5.0 Tactica - Tau Empire

[stereynolds]

I've always had a sniper team in my list and it's always performed well (apart from one game where 4 wounds saw me losing the DC )

Sure I could get another broadside in for that but I find the snipers more suited to my meta. Sooner or later those MEQ need to cross open ground to reach you and then

Being S6 AP3 and able to take 9 of them could do well against Scarab Farm Necron lists as well as lighter vehicles in Dark Eldar lists.

And 6 of them are cheaper than the Hammerhead :P

[IAMNOTHERE]

I'd completely forgotten their usefullness against swarms too - nice spot

[Bonzai]

Thanks for the feed back. The list i was concidering was;

Shas'o w/mp, plas, mt, 2x sd
3x crisis suits w/mp, plas, mt, squad leader, 2x sd
3x crisis suits w/mp, plas, mt, squad leader, 2x sd
2x crisis suits w/mp, plas, mt
5 pathfinders
pirahna w/ fb, dp
pirahna w/ fb, dp
6 fire warriors
6 fire warriors
Devilfish w/ disruption pod
Devilfish w/ disruption pod
3 broadsides w/ ass, squad leader, tl, 2x sd
3 broadsides w/ ass, squad leader, tl, 2x sd
3x sniper drones teams
total: 1998

Should still have plenty of anti tank, and the drone teams add some nice volume of fire. I might roll with it, and see how it does.

[Ronin no Matsu]

Thanks for the feed back. The list i was concidering was;

Shas'o w/mp, plas, mt, 2x sd
3x crisis suits w/mp, plas, mt, squad leader, 2x sd
3x crisis suits w/mp, plas, mt, squad leader, 2x sd
2x crisis suits w/mp, plas, mt
5 pathfinders
pirahna w/ fb, dp
pirahna w/ fb, dp
6 fire warriors
6 fire warriors
Devilfish w/ disruption pod
Devilfish w/ disruption pod
3 broadsides w/ ass, squad leader, tl, 2x sd
3 broadsides w/ ass, squad leader, tl, 2x sd
3x sniper drones teams
total: 1998

Should still have plenty of anti tank, and the drone teams add some nice volume of fire. I might roll with it, and see how it does.

Sounds good to me.

[Rogerio]

I find it so strange that no one uses hammerheads, I think they are top class! The fact they can fly 12 and still fire their rail gun and get a cover save pretty much anywhere on the board is great.

A few weeks back I played a marine list with vulkan and a termie squad in land raider plus a bunch of assaylt marines d,dreads and razorback squads. Turn one my hammerhead blows up the raider, my other hammerhead takes out a speeder and this goes on and on. Eventually his whole army is on foot and forced through a bottleneck, here is where the hammerhead really shines. I roll them both up and unload submunitions killing the majority of his assault squad and then fire the sms woth my target lock as well!

Total devestation, on multiple occasions I've played eldar or dark eldar and just wiped out entire squads with one shot from submunitions as well, it rocks.

[lantzkev]

Because it's so many points for that one rail gun shot.

It's only really redeeming against hoards in my opinion, point wise. now if I could replace its turrets/drones with markerlights, I'd be quite a bit happier with it.

[Kelanen]

Yeah, the Hammerhead is only worthwhile if you want to be firing blasts 90% of the time. If not you should have bought Broadsides.

And hordes are dead...

[Gorin9SQ]

Because it's so many points for that one rail gun shot.

And for an extra 10 pts. that one railgun can move 12" before firing.
Another 5 and its survivability goes way up. Even with an A.S.S. a Broadside could not provide that level of mobility to its guns.

[Ronin no Matsu]

I was the kind of guy to love the hammerhead for all the reasons you propose Rogerio, but the main problem is the point cost. It's not worth it against any astartes army and I suppose they still can be efficient vs ork, eldar and DE cause of the pie plate, but just against some of their lists.

[Rogerio]

I can see where everyone is coming from with the love for broadsides and I do run a unit of 2 in my army but I do lovehammerheads. At my local club marines are majorly in the minority(very odd I know) with the main armies being orks, nids, dark eldar and guar, then there is me with Tau.

Strange I know but were doing a league at the moment andits in a group stage at the moment and mine and my mates groups are as follows group 1 dark eldar, orks, blood angels, orks. And my group whoch is group 3 orks dark eldar, orks again! And Tau (me) so my pie plates are really really gonna come in handy bearing in mind one ork guy in my group fields multiple mobs of 20-30 boyz!!!

[taudau]

The good thing about hammerheads is that they won't die on turn 1/2 to deep striking drop pod dreadnaughts / assault squads, which broadsides are prone to.
I agree that they're way overcosted, like almost everything else in the codex.

Since we only ever play 1500 points games in my meta the lack of massed railgun fire is somewhat mitigated. While the hammerheads and broadsides focus on taking out the heavy (av13+) armor in the first turns I find my 4 deathrains can saturate transports well enough.
Playing on such a comparably low points value also allows for a slightly more mobile approach to the game as virtually less of the board will be covered by miniatures

Edit: In closing:

Personally I don't feel Tau can pull punches with the "modern" codexes above 1.750 points. Yes, you can certainly make it work if you're a good player. However I don't think Tau were designed with 2k+ games in mind. The slots are filled way too fast once you break the 1.750 points barrier, so much even that many people fill out their HQ slots with ta'ro'cha command units just to be able to field more suits.

[lantzkev]

don't assume that with broadsides, it's easy enough to deep strike meltas as well.

Unless your board is choked with more than 25% terrain you should be able to move very little and keep los with your broadsides.

They also really really require markerlight supports if you want to make every shot count

[Kelanen]

I can see where everyone is coming from with the love for broadsides and I do run a unit of 2 in my army but I do lovehammerheads. At my local club marines are majorly in the minority(very odd I know) with the main armies being orks, nids, dark eldar and guar, then there is me with Tau.

In which case you are absolutely right to use Hammerheads. It's just that's utterly atypical of most environments.

To be fair you'll see more xenos in a club environment than the tourney scene, but even there you are incredibly MEQ-lite. It's still been at least 50% in the most casual scenes I've frequented, and 100% with the players that I play with round each others homes.

[Danasdfgh]

So.. If 6e rumours turn out to be true in a week or two could fire warriors become a useful troop choice again?

2 shots at 30'' would be a LOT better than the current 2 shots at 12''

I could certainly see myself trying out proper fire warrior squads again if this is the case.

[Mozzamanx]

Honestly I think we will still be stuck with Kroot being better. Kroot Rifles are Rapid too, but 7pts/S4 against 10pts/S5. I still stand by Infiltrate being worth more than the extra range and armour.

[Hokiecow]

So.. If 6e rumours turn out to be true in a week or two could fire warriors become a useful troop choice again?

2 shots at 30'' would be a LOT better than the current 2 shots at 12''

I could certainly see myself trying out proper fire warrior squads again if this is the case.

You mean 1 shot at 30" or 2 @ 15"

Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using Tapatalk 2

[Kelanen]

You mean 1 shot at 30" or 2 @ 15"

What are you basing that on? Because unless you have a copy of 6th in front of you, that doesn't fit current rules, or the rumoured new rules:

Current: 1 shot at 30", 2 shots at 12"
Rumoured: 2 shots at 30", 3 shots at 12"

I concur with other views - Fire Warriors will likely get better, so will Kroot, and I doubt the dynamic between them will change, whichever side you lean on. Whether either is actually good enough to want to take we shall have to wait and see - my strong suspicion is they'll be better, but not good enough to displace Crisis suits (those Plasma Rifles also getting improved Rapid-Fire) and so the best lists will still probably want minimum troops for Tau.

Tau are unusual in that if 6th nerfs vehicles as expected, it doesn't put our focus back on Troops like it may for many other armies. Our vehicles were already sub-par, and we were relying on suits anyway, which for these purposes are infantry, like troops - only better.

[Edinairas]

What are you basing that on? Because unless you have a copy of 6th in front of you, that doesn't fit current rules, or the rumoured new rules:

Current: 1 shot at 30", 2 shots at 12"
Rumoured: 2 shots at 30", 3 shots at 12"

IIRC the current rumours say that
"Rapid Fire Weapons fire 1 shot at ful range, even if the unit moved
or 2 shots at half range"

The rumour about 2 shots at max range and 3 shots at half is for relentless.

[Hokiecow]

What are you basing that on? Because unless you have a copy of 6th in front of you, that doesn't fit current rules, or the rumoured new rules:

Current: 1 shot at 30", 2 shots at 12"
Rumoured: 2 shots at 30", 3 shots at 12"

I'm basing it on the rumours! I won't know what you've been reading...

From beltway-gamers.com

[11:16:25] <source> rapid fire is half range not 12"
[11:17:51] <source> rapid fire isnt limited by movement

We have early summer, the birds are singing, and some have seen the new WD. Some changes reported as per new WD:
- Speaking of rapid fire, you can indeed move and fire once up to the full range of the weapon (it is explicitly stated that Fire Warriors can fire their weapons up to 30" away), no confirmation on the 3x fire for Relentless at half range though.

I think you're confusing this, you can move and still shoot your full distance; not forced to rapid fire (current rules). It does not say you can rapid fire at full distance.

I was also trying to hint that it's too early to be assessing tactical advantages of units until the rules come out; since know for sure what the rules are. Thanks for nailing that home.

[Kelanen]

From beltway-gamers.com

Hmm.. first I've seen of some of those, I'll take it with the same pinch of salt as other rumours for the next week, but it's no less probable either.

Interestingly, with any of the rumoured Rapid-Fire changes, but especially this one, the Kroot Gun on the Kroot Ox becomes a good weapon! That's potentially 2-3 S7 shots at 48" and 2 at 24", so better than an Autocannon. Whether it's enough to be worth taking them with other issues, is another matter entirely, but it certainly turns something worthless into quite good.

I think you're confusing this, you can move and still shoot your full distance; not forced to rapid fire (current rules). It does not say you can rapid fire at full distance.

Confused from your source, but it's what's been quoted in other rumour mills. we'll have to see.