5.0 Tactica - Tau Empire

[Kelanen]

There's another problem with target lock equipped broadsides : it prevents you from taking a more valuable support system, like A.S.S.
You can still take a hard-wired target lock on the team leader, in order to shoot at 2 different targets.
This is why teams of 2 broadsides are optimal as long as you have enough heavy support slots. Only when increasing in points and saturating the HS slots should you take teams of three, and even then, I think A.S.S. still trumps target locks for non leader broadsides (by the time you fill your HS slots, you can already shoot at 5-6 different targets per turn with only TL on leaders)

I think ASS is overrated - I've never used it much when I've taken it - on the other hand Targetting Array is golden and used every round.

Even on a 3 man team, a hard wired Target Lock on the leader and splitting two ways is sufficient - in the mech era there is no shortage of targets in most armies that will want two shots put in them - everyone but Dark Eldar pretty much.

[Kelanen]

I can see what you mean Kelanen, the hammerheads are not really doing the damage and more Broadsides would be great but i only get the forgeworld ones and they are 30 quid each, plus im not mad on spending loads on new models if there is a possibility of a new codex coming in the next 6 months or later in the year.

I can understand that from an economic view point, and I agree. From a list PoV though, Broadsides are for vehicles, Hammerheads for hordes, with an emergency vehicle shot.

[Tremer]

I think ASS is overrated - I've never used it much when I've taken it - on the other hand Targetting Array is golden and used every round.

Even on a 3 man team, a hard wired Target Lock on the leader and splitting two ways is sufficient - in the mech era there is no shortage of targets in most armies that will want two shots put in them - everyone but Dark Eldar pretty much.

Could you elaborate on this please?!
I always felt that one should plan ones movement according to the tanks and transports of the enemy- especially with Tau. If you now bring pot-shots (using the Targetting Array) with your Broadsides at the transports you can not guarranty that you will actually do anything. Cover, smoke, flat-out, all these things require you to have at the very least 2 if not 3 shots. My reasoning is that with Targeting Arrays you pay for something that you will NOT just all the time. Actually, you will use it rarely because its a gamble: you could kill more stuff, but you dont know what you will actually kill.
I think a Targeting Array on the leader is sufficient. Its nice to have on a team of two, a very good buy on a team of three.
ASS on the other hand can help you negate cover for enemy transports, allows you to avoid close range and generally meshes well the water-like flowing of a Tau army, that tries to stay away from the enemy. (Not saying that Tau is a 'water-army'- I never really understood that concept. Its just that Tau need to be mobile to avoid the brunt of the enemies forces.)

[meltedwing]

I used to take A.S.S. all the time, thinking that it would always be necessary because I didn't want to have to choose to move or shoot.

Lately thought, I never take A.S.S. because the only time in which I HAVE to move is during first turn of a dawn of war scenario.

If I have to move because stuff is getting too close to me, moving D6 inches isn't going to make a huge difference and, them being that close really just shows that I should have been killing things faster, or I failed to leave a bodyguard behind to protect them. I haven't had my broadsides assaulted in a very long time.

I almost always take targeting arrays as my one gear choice, and then I put a HW target lock on the leader. This reduces the number of marker lights I need, and I always dedicate at least one Tetra (now that I have them, and their rules don't suck) to marking up whatever the broadsides are going to shoot at. I don't allow my opponent to have a cover save, if I can at all avoid it, but I don't do it by moving my broadsides around. I do it with marker lights.

[IAMNOTHERE]

The broadside slot I've struggled with for months; every time I don't take it I get DoW. I'll happily take the chance now as my opponent will also be night fighting.

Targeting array with a single target lock works for me.

[Tremer]

If I have to move because stuff is getting too close to me, moving D6 inches isn't going to make a huge difference and, them being that close really just shows that I should have been killing things faster, or I failed to leave a bodyguard behind to protect them. I haven't had my broadsides assaulted in a very long time.

Its no so much an issue with CC, but rather being able to completely avoid the 12" shots. And even the 24" range can be avoided most of the time.

How do you do your markerlight thing? SInce you have 3x3 broadsides you can shoot 9 targets. To negate cover for all of them needs 27 markerlight hits, i.e. (by BS3) 54 markerlights in the army. Agreed, these numbers are absurd, but even if you only want to negate cover to 6+ or only shoot 6 targets you will still need 20+ markerlights. I dont see it happening! Why not move a bit and use the precious markerlights on something else?

[meltedwing]

First off my marker lights are bs4. If I'm running 9 broadsides then we are talking about a very high point value game and I would probably want to have three maxed out tetra squads which is a total of 48 marker lights of which 32 should hit on average which leaves 27 for denying cover saves and maybe 5 more for a suit squad to deny cover and increase BS to 5.

[Ronin no Matsu]

First off my marker lights are bs4. If I'm running 9 broadsides then we are talking about a very high point value game and I would probably want to have three maxed out tetra squads which is a total of 48 marker lights of which 32 should hit on average which leaves 27 for denying cover saves and maybe 5 more for a suit squad to deny cover and increase BS to 5.

I hope it's not something you actually use, I mean 9 broadsides and 12 tetras? you can't fit it in a 2k army list right?

[meltedwing]

LOL, no... I wouldn't put more than 4 broadsides in a 2k list, but people were talking about 9 broadsides in a list of unknown point value. If they are going to do that, then I have to adjust in order to accommodate their dreams of grandeur.

Honestly my 1k list has 2 broadsides and 2 tetras. My 2k list will likely have 3 broadsides and 4 tetras (as I only own 3 broadsides).

I don't think I would hit 9 broadsides until I was at around 4k or so.

[Ronin no Matsu]

And even then, it would only be versus a massive​ vehicule army.

[lantzkev]

LOL, no... I wouldn't put more than 4 broadsides in a 2k list, but people were talking about 9 broadsides in a list of unknown point value. If they are going to do that, then I have to adjust in order to accommodate their dreams of grandeur.

Honestly my 1k list has 2 broadsides and 2 tetras. My 2k list will likely have 3 broadsides and 4 tetras (as I only own 3 broadsides).

I don't think I would hit 9 broadsides until I was at around 4k or so.

I use 8-9 in 2k lists nearly everytime.

[Ronin no Matsu]

I use 8-9 in 2k lists nearly everytime.

Well good sire, could you depict for us what the rest of your 2k list look like? I'm very curious to hear that!

[Grinder]

lantzkev,

how many broadsides do you run in 1500 point games?

[Kelanen]

I'll write a longer answer when I have more time to several of the points raised. There should be at least 6 Broadsides in a 1750 list, and I've certainly fielded 9 plenty of times (and above 2k it would be standard. I don't play 1500, so I'd have to check one of my theoretical lists, but I'd probably be playing 6 there, possibly 4, depending on what I spent on Crisis suits.

[IAMNOTHERE]

Really? I know I've not played Tau for long but even against mech lists, 3 have done me ok and I'll be moving up to 4 tonight. I find the Railheads dual use more beneficial than another squad of Broadside - Lg blast. I find the broadsides wasted against hordes etc.

[Kelanen]

You're right a Railhead is *much* better against hordes, but hordes are a complete non-entity on the competitive scene, where as 90%+ of armies a full mech (with the remainder partially mechanised). As such Hammerheads are pretty useless now, and Broadsides rule. I honestly don't remember the last time I faced a horde...

Now if you have a 4th Ed kind of environment with footslogging marines, hordes and not too many transports, then Railheads are still viable (as they were then), but the competetive scene is about 75% MEQ, and my home scene is 100% MEQ - all mechanised of course.

[IAMNOTHERE]

Well the local is mainly mech but I've seen footdar and horde ork win tournies this year.

Today I'm facing black Templar termie spam, might do a bat rep.

[Ronin no Matsu]

I'll write a longer answer when I have more time to several of the points raised. There should be at least 6 Broadsides in a 1750 list, and I've certainly fielded 9 plenty of times (and above 2k it would be standard. I don't play 1500, so I'd have to check one of my theoretical lists, but I'd probably be playing 6 there, possibly 4, depending on what I spent on Crisis suits.

You're right a Railhead is *much* better against hordes, but hordes are a complete non-entity on the competitive scene, where as 90%+ of armies a full mech (with the remainder partially mechanised). As such Hammerheads are pretty useless now, and Broadsides rule. I honestly don't remember the last time I faced a horde...

Now if you have a 4th Ed kind of environment with footslogging marines, hordes and not too many transports, then Railheads are still viable (as they were then), but the competetive scene is about 75% MEQ, and my home scene is 100% MEQ - all mechanised of course.

Are you serious? Broadsides are nice but are immobile, unadaptative. A hammerhead with a multi-tracker can adapt to any surprise from the enemy and that's the strenght and only hope of Tau : adaptability. And in this game, adaptability is pretty much the same thing than mobility. I mean, don't you ever get your 6 broadsides easily screwed by deep striking units? I agree with IAMNOTHERE, 3 is generally enough.

[Fraf]

Broadsides are nice but are immobile, unadaptative.

Advanced stabilisation sustems are your friends. Also their railguns don't get easily shut down by any glancing or penetrating damage (except immobilised)

A hammerhead with a multi-tracker can adapt to any surprise from the enemy

but this adaptability has a cost : one heavy support slot and the hammerhead itself is quite pricey for a single-weapon MBT (see drawback I just mentioned). Finally, the breakpoint for taking a hammerhead or goinf full broadside is : is it competitive play or not.
In a friendly and/or local tournament environment, you're likely to face any opponent, inclusing horde, so the hammerhead is justified. In a heavily competitive environment, horde armies are rare and mechspam is everywhere, so you just can't afford the points nor the heavy support slot for anything other than broadsides. adaptability is found elsewere in the FoC (hint : elite slot)

3 is generally enough.

you have probably never met a true competitive mechspam list. It's not about being screwed up by deepstrikers, it's about getting enough stopping power by volume of fire to shut down enemy transports before they unload their nasty content on your little blue dudes.

[blurrymadness]

Are you serious? Broadsides are nice but are immobile, unadaptative. A hammerhead with a multi-tracker can adapt to any surprise from the enemy and that's the strenght and only hope of Tau : adaptability. And in this game, adaptability is pretty much the same thing than mobility. I mean, don't you ever get your 6 broadsides easily screwed by deep striking units? I agree with IAMNOTHERE, 3 is generally enough.

I'd be the type to take 6-9 from 1500-2000. Why do you need adaptability if you have 3 sets of them PLUS you have suits to adapt? Standard suits will often have a mix of Pods and Blasters meaning you can go pop vehicles Broadsides can't (which should be rare anyway.) Further, Broadsides have extreme range and target locks. Add those two together and put them at the *corners* of firing lanes (if they can get two firing lanes out of it.) Basically you shouldn't need to adapt if you have enough of them. I like mobility, but I like raw-firepower better. If you use raw firepower efficiently is should better in such extreme comparisons. Let us not forget that broadsides can move and shoot SMS (iirc) and those are actually decent against light armored infantry (as you'll deny half their resources for cover.) I'd actually wager that Broadsides are better in 5th against infantry than railheads when it comes to hordes as you can hide 'n' shoot all day. Railheads have to reveal themselves to AT fire and are likely not denying the enemies' cover. I run an IG horde and can imagine both units being a pain; but it only takes one good round of shooting against a Railhead to knock it out; broadsides I'd have to run through a hail of fire while they backpedal out of LOS and likely.. I'd never get to 'em.

Lists I would imagine taking are something like 15-20 suits, with 6-9 broadsides, then some kroot or firewarriors. this is basically what's expected but if you're launching 20-40 S7 shots downrange alongside your 9 TLd S10 AP1, you shouldn't be having vehicle issues. If you don't have vehicle issues, you probably don't have issues :P.