/special weapon or any kind of wargear to kill Vehicles or tough opponents in 5th ed environment (don't even try to pretend EMP grenades are a valid option)

Biggest point that doesn't matter. It's actually one thing that keeps them from being bigger point sinks than they are, and also it'd be against the design philo of the army to begin with!

[Reivax26]

Fire Warriors are bad compared to Space Marines, this is true. They really should be BS4 and seeing how they come from a "Hunter" style fluff I don't think it makes sense for them to Ini 2. However, there are a few uses I have found for them that seem to annoy the hell out of people. I start 6 inches in on deployment, if I go first I move up and fire on what I can while keeping half the squad in cover. If I am fighting against an army that bull rushes me, I will start a retreating action with them and fire on them as I can. Then using the terrain to my advantage I will take 1 to 2 Devilfish and move them in a way to make a spearhead with their hulls that blocks the opposing squad from coming through the gap to get to the Firewarriors. I have done this against Tyranids, Orks, and Space Marine Bikers and its really effective if you do it right.

I have always said and I will always say that Tau is not about having a "Deathstar" style unit like every other army in the game can make. Tau are about squads helping each other out to achieve maximum efficiency from firing on every gun in your army. Firewarriors despite what you might believe are very efficient units given support from Markerlights and Crisis Suits. Alone, they aren't much. That is true. However this game isn't about individual squads, its about how your squads work together as a team to obtain victory.

[lantzkev]

lol how do you move them 12inches from the board edge and be in rapid fire range? or are you using the 18in carbines?

[Fraf]

Firewarriors despite what you might believe are very efficient units given support from Markerlights and Crisis Suits.

In that scenario, most of the job is done by the markerlight wielding unit and the crisis unit. Any bad unit in the game can be considered good if you judge it by giving it the benefits of what other units do. You would get even better results using those same support units and spending the points on something else than FW. Hell, you could probably get equal or better results with just the markerlight and the crisis alone if they support each other rather than spending those ML hits on pulse weaponry.

[roirin]

Fair enough, we will agree to disagree then- that's why I'd take Helios every day and twice on Sundays. It should be noted that Helios is about the Plasma NOT the melta. The melta is there because you aren't allowed another separately firing plasma (and Plasma is usually TL anyway, barring the Commander.

When you need melta you use Piranhas.

I like helios but i find them really ineffective points wise against tank spam and darkeldar which put me off them. Plus its nigh impossible to lose to grey knights with tau, one of the lists helios enjoy playing. I take two elite fire-knife squads with a sensor tower each backing them up. Essentially two units of BS4 twin plasma and twin missile pod suits are very effective at killing pretty much everything. It leaves my hq slot open for ld10 bubble.

Piranha's just don't cut it for me. Too easy to kill compared to tetra. I use shadowsun's melta more as a dreadknight/character killer more than anything.

[greenmtvince]

I know there's not a lot of love for Farsight in this thread, but what about Farsight in games of Zone Mortalis?

It seems like the effect he has on the FOC wouldn't be as much of an issue here since you're not taking tanks, probably loading up on suits, and the Kroot don't get any cover save benefits. Having one marginally passable close combat character in a close quarters game might actually be a good idea.

[Kelanen]

Not really.

Firstly, how loaded up suits do you want to be? You can already fit 15 Crisis and 9 Broadsides in a standard list.

Secondly, that 'passable close combat character' is equivalent to a Marine Sgt with power sword. ie: Nothing.