5.0 Tactica - Tau Empire

[alphastealer]

While I like the fireknife suit setup the best, it is quite expensive and does rely on markerlights to be fully effective.

I generally take 2 teams of 8 pathfinders to give my commander fireknife and elite knives a boost in the first 2 turns. They also help the 3 broads and 2 hammerheads drop tanks and transports.

Often though I tend to face Nids, Orks or even recently a mob of DE after I blew up their raiders. This is where my missile pod and twin linked flamer suits shine. Firstly they helped drop the transports then in turns 3-5 they clean up most infantry.

Sure they need to get close, but when you have 2 teams of 2 that is 4 twin linked flamers. Even a 30 strong mob of sluggga boyz will go home early.

I know that Tau like range, which is why every suit I have, has a missile pod. I just find that far too often the game ends up with lots of enemies in my face and I like having the flamers to make them go away.

[samiens]

Which works great against Nids, Orks et al- but if you face more heavily armoured enemies those flamers don't work as well.

How many points do you play? Being UK based I tend to play 1500 points which leaves me with a minimal 6 Pathfinders (I must convert some more- I still have a shas'ui in there and that definitely isn't worth it!)

[Zombie Savant]

I'm certain I'm being quite thick-headed in asking this, but here I go anyway...

Where does it say how many weapon systems a battle-suit is allowed to fire? I am sure I am being blind.. is it in the codex, BRB, or FAQ?

[Hokiecow]

Somewhere in the BRB. I don't have it handy but look under shooting.

[Stonerhino]

They don't have a special rule; but how many weapons a non-MC can fire is in the BRB.

However there is a piece of wargear that crisis suits can get that changes that number and that's rules are in the Tau codex.

[SageoftheTimes]

I'm certain I'm being quite thick-headed in asking this, but here I go anyway...

Where does it say how many weapon systems a battle-suit is allowed to fire? I am sure I am being blind.. is it in the codex, BRB, or FAQ?

You're blind.
A model may fire one weapon, but Multi-trackers allow you to fire two at once.

[Hokiecow]

@Zombie Savant: The specific rule is the 2nd paragraph on page 15 (mini book), at the start of the section titled "The Shooting Phase".

"Normally each model in a firing unit can fire a single weapon..."

Also mentioned on page 17 "Rolling to Hit" ...

and should be mentioned under the description for infantry which I can't seem to find.

As Stonerhino mentioned, the Multitracker allows the Suits to fire two weapons.

[Knights_Templar]

All right, after not seeing this thread on the first page (or second, and third) for a while I felt it was time to pose a question.
"How to best run a gunline tau force"
Now before everybody starts rambling on about how mech or hybrid is better, this question is posed due to a lack of models (specifically Hammer heads, Devil Fish, Pirahana etc...) and is run at a small points (max 1250).
I would play Mech if I could but I can't right now.
Anyway any advice would be appreciated.
Models avalabile:
Kroot (count as)
Fire Warriors
SOME crisis suits (not nine, I think 5 max)
Some stealth suits
A broadside
A sniper team
an assortment of drones
And a small Vespid team
Hope this list helps.

[Stonerhino]

I would make a list something like:

HQ:
Shas'el w/ Plasma rife+missile pod+targeting array+hw-multitracker+target loct 102pts
Shas'el w/ Plasma rife+missile pod+targeting array+hw-multitracker+target lock 102pts

Elite:
Crisis team X2 fire knifes w/fteam leader + Targeting array+hw-multi tracker+target lock 144pts
Crisis suit Fire knife 62pts

Troops:
Fire Warriors X12 120 pts
Fire Warriors X12 120 pts
Fire Warriors X12 120 pts
Fire Warriors X12 120 pts
Fire Warriors X12 120 pts
Fire Warriors X12 120 pts

Fast Attack:

Heavy Support:
Broadside w/teamleader +targeting array+hw-drone controller w/X2 shield drones 115 pts

Total 1245.

I'm sure you don't have the fire warriors to field that many. So fill the points with other units.

As far as tactics go. You will have to play like a hybrid blocking army. The difference is going to come from the fact that you are not min maxed to do it. But and it will take some practice fire warriors can do wounders in the right hands. That said the way it works is to use units to stall an advancing enemy. With the limited models you have that means sacrificing units so that the enemy will either not be able to advance or at least not as much as he would have been able to other wise. Hopefully allowing you to get more turns of shooting at them.

You will also need to prioritize your targets and shoot them untill they are dead. because you are lacking in the fire power area.

[Knights_Templar]

Thats some great advice, thanks,
I do have models to represent kroot, they will have to fill the Fire Warrior gap
Might work better for blocking too.

[SabrX]

Posted a battle report featuring my Tau vs Eldar:

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=289844

Mech-dar is a tough match up.

[Trains_Get_Robbed]

In 1,000-1,500 point level games, are pirahannas recommended in the current meta game?

I have three currently, and use two as seperate squads and then path finders for my last fast attack choice. Roughly the handful of 40K games (10 or so now) consist of my Pirahnnas turbo boosting to get near a wave seperant or rhino or Raider, and then they fail their +4's to basic S5/6 weapons and poof 120 points down the drain.

I' am curious as what tactics you all emplow with them, as their main purpose is to draw fire away it seems from Hammerheads and B.Sides and the like, however, being AV 11 and open topped has really disproved such a notion so far as small arms fire has made a mess of them, resulting in Lascannons and devastors and the like being able to focus on their orginal targets.

The rest of my list consit normally of:

10-15 Kroot

2 FireKnifes, sheild drone for each.

Shas' el FireKnife, or Cyclical and Rifle (Orks or Nids sometimes Necrons) +4 Invul or Shields sometimes.

2 Broadsides seperate squads multitracker and a sheild drone for each

a 10 man Fire Warrior squad with markerlight and m.tracker

5-7 Pathfinder team 3 with Heavy Rail Rifles and according fish.

I threw the rest of the list type in here to get a better perspective of what I'm taking with the rest of my points. Tactics include camping and with the rails with F.W squad on objectives and moving as needed into cover or from assualts.

[Moepho]

Anyone using 9 broadsides? Results?

9 with rifles and multitrackers with leaders w/ target locks seems really tempting to me as this would put a hurting on deepstriking/drop podding units as well any deathstar unit that gets in range with the number of shots they have as well as any mech. Obviously the drawback is speed and deployment, but all those shots....

Anyone tried it in 5th edition?

[Hokiecow]

I've used 6 but find that the lack of mobility makes it hard to deny target cover saves. So many Str10 shots don't seem as scary when you can get a cover save.

[Moepho]

I've used 6 but find that the lack of mobility makes it hard to deny target cover saves. So many Str10 shots don't seem as scary when you can get a cover save.

Never having played it, I'm guessing it would need the standard kroot bubblewrap, pirahna blockers, and pathfinder support for removing cover to fill the rest of the points.

[SageoftheTimes]

All right, after not seeing this thread on the first page (or second, and third) for a while I felt it was time to pose a question.
"How to best run a gunline tau force"
Now before everybody starts rambling on about how mech or hybrid is better, this question is posed due to a lack of models (specifically Hammer heads, Devil Fish, Pirahana etc...) and is run at a small points (max 1250).
I would play Mech if I could but I can't right now.
Anyway any advice would be appreciated.
Models avalabile:
Kroot (count as)
Fire Warriors
SOME crisis suits (not nine, I think 5 max)
Some stealth suits
A broadside
A sniper team
an assortment of drones
And a small Vespid team
Hope this list helps.

Sounds like you need to trade out your fire warriors (beyond say 22, you can mod those as pathfinders and NOT have to deal with metal bs!). Try to run the stealth suits as Crisis. If there's any question of LoS, bring an extra base so you can swap a big suit for a small one.

I'd suggest....as many suits as you can fit in there. Go for commanders w/ bodyguard, fireknife for preference. Missile/Plas/Multi on the leader, Missile/Plas/TA/HW-Multi on the bodyguards. 5 Crisis + at least 3 stealth = 8+ crisis suits! You're in business! Broadside is of course, key. Sniper drone team....ugh, there's no good way to run them. Keep them in there to help w/ things, but replace them asap. Vespids.....are bad, don't run them. Beyond that, Kroot in front of FWs, FWs in rings around your center, and prepare to not do too great. :/

You need 2-3 hulls at least to do hybrid, so I'd suggest trying to get 1-2 Fishes and 1-2 Skyray boxes (they have the Hammerhead bits, in addition to Smart Missile Sytems, the only box that has them).

I'd also suggest considering running FWs as Kroot. FWs can't fight and can't shoot as well for an equally expensive group of kroot vs. marines (sad, I know).

[SageoftheTimes]

Thats some great advice, thanks,
I do have models to represent kroot, they will have to fill the Fire Warrior gap
Might work better for blocking too.

No need man, just grab some vehicles and try to trade for more suits & vehicles.

[SageoftheTimes]

In 1,000-1,500 point level games, are pirahannas recommended in the current meta game?

I have three currently, and use two as seperate squads and then path finders for my last fast attack choice. Roughly the handful of 40K games (10 or so now) consist of my Pirahnnas turbo boosting to get near a wave seperant or rhino or Raider, and then they fail their +4's to basic S5/6 weapons and poof 120 points down the drain.

They're basically 70p speeders w/ JUST melta. That said, you can block w/ them for a bit. I usually take one, but I'm considering just taking none. I find them nice for the occasional CC dread and Land Raider, but not essential.

I' am curious as what tactics you all emplow with them, as their main purpose is to draw fire away it seems from Hammerheads and B.Sides and the like, however, being AV 11 and open topped has really disproved such a notion so far as small arms fire has made a mess of them, resulting in Lascannons and devastors and the like being able to focus on their orginal targets.

I used to Turbo-boost them in and watch them end up in flames. They do absorb some firepower, but still, they're not awesome. Now, I usually hide them behind terrain, or hide them in my lines, then pop them out as needed. They're there to threaten and blow up AV 14 targets, nothing more, and aren't that great at it. As long as you have 3+ hulls for Suits to hide behind, they're probably not necessary. That said, a group of them all in one squad means they're not going to ignore stunned/shaken. A large group means front armour only. It isn't great, but it isn't bad either.

The rest of my list consit normally of:

10-15 Kroot

2 FireKnifes, sheild drone for each.

Shas' el FireKnife, or Cyclical and Rifle (Orks or Nids sometimes Necrons) +4 Invul or Shields sometimes.

2 Broadsides seperate squads multitracker and a sheild drone for each

a 10 man Fire Warrior squad with markerlight and m.tracker

5-7 Pathfinder team 3 with Heavy Rail Rifles and according fish.

I threw the rest of the list type in here to get a better perspective of what I'm taking with the rest of my points. Tactics include camping and with the rails with F.W squad on objectives and moving as needed into cover or from assualts.

I generally have 6 FWs in the Pathfinder fish playing starcraft till they die/game ends, 2 kroot units, 2+ broadsides (I use Advanced Stabilization, your mileage may vary), 1-2 Pathfinder squads, enough HHs to get to 3 hulls, and as many suits as I can squeeze in. Also thinking about Commander/Bodyguard squads.

[SageoftheTimes]

Anyone using 9 broadsides? Results?

9 with rifles and multitrackers with leaders w/ target locks seems really tempting to me as this would put a hurting on deepstriking/drop podding units as well any deathstar unit that gets in range with the number of shots they have as well as any mech. Obviously the drawback is speed and deployment, but all those shots....

Anyone tried it in 5th edition?

I've tried high-broadside groups. They work if you roll saves well (I don't). As to speed/deployment, 9 broadsides is the big middle finger to mech. That said, full multitrackers? HHs will do about as well, and wont cost as much (you'll need shield drones and so on). I stand by Advanced Stabilization, but I use mine for different stuff.

I've also seen guys who use BROADSIDES as bubblewrap, seemed easily beaten w/ Assault Cannons or Plasma. Or Las. Or Dark Lances. The list goes on.

I've used 6 but find that the lack of mobility makes it hard to deny target cover saves. So many Str10 shots don't seem as scary when you can get a cover save.

Use Pathfinders?
I find 6 work really well for anti-mech.

Never having played it, I'm guessing it would need the standard kroot bubblewrap, pirahna blockers, and pathfinder support for removing cover to fill the rest of the points.

Bubble-wrap is kinda standard. As are Pathfinders. Piranhas....are optional, depending on how many suits you have, so you can concentrate broadside fire on high-av targets.

[Col. Dash]

Reading this thread, I think I have a different take on the Tau army. My army is designed to be almost entirely reserved and still be effective. My Broadsides walk on(yes that means they arent firing) My FW and kroot zoom on in DF or outflank in the case of kroot, and my 9 crisis elites and 3 hazards all DS. The only things I typically will start on the board with are pathfinders and their DF(emphasis on the importance of the devilfish, the PFs are a delivery system so I can get it which comes into play in a second) I enjoy the balls to the wall game style and it tends to come as a shock to people expecting the typical JSJ from cover Fireknives(which I do not use a single one of.) I also tend to start my commander and his Deathrain team on the board.

Bait and switch Tactics- This is what I call my method of fighting. I doubt its new but it isnt something I see used or talked about very often. The basic premise is starting the game with some juicy bait units on the board to force the opponent to come across(its my primary tactic with my Air Cav IG armies too). I use my pathfinders, my command squad and a FW squad in the PF DF. I put the PFs somewhere vital but in really good cover preferebly where LOS is limited to a certain fire path. Opponents generally know how effective PFs can be against them so they will concentrate way more resources to take them out than they really should. Works for me, thats why I bring them and not expect them to do anything except get shot at. The important part for me is their Devilfish and its reroll DS scatter ability for my suits. It I take care to try and keep out of harms way and additionally I do not make it threatening, I give it a Disruption Pod, thats it because if it is engaging then it better be late game or something is wrong. Ill throw a FW or auxilary team in there for late game objectives. My command team with their 36" TL launchers will bounce around and go for transports or important targets.

What all this does is draw the enemy across the board. These targets are too important to ignore and will plague the opponent all game if he doesnt get rid of them. I fully expect the PFs to die. By bringing everything including the broadsides and HH on from reserves almost garruantees I am getting side shots on any vehicle when they do come on. It also enables me to DS behind enemy forces and split them up, if any PFs are alive to support my guys, so much the better. Every now and then it really works out to my favor and I come down with extreme force and have a devastating shooting phase like my last game. All but one crisis team came in on turn 3 and pretty much ended the game destroying all or most of every single opponent squad on the board(pathfinders didnt make it though, they are a volunteer squad in my army fluff anyway).