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Thread: Tactica: Troll King's Horde

  1. #1

    Tactica: Troll King's Horde

    Well, I decided to make this thread to put together a tactical consideration of Throgg and his altered Warriors of Chaos Army List as no one else has seemed to do this. So, I'm going to run through the choices for his list (excluding special characters as I find them subjective).

    Lord Choices:
    Chaos Lord - I know a lot of people don't like the Chaos Lord, because he's really expensive. And I have to agree. 100 points more for a point more in a couple stats over Exalted Hero? I'd rather spend my points elsewhere, especially in a Troll King army as your troops can get quite expensive.

    Sorcerer Lord - An interesting lord choice - a must if you want to dominate the magic phase. Level 4 mage with the body of a chosen is nice, + the decent wounds characteristic means he's there to stay. As for lore choices, I've found nurgle to be the best. It has quite a few deadly numbers, such as spell #1 on the list - a must have for elite unit killing. Lore of fire could serve you well, especially with the Flaming Sword spell if you're put into CC. Shadow and Death also have some good options to consider. Marks to consider would be Tzeench or Nurgle. Since I favor Nurgle's spell list, I'm going to have to say nurgle, but the +1 casting bonus from Tzeench is nice as well. However, when considering a sorcerer lord, you really have to ask yourself whether the position could be filled with a regular Sorcerer of Chaos. They're nice, but expensive.

    Daemon Prince - Has the same problems as the Chaos Lord - Way too expensive!!! I mean, yeah, if you're playing 3,000 points, a Daemon Prince would be killer, but in anything less, leave the model at home. Troops will win you games, not some uber-polished Daemon.

    Hero Choices:
    Throgg, Troll King - The centerpiece of this army list. He not only makes Trolls core choices, but he's a killer all on his own. For under 200 points, you get a super troll with even better strength and tougness. On top of that, his Vomit ability is D6 instead of 1, and he has the super-regeneration w/ eye of the gods bonus just like the other trolls. His leadership abilities to Trolls and Ogres are just the cherry on top. Even in armies that aren't playing with trolls as troops, he should be considered as a strong choice.

    Exalted Hero - While an amazing choice in any Warriors of Chaos army list, the Exalted Hero doesn't shine as much in a Troll King list. If you plan on bringing mortals along with your trolls, he's definitely a strong candidate for leading them up. Good leadership and a variety of ways to put him together means he really can be tooled to whatever you need.

    Sorcerer of Chaos - You need at least one of these in your list, and probably two or three in a 2000 point list. Magic is quite deadly nowadays with Dark Elves, High Elves, and Empire. You need some protection for your guys, and if you bring enough, swing the winds of magic in your favor. For mark and lore advice, go up to the Sorcerer Lord entry.

    Core -
    Trolls - This is the staple of the army. With Throgg, they're core and a must have. At first glance, Trolls may seem boring. More expensive ogres with no options and regeneration. But if you look at them, they're an amazing toolbox unit. Fighting a bunch of rank-and-file lackeys? Use their normal attacks, you'll mow them down with quantity and strength. Fighting some elite super-troops? Vomit all over them, and don't worry about having to hit or them passing on armor. At S5, you'll most likely wound anyways. And they're magical, just in case you wanted to hit etherials with it. That's just their offensive capability.

    Now, on to their regeneration. A 50/50 shot of shrugging off every wound they take is quite impressive. And since they have no armor, you'll rely on it a lot. But the best part is that unlike armor, it can't be reduced to a lesser chance of survival. On top of that, if they make two or more regenerations in a given turn, you get a roll on the Eye of the Gods table. Good times.

    There's only a few downsides to Trolls, but you really have to be careful about them. One - they're expensive. And while they can still get their licks in after a hard charge, don't expect them to take everything your opponent throws at them. Set up charges with bait units and careful movement. Secondly, stupidity is a killer. Make sure that you have some high leadership character nearby ao keep order with your trolls. Better yet, have Throgg join a large unit of trolls (either 5 or 8) for a deadly unit.

    Chaos Warhounds - These are a godsend. Dirt cheap and faster than your trolls, these make excellent bait. Run them in units of 5 up ahead of your trolls to screen. Then either pull them out and hit with the trolls for a nice 'bait and switch' or even let them die, they're so cheap. A must have in a Throgg list.

    Chaos Marauders - Marauders are probably your best choice if you want to include some humans in your list. The fact that they're extremely inexpensive and are easy to put into blocks of 20 makes them a good choice to balance out trolls. If you're willing to spend a couple extra points for Shield and Light armor, they're solid light infantry units that can supplement the trolls. Get a Standard Bearer and Musician for CR, champion if you've got some points to waste. As for marks, I'd stay away from Tzeench and Khorne - they're too instable for your marauders. Nurgle is nice with the -1 to hit from shooting/ -1 to ws for opponents, and Slaanesh makes your guys hard to put on the run. It's a big cost for a cheap unit, but if you're going to run a unit of 20, it's nice to have a bit of insurance on them.

    Chaos Warriors - They're nice, hard-hitting units, but they don't run well with the Troll King. They're too expensive if you're running trolls, an not good enough. If you want a spearhead unit to run an Exalted with, take Chosen. For 3 points more, they're a much better escort.

    Marauder Horsemen - They're an interesting alternative to Chaos Warhounds. Being twice as expensive, they don't do well as bait, but they can pack a punch and hold up enemy units for your trolls to make a devastating flank charge. Really a preference unit.

    Special Choices -
    Chosen - Expensive, but powerful. The only time you should take these is if you want something to go with your nifty foot slogging Exalted. Personally, I think it detracts from the fun of this army to run this, but a viable variant. The roll on the Eye of the Gods table is worth the three points almost all the time (Unless you get a 2). The extra weapon skill is pretty good too. They have toolbox choices like Marauders or the Chaos Warriors, with Halberds and Shields the best way to go.

    Forsaken - Meh. I haven't used these guys because I think they're too random. In my opinion, if you're shelling out that many points per model, you might as well get Chosen. But who knows? You opponent may underestimate them, and you roll a 3 on the D3 attacks and slaughter. It's a bit random and unreliable.

    Chaos Chariot - I like this special choice. It's even faster than your trolls and is a clear threat to the opponent. Slam one of these babies into the middle of their line, and just tear them apart with your other units the next turn. A bit expensive in my opinion, but they have a devastating potential.

    Ogres - Now, there's a difficult choice here. Either use these Ogres in the WoC list, and be able to give them marks, or go the Ogre Kingdoms list and get them w/ bull charge and a larger equipment list. I think that the clear choice is the Ogres already in the book. Great Weapon and Chaos armor is a deadly combo for being just a bit more expensive than a troll. On top of that, giving them marks just makes it better. Here, I would say either Khorne or Nurgle are your best picks. Khorne if you don't care where they go, and just want a wrecking ball, Nurgle if you want them to last. (John Wayne II)

    Dragon Ogres - Sure, they're more expensive than Ogres, but they're faster, have better WS and Ld, and they can get those sweet strength 7 attacks on the charge. They're worth their weight in gold if you are going against a Knight heavy list or a list with lots of big, gribbly things. (John Wayne II)

    Chaos Knights - They're always a strong pick, but in a Troll list, you've already got fast heavy hitters. If you really feel the need for speed, go for them. They've got a lot of high strength attacks and can get marks. Once again, Khorne or Nurgle. Khorne is a dangerous way to go, but if you use them judiciously, they are a devastating sight to behold.

    Rare Choices -
    Chaos Spawns - Chaos Spawn are Unbreakable. This means they can potentially hold a flank on their own, something even Trolls can't manage. A little bit slow but nonetheless they're quite good. (John Wayne II)

    Scyla Anfingrimm - Like Chaos spawns. But I'd rather take 2 chaos spawns then him, just for the damage output. 2d6+2 S4 attacks or d6+2 s5 attacks? I'll let you choose.

    Chaos Warshrine - I don't admittedly have much experience with this. It seems very promising, but you have to consider that the trolls will already be receiving a multitude of Eye of the Gods rolls. If you want to beef up another unit such as Ogres, Marauders, or Chosen, then go for it. I'm just worried that it's a bit too expensive.

    Hellcannon - Our only really Long-Range weapon. Nice artillery with a cool misfire table. In a Troll list, you're already moving very fast, so this isn't really as good. You don't have much better to do with your rare choices, but there's a multitude of other ways to use your points.

    Dragon Ogre Shaggoth - Big, fast (for chaos), and hits targets like a freight train. However, it's too expensive. If you do want to use him, give him a Great Weapon. Strength 8 is just wonderful on them.

    Giant - Giants are GREAT, specially the Chaos variant. This can keep up with your main fighting blocks, it's a great fighter, is Ld Stubborn (so it can hold a flank on its own, like the Spawn) and it's a Terror Cause, which is great if your going against anything that is not ItP or Slaanesh. The best marks are the MoS (Strike First Stuff Down pants always brings out the lols) and the MoN (a Giant's great weakness is shooting, the MoN helps it reach the enemy lines AND it helps him out in combat). (John Wayne II).

    If you're looking for inspiration for a Troll King model, then heres a great thread from the Fantasy Project Section: Troll King Project

    And that's all I have so far. I'm going to go into tactics later, but I've already spent so much time on this. If anyone is interested in contributing, feel free. This is a really cool way to play, and it would be great if we established a tactica for it.
    Last edited by GrandDukeJerot; 19-11-2008 at 12:47.
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  2. #2
    Veteran Sergeant scoopdeta's Avatar
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    Re: Tactica: Troll King's Horde

    Lets see a list with some actual tactics. I mean the summary of all the units in the new WoC book was great, but as far as actual tactics for a troll king army (and what it would look like) is what I wanted to see. I just played my first game with my new WoC army and it went well but not that well. I had 8 trolls 2xunits of 4 a piece with throgg in one of them. I didnt think they would roll stupid that much but they still did even with the 8+ LD...maybe just bad rolls. EIther way it stunted them. I used the front unit to screen the back one so if the front was stupid the back wasnt moving far either. I was playing a shooty empire thats why I did that. But seriously I didnt get too much benefit from the trolls. Just curious on how you would handle this.

  3. #3

    Re: Tactica: Troll King's Horde

    Yeah, I'm going to add some tactics, I was just weary from typing the whole unit uses. I'll have it up soon.
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  4. #4
    Chapter Master Urgat's Avatar
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    Re: Tactica: Troll King's Horde

    My list is giong to be as follow:
    Throgg
    a sorcerer (I'll use the dark emissary mini, looks quite feral)

    2 or 3 units of chaos hounds - or more if 2k+

    as many ogres I can fit in the special choices

    a giant or a shaggoth -or both if 2k+ (I got a giant troll to stand for either)

    and the rest, obviously, will be trolls.

    If possible, in the distant future, some forsakens with appropriate conversions (would have been nice to use the bearmen, but they're too expensive on ebay).

    trying to make it fluffy there, I'll have to see if the sorcerer is needed or if he can go. But considering how magic is going these days, I don't think the later will be a smart move.

    tactic is simple:

    the hounds will be used to redirect what could be nasty to trolls: not exactly heavy cavalry and the likes, for once, more RnF troops. These are more dangerous to trolls, really. They will also provide sgielding against missiles if possible

    The sorcerer will be mainly for dispelling.

    The rest will get in combat as fast as possible.

    Pretty simple, really

  5. #5
    Chapter Master Braad's Avatar
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    Re: Tactica: Troll King's Horde

    My advise would by: don't rely only on the troll king for leadership. If he does, you got a whole army that will act very stupid. Include at least a few characters to join with units, and a couple that don't have stupidity like dragon ogres.

    Otherwise throgg will be a very juicy target.
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  6. #6

    Re: Tactica: Troll King's Horde

    Yeah, that's my worry. Right now, I use a sort of Troll formation around Throgg that works like this: Pick a point to place Throgg. From there, have 2 units of trolls in front of him, and 2 units of trolls to the side. This forms a sort of anti-stupidity escort that can easily part a bit for him when wheeling on the charge. The thing you have to worry about is flying units w/terror, because they can really screw this little formation. That's why I'd consider a unit of Slaanesh Ogres (really don't want to think about what they look like) instead of a unit of one of those trolls.

    Another option is to keep a Sorcerer near a unit of trolls. Either on a Steed or a Disk (if you're playing Tzeench), they can easily keep within range of the trolls while still being safely removed from combat. If you're going to do this, it'd probably be best to spend no points on then just in case your opponent tries to pick them out. I'd go for sorcerers over Exalted heroes, because they're a lot cheaper.

    And remember, if you are playing Troll Kings horde, you should make use of your special choices. Chaos Ogres and Chariots are bomb in this list.

    Edit:

    I also put together a good build for a Tzeench Sorc for babysitting trolls.

    Sorcerer of Chaos - 150
    MoT, Golden Eye of Tzeench, Disc of Tzeench

    This may be expensive, but it's a dead useful unit for babysitting trolls. A 3+ ward save flier is basically immune to any of the big guns (at least until you can figure out what to do with them). However, he still doesn't work out so well in CC, so you would probably want to get him the heck out of there if you thought there was going to be a charge against him.
    Last edited by GrandDukeJerot; 17-11-2008 at 13:08.
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  7. #7

    Re: Tactica: Troll King's Horde

    So, I guess it's time for some tactics. Rather than just belt out a blueprint for playing, I'm going to bring up the important questions that you'll run into when trying to play this list.

    First question - how do you deal with Troll Stupidity?
    Answer - This is really a big problem for for your army. If they're all drooling copiously and just shuffling forward, you're really screwed. Which is why you need to babysit your trolls. The first and foremost way of taking care of this is to pick a general, which is crucial in controlling them.

    Throgg is not the ideal choice as General. Trolls, Ogres, and Warhounds can already use his leadership, so don't pick him. Take a regular choice.

    I would recommend the SoC i suggested above, for its superior mobility and good Ld 8. If you really want to make him nasty, upgrade him to level 2 so that he can fight back better. Exalted heroes are a sub-optimal choice, as they are more expensive than a Sorcerer. However, if you want to use him as a CC punch (which you don't really need), he could be an interesting alternative.

    Lord Choices aren't as appealing, much like how I stated in the unit entries. However, the extra leadership is nice.

    Question - Chaos Ogres or Ogre Kingdoms?
    Answer - This is very much a personal preference. Personally, I prefer the weapon loadouts for Ogres in the WoC book, and the marks are nice. However, the bull charge rule is killer if you really decide to utilize it. If you play against a lot of ASF units (High Elves, etc), you may want to consider using the bull charge to pre-emptively taking out their front row so the ASF doesn't hurt so much really a personal choice, I still like Trolls the best

    Question - What does your line look like?
    Well, when I run the list, I have Throgg flanked by 2 units of 3 Trolls each, and potentially two more units flanking those (if you've got points). That way, I have a solid line with Throgg to protect against stupidity. Repeat with the general, although if you're using a SoC as the general, they should probably be in the back. Run next to those formations should be some small units of 5 warhounds of Chaos. 30 points for bait/charge blocking is dead useful. Then, some trolls off to the other side as a hard, reliable unit that doesn't have to test for stupidity.

    Question - How do you deal with shooting?
    Regeneration, and move up as quickly as possible.

    And that's all the tactical thoughts I have in my head right now. Please comment/add your own thoughts on the strategy so I can re-collect my thoughts to write more.
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  8. #8
    Chaplain Devon Harmon's Avatar
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    Re: Tactica: Troll King's Horde

    I've got a couple of questions:

    1. What model are people using to represent Throgg?

    2. Why the mention of taking Ogre Kingdom Ogres? Where is this allowed?

    3. What is the conventional wisdom on how many trolls/ogres to have in a unit. I can't decide to run units of 3 or 4.
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  9. #9

    Re: Tactica: Troll King's Horde

    Shooting is probably the smallest problem a horde of trolls would have. 4+ save against even bolt throwers and cannons, rolls on the EOTG table for regening lots of weaker missile fire, and M6 or better all around to close the distance fast. Flaming missiles are much more dangerous, but these tend to be few and far between and will rarely be enough to stop a whole line of monsters.

    Magic, on the other hand, is a much bigger problem. Lots of flaming magic missiles, spells to cripple us in combat, spells to slow us down, spells to help the opponent flank us, all exacerbated by low magic defense. The only solution is to move fast and hit hard.

  10. #10

    Re: Tactica: Troll King's Horde

    @ Harmon: For the troll issue, I run 3. Four is just a bit too large and unwieldy for my opinion, and more units are a better way to go if you can get around the whole 'stupidity' thing on trolls.

    As to your question about using Ogres, there's the Dogs of War rule that says that you can use certain Ogre Kingdom units as rare choices in other armies.

    @ Kalec: Yeah, flaming attacks blow monkey chunks, especially in Magic form. I like taking 3 level 2 sorcs with a couple of dispel scrolls anyways, though, so their magic doesn't hurt too bad (at least early in the game). So, you need to move as fast as possible to lock up before your magic defenses crap out.
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  11. #11
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    Re: Tactica: Troll King's Horde

    Some minor points:

    1. I think you are seriously underestimating Dragon Ogres. Sure, they're more expensive than Ogres, but they're faster, have better WS and LD, and they can get those sweet strength 7 attacks on the charge. They're worth their weight in gold if you are going against a Knight heavy list or a list with lots of big, gribbly things.

    2. Your advice on Chaos Ogre weapon loadout is all wrong. You should ALWAYS give your Chaos Ogres GWs. They are better than the extra hand weapon in just about any situation. Do the math.

    3. Chaos Spawn are Unbreakable. This means they can potentially hold a flank on their own, something even Trolls can't manage. A little bit slow but nonetheless they're quite good.

    4. Giants are GREAT, specially the Chaos variant. This baby can keep up with your main fighting blocks, it's a great fighter, is LD 10 Stubborn (so it can hold a flank on its own, like the Spawn) and it's a Terror Causer, which is great if your going against anything that is not ItP or Slaanesh. The best marks are the MoS (Strike First Stuff Down pants always brings out the lols) and the MoN (a Giant's great weakness is shooting, the MoN helps it reach the enemy lines AND it helps him out in combat).
    Last edited by John Wayne II; 19-11-2008 at 13:25.

  12. #12

    Re: Tactica: Troll King's Horde

    Thanks for the advice, John Wayne. I added it to the thread's first post and credited you on the entries that you added to. I also wanted to ask people something that I thought about when looking at this. This list has very limited ranged capabilities being chaos. Has anyone considered using Leadbelchers from Ogre Kingdoms? They can hold themselves well in CC with all the advantages of being an Ogre, but also has some mad-fun ranged capabilities. I haven't had the opportunity to try them myself. If you guys have some experience with them, than I'd like to hear!
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  13. #13

    Re: Tactica: Troll King's Horde

    Hey, guys, I just found a great addition to the tactica. If you're looking for inspiration for a Troll King model, then heres a great thread from the Fantasy Project Section: Troll King Project/ I know it's not exactly tactics related, but since there are no actual model for the Troll King and there has been quite some interest on what to do for the model, I thought I'd put it up.
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  14. #14

    Re: Tactica: Troll King's Horde

    Don't you have to have an entry in your Army book that specifically allows DoW units to get DoW units (including DoW ogres)?

    The older books like dwarfs show an entry under rares for DoW units, but the newer books do not have this entry, so afaik you can't take DoW units with WoC armies.

    Otherwise here is my TrollKing list:

    kholek
    throgg
    Sorc, Chaos Steed, dispel scroll, warrior familiar, blood curdling roar, biting blade, MoTz

    6 Warhounds
    6 Warhounds

    5 marauder horse with flails and LA , champ and music, MoS
    3 Trolls
    3 Trolls

    6 Ogres with Chaos armor and great weapon, Music, SB, MoK

    3 Dragon Ogres

    1 Giant, MoS

    The ogre unit would act as Throgg's bodyguard, with each unit of trolls on either side. Giant, and marauders w/sorc on one flank, and DOs and Kholek on the other flank (but these of course could change based on deployment), and the dogs float out front to delay/redeploy charges.

    I think the ogre bodyguard is a good strategy so you can get more than 5 models for look out sirs, and such.

    Sorc may be too mutli-tasked, with the ranged attack, and some decent melee ability, but if the marauders are in melee then the sorc will definately be fighting as well.
    Last edited by n10cd1; 19-11-2008 at 21:41.

  15. #15

    Re: Tactica: Troll King's Horde

    I haven't tried this yet, but what do you guys think of having Valkia and 2 warshrines in your Throgg army? Being able to reroll all results on the EoTG for mutant regen and the shrines seems like it could lead to some pretty interesting results.

    On top of that she is pretty useful as a flyer with good LD and a nasty charge.

  16. #16

    Re: Tactica: Troll King's Horde

    Taking Throgg, Valkia, and two warshrines means you will not have many points to spend on troops or magic defense, both of which are vital for a monster-based army to succeed.

  17. #17

    Re: Tactica: Troll King's Horde

    Hey everyone, thought I would post the list I just finished building.
    I put together the Shaggoth last night and the army is all assembled. Hopefully I can play my first game with today.

    Daemon Prince - lvl 4 Lore of Fire, Tendrils of Tz, Bloodcurdling Roar, Homunculus
    Sorceror - Lvl 2, MoTz, Disc, Bronze Armor, Infernal Puppet
    Throgg

    3 Trolls
    3 Trolls
    3 Trolls
    5 Warhounds
    5 Warhounds

    3 Ogres - Chaos Armor, Great Weapons
    3 Ogres - Chaos Armor, Great Weapons
    4 Ogres - Chaos Armor, Extra Hand Weapons

    Shaggoth - Extra Hand Weapon

    I have enough points left over for another 5 warhounds, which I will probably gets later.
    I'll let you all know how a game goes.
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  18. #18

    Re: Tactica: Troll King's Horde

    @ n10cd1: I checked, and yeah, chaos can't take ogres. Still, that's fine, because we've got a bunch of good choices anyways. It just means that we have to rely on our mobility and CC prowess to win the day.

    @ shartmatau: I would drop the unit of 4 ogres to 3, and use the points saved to give the remaining GWs, as well as the Shaggoth. Daemon princes are waaaaay too pricey, get a L4 Sorc Lord and another L2 sorc for the points (and with whatever you have left over, get some warhounds/ trolls). It looks nice, otherwise, though. And yeah, let us know how it goes.
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  19. #19

    Re: Tactica: Troll King's Horde

    Well, here's the partial list I'm making so far, trying to exclude mortals from the list to give it a true feel of the Troll King's monster horde.

    However, I'm wondering exactly how competitive this list is without more chaos mortals in it? I'm going with the whole monster theme and only took the sorcs for magic defense and leadership primarily. I figure the list will play a lot like Ogre Kingdoms, with multiple MSU units having to work together to take down hard units.

    Sorcerer Lord - lvl 4
    Sorcerer - lvl 2 (scroll caddy)
    Throgg the Troll King

    3 Chaos Trolls
    3 Chaos Trolls
    3 Chaos Trolls
    3 Chaos Trolls
    5 Chaos Warhounds
    5 Chaos Warhounds

    3 Dragon Ogres
    1 Dragon Ogre Shaggoth

    I prefer the Shaggoth to the Chaos Giant (personal fluff reasons)

    We'll see how it goes, might have a friend come over and use either my TK, WE, or Lizzies against the list to see how it plays.

    I'll give props to GW, I love when they do these fun themed armies that add flavor to the game.
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  20. #20

    Re: Tactica: Troll King's Horde

    I played against a regular WoC list the other day, and it went pretty well. My trolls broke up most stuff while my sorcs got his knights of Khorne pretty bad with the level 1 Nurgle spell. I think that there's a lot of issues with ranges (obviously), so I'm going to play my freind's mixed shooty/cc DE list this weekend. My main worry is that he uses War Hydras which have flaming attacks. I'm planning to just hit it with Ogres until it dies, but I was wondering if any other Troll King players had found a way around the 'no regeneration blues'
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