The V edition Space Marine Codex and the Warseers

[TWB]

Brothers!
You can't have failed to notice the Space Marines have a new Codex, this means there is a certain amount of re-organising that needs doing.
I'm opening up this general discussion thread to allow people to discuss the changes and their effect on the Warseers chapter.

Specific areas of interest include:
Special Characters, Should they be used or not?
Veteran Company, it now consists of three distinct units (you could argue that it's four), How do we split the 1st company up?
Traits, Now they are gone, what do we do?


I've got my own thoughts on these subjects but want to hear what you guys think, I'm hoping that this thread will bear some interesting fruit, Particularly excellent questions or ideas will be rewarded and feel free to bring up any other appropriate subject.

[Shangrila]

if you mean like captain shrike type special characters then i would say no for subissions from memebers.(although to deal with the traits thing give the chapter special rules of some one.)
Veterans ide say 20 sternguard 30 vanguard and 30 normal termies with 20 assualt termies.

[kishvier]

Can we get a Chaos Legion going? I've tried multiple times to get one going and still want to see it happen.

[TWB]

if you mean like captain shrike type special characters then i would say no for subissions from memebers.(although to deal with the traits thing give the chapter special rules of some one.)
Veterans ide say 20 sternguard 30 vanguard and 30 normal termies with 20 assualt termies.

I was talking about including the Special Characters that are in the SM Codex (suitably renamed) as various personalities in the Warseers.
Are your Numbers for the 1st Co based on any particular principal or idea? I would personally be tempted by more Sternguard and less Vanguard, possibly less terminators too.

Can we get a Chaos Legion going? I've tried multiple times to get one going and still want to see it happen.

Well, it would have to be a renegade chapter as all of the Legions are spoken for
I think we're better off trying to get the Warseers sorted out before trying our luck with a second project.

[Shangrila]

I was talking about including the Special Characters that are in the SM Codex (suitably renamed) as various personalities in the Warseers.
Are your Numbers for the 1st Co based on any particular principal or idea? I would personally be tempted by more Sternguard and less Vanguard, possibly less terminators too.

I was just throwing out numbers. but i think that the ratio would be affected by what special characters your take. naturally if we have vulkan and lysander wede have alot of sternguard and all the assualt termies should have thunder hammers/storm sheilds.

What special characters are you considering?

[Captain Plowman]

I would keep as many Terminators in the 1st company as possible, with a small corps of Sternguards and Vanguards.

[McMullet]

I would have suggested the most sensible option is to count up how many models are being donated for sternguard/vanguard/termies and then decide on some fluff to back it up. As it is, it looks like less than half the 1st co. will actually be accounted for anyway, so it's academic.

It might be worth asking the current vets if they want to change their submission in any way (mine's about 3/4 finished so I'm still a bloke with a meltagun - Sternguard I guess).

Another problem is sergeants - all sergeants are now veterans, so either more of the vets need to be attached to squads or vet sergeant positions need to be given to non-guild members.

[Ixajin]

Another problem is sergeants - all sergeants are now veterans, so either more of the vets need to be attached to squads or vet sergeant positions need to be given to non-guild members.

And what happens to the Sergeants that were not considered Veteran Sergeants?

[Oxford]

What about the guys in a command squad - we have 10 signed up in the 5th company - and only 5 spaces for them. Could the other 5 be promoted to Sternguard or shifted sideways to become Sergeants (assuming they want to be)?

[McMullet]

And what happens to the Sergeants that were not considered Veteran Sergeants?

How about only guilder sergeants are allowed to take wargear? That way we have regular sergeants, even if they technically have veteran stats.

[TWB]

I would keep as many Terminators in the 1st company as possible, with a small corps of Sternguards and Vanguards.

See, I always preferred the idea that newer Chapters had less Termi Armour available than older, better established Chapters.
Anyway, would a starting point of 25% share of each be a good starting point, for discussion purposes?

I would have suggested the most sensible option is to count up how many models are being donated for sternguard/vanguard/termies and then decide on some fluff to back it up. As it is, it looks like less than half the 1st co. will actually be accounted for anyway, so it's academic.

It might be worth asking the current vets if they want to change their submission in any way (mine's about 3/4 finished so I'm still a bloke with a meltagun - Sternguard I guess).

I think you may be right McMullet, as you say, the Vet Co isn't very full so it will largely be a academic exercise to start with but it will affect late comers. I'll say Vets, if they are still out there, will be entitled to change their 1st Co Marine to fit into one of the categories and then we may have a clue as to the make-up of the Company.

Another problem is sergeants - all sergeants are now veterans, so either more of the vets need to be attached to squads or vet sergeant positions need to be given to non-guild members.

And what happens to the Sergeants that were not considered Veteran Sergeants?

Quoted together as they both address the same point...

The original Distinction of Vet Sgt/Sgt was entirely there to enable Guilders to supply the more "heroic" models, this thinking still stands and I think it would be easy enough to limit non guild Sergeants to the Bolter/Boltpistol/Chainsword options and leave Combi-weapons/Power weapons/plasmapistols ect to the Guilders. The only option I can see is placing Guild Sergeants in Companies 2-4 (5 is a special case) and non guild sergeants into the reserve companies. The first option is by far the easiest but I'm coming to the realisation that there may just have to be a titanic re-organisation to clear out spaces that aren't going to be filled any more either by banning or just subsequent absence from the forum, so the latter may actually be an easier option in the long run.
Input on this particular aspect will be most appreciated as, having been absent myself, I don't really know who's about any more.
On the plus side I will be pruning the HQ ranks of non participants (and making a few new slots), so there is plenty of room for promotion.

On special Characters:
Special Characters have had a chequered past in 40K, going from essential inclusions to powergamer only tools and then back again. Now that special Characters are integral in the Codex and in some instances, integral to army build I am inclined to include them all carte blanche, providing they are appropriately adapted to the Warseers (No Vulkan Hestan of the Warseers, but maybe Techmarine Bazzargle or something). I like the idea of allowing the 8th Co the opportunity to be lead by an assault veteran bearing a similarity to Shrike or a 6th Co Battle force being led out to battle by a chap who has a certain resemblance to Kor'sarro Khan and so on.
But then the question is, which Chapter Master do we use?

And where do the Legion of the Damned factor in?

[Gen.Steiner]

Special characters are, sadly, now required to be able to field certain forces (e.g. Deathwing, Ravenwing, etc). For sanity's sake, I suggest making certain of our company captains 'special' characters. That, as TWB has pointed out, will enable us to field all-bike armies and so on.

With regards to the Legion of the Damned, we only need 10, so maybe the top ten posters could donate them?

[Dark Magos Gillam]

Why not use special characters? As long as they fit the theme of the chapter. Like I don't think a Deathwing character would be a good choice due to the availability of termies to a new chapter(gotta agree with TWB on that one).

But with the Vet. Sgt. thing.....although I would really like to do some sort of Hero character.....the guild members should be filling the slot, if any are left open then they could doled out to non guild members(like me).

The Legion of the Damned would be an intresting addition. Who would be able to get in on that? I'd love to put my name on the list if possible.

Oh....one last thing, I signed up with the 6th company.........but how do I know what I am supposed to do, what marine am I doin?

[sigur]

[color=#8999bb]

Special Characters, Should they be used or not?
Veteran Company, it now consists of three distinct units (you could argue that it's four), How do we split the 1st company up?
Traits, Now they are gone, what do we do?
...

a.) No special characters. We have our own ones. But I don't think that we should make up rules for them or anything.
b.) This is a tricky one. I'm a bit rusty on Space Marines but you're referring to Terminators, Assault Terminators, Sternguard and Vanguard, right?
c.) Well no traits then.

@Dark Magos Gillam: A Space Marine with a Bolter in his hands.

[Ser_Spazz]

A Space Marine with a Bolter in his hand is gonna be the core of this endeavor one way or another, and that's just gotta be something everyone gets comfortable with. Leave the Guilder positions as any Vet or Sergeant Position with special issue wargear, and maybe Companies 1-4. Everyone else that applies for a Sergeant Position will get the Bolter, Chainsword and Bolt Pistol treatment as an "untested (unguilded)" Sergeant who hasn't earned wargear yet. Hell, just to be a normal bolter marine would be an honor, or an Assault Squad marine.

Traits are gone, and to be honest, they will be missed. But now we have Chapter Masters, who have their own traits to bestow to an army. Maybe give certain special people in Warseer the "counts as" treatment to their favorite of the Chapter Masters/Captains.

The Spaz

[Warlord Nazgred]

mabye we could make up special characters and give them rules according to the chapter backround (if we have any and if we dont we can make that up) like the chapter tactics special rule on certain characters so there would be named libarians, captains, chaplains,techmarines the list is endless really

[Müller]

Special characters COULD be based off certain individuals here on Warseer, seeing as this represents US... IE. Webmaster = company master of the forge, Admin = Inquisitor (or Company Commander), etc. And then we'd write up fluff about them and they (hopefully) will want to the painting and modelling of their own character themselves, but can be done by volunteer should it be needed. That way we have the opporunity to take the Warseer chapter even one step further fluffwise as well as modelwise

[Atherakhia]

you know, I completely forgot about this the first time i was here. Am I still too late to join?

I've registered a name already, Damien Baylock, but I don't know if i'm in a company, squad, whatever....

[Brother Xeron]

on the fluff side of things, as a crusading chapter i think perhaps there would be only a few suits of the hallowed terminator armour around, so maybe almost all of the 1st company should be power armoured with only the commander and his retinue, and the chaplain and his retinue in termie armour. So 20 suits in total?

What do you think guys?

Brother Xeron

[MasterlessExlie]

yer that looks nice