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Thread: Warmachine... What is it?

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    Chaplain Brother xavier's Avatar
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    Warmachine... What is it?

    Hi, yesterday I was offered the opportunity to be given a warmachine army instead of a warhammer 40K box of a unknown model vehicle( maybe a Landspeede tornado?) and I was woundering what Warmachine is like, what the prices are compared to warhammer games i.e. are they cheaper etc. and what the rules are like compared to warhammer. If any of you could help it would be be appreciated.
    Thanks in advance

  2. #2

    Re: Warmachine... What is it?

    Check the big thread related to this.
    The basics:

    1) WARMACHINE (always all caps ) is cheaper than gw, and you use smaller armies.
    2) EVERYTHING is broken. Yup. Given the right circumstances, every unit/warjack can cause horrendous casualties.
    3) Armies are based around your warcaster, your mage/warrior/jack controller general. They are all "named" characters and can really tear things up. If they die, you lose (usually)
    4) Steamjacks! They're what get a lot of people into the game and are brilliant models.
    5) factions: only five of them, if you include mercs. This is good since each factions has about half again more entries than a 40K equivalent and you'll probably want to learn at least the basics for most of these units. Surprises can and will cost you games.

    Finally, and most importantly, 6). In 40K you can't use a dreadnought to pick up a terminator and throw him at the cowardly commander hiding behind some trees, knocking him over and following up byhaving every model in your army (nearly) autohit him with ranged fire .
    Nor could you use one dreadnought to slam another of your dreadnoughts into an enemy dreadnought, knocking it's arms off. Far cooler than 40K and no arguments about being realistic...
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  3. #3

    Re: Warmachine... What is it?

    WM is basically 40k for adults. The tactics and combos run much deeper plus the crowd is more mature.
    The models look far better and a full army of 1k points costs around $200. But many people play 500 points games. They can cost about $75, especially if you buy a boxed set. Unlike GW, when you buy a boxed set you actually get *gasp* a deal!

  4. #4

    Re: Warmachine... What is it?

    theres also HORDES coming out shortly, which is WARMCHINES feril twin, so much so that there compatable games, one based on big steam powered robots, the other based on rage driven uber beasts.

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    Chaplain Brother xavier's Avatar
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    Re: Warmachine... What is it?

    Quote Originally Posted by lynchpin667
    WM is basically 40k for adults. The tactics and combos run much deeper plus the crowd is more mature.
    The models look far better and a full army of 1k points costs around $200. But many people play 500 points games. They can cost about $75, especially if you buy a boxed set. Unlike GW, when you buy a boxed set you actually get *gasp* a deal!
    In what currency are those figures? I am in New Zealand.

  6. #6

    Re: Warmachine... What is it?

    Sounds like US prices. A good comparison is that for the same price as the current GW plastic boxes you can get a faction's starter box, with a complete army of about 350 points (give or take) and quickstart rules. (If someone can back that price comparison up, I'd appreciate it. Can't remember battlebox price off the top of my head)
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    Chaplain Alkony's Avatar
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    Re: Warmachine... What is it?

    That's correct, Riftwalker. Especially given that GW unit boxes are now US$35 (grumble grumble...)

    WARMACHINE turns go very differently than 40K, which allows order of operations to have an effect. i.e. Which unit you activate first can change how your army works.
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    Chapter Master devolutionary's Avatar
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    Re: Warmachine... What is it?

    Xavier, the boxes tend to run about NZ$90 in price (I was checking them out today) for 5-6 models (from what I saw).

    In the same vein as the original poster, I too am highly intrigued in this game. I like big robots, and I like quasi-undead, so yes, I think I will be playing this. However, I don't understand what I need.

    I saw a couple of Mercenary boxes (the big ones, with 5-6 models), I saw WARMACHINE Prime (main rulebook?), Apotheosis, faction decks, I mean what do I need and why?

    Help appreciated.
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  9. #9

    Re: Warmachine... What is it?

    Quote Originally Posted by devolutionary
    I saw a couple of Mercenary boxes (the big ones, with 5-6 models), I saw WARMACHINE Prime (main rulebook?), Apotheosis, faction decks, I mean what do I need and why?
    Each of the Faction starter boxes - Stryker (Cygnar), Deneghra (Cryx), Kreoss (Menoth), Sorcha (Khador), Magnus the Traitor (Mercenary), Gorten Grundback (Mercenary) - have everything one person needs to start playing. There are also some boxes that look like Faction boxes, but are just Mercenary units (like the Trollkin box); these are not "starter boxes".

    The starter boxes are balanced to play against each other, with about 300 points a piece, and are all good deals. They each also include the quick start rules, so you can start playing right out of the box - the boxes only have a warcaster and warjacks, so the QSR don't cover any rules involving non-jack units. The QSR are also available on the Privateer Press website for download: Click Here to get the Rules

    Prime is indeed the main rule book, and it is also essential, once you get the basics of the game down and want to expand beyond the contents of the box sets. Escalation and Apotheosis are the two expansion books they have out so far, and you'll probably want to get them eventually, but they aren't necessary to play the game.

    Unlike Warhammer or 40K, there aren't books for each army; all the rules for all of the original armies are in Prime, Escalation introduced the two Mercenary warcasters, and both Escalation and Apotheosis added units for all all of the factions (in equal numbers).

    Each Jack, Caster or Unit has a card that comes with the miniature, that has all of it's stats, rules and is also used to track the damage it takes. The Faction Decks you saw have new color versions of one of each card for each faction. They are entirely unnecessary (since the rules come with the mini and are in the book), but are just a cool looking bonus if you're really into your faction.

  10. #10
    Chapter Master devolutionary's Avatar
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    Re: Warmachine... What is it?

    Ahhh that explains so much! I appreciate that greatly. The idea of having an army done in a month or two is pleasing, since I need something <i>complete</i> to counter my 5 current army projects
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  11. #11
    Chaplain Brother xavier's Avatar
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    Re: Warmachine... What is it?

    I contacted the guy giving me the box set and I found out that it is one of the four main faction starter sets. After hearing how the red army is hard to use as they are slow and I need to use the units together to win, how two people I know are using Cryx and Cygnar I chose the protectorate as I was told they were well balanced and easy to use. He also said the boxes costs about NZ$80 and I get a warcaster, 2 small warjacks and a big warjack.
    He said that I should put the cards in those slips used for 'Magic: the Gathering' cards and use a white board marker to cross off the defence lost so I can rub it off at the end of the game.

    Do you think I've made the right decision as I haven't got the modes yet and have time to change my mind.
    Also how can I expand the army to 500pts with it directed towards defeating the Cryx (in the cheapest way possible while still having a good force) as that is the most likely army I will verse.
    Last edited by Brother xavier; 06-12-2005 at 05:38.

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    Chaplain Brother xavier's Avatar
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    Re: Warmachine... What is it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Alkony
    WARMACHINE turns go very differently than 40K, which allows order of operations to have an effect. i.e. Which unit you activate first can change how your army works.
    Can you please explain? . . .

  13. #13

    Re: Warmachine... What is it?

    By "red army" I assume you mean Khador? Yes they are slow, but many say they are the most straightforward to use. I think menoth are one of the most difficult forces to use effectively in the beginning. Thought after you get the hang of it Menoth is a very tough army to beat. The Warcaster you get in the box (Kreoss) is one of the best casters in the game. Crusader is a good and cheap heavy and almost all menoth lists use revenger because it has arcnode and some other nasty abilities. Repenter on the other hand is said to be the worst light jack menoth has and is not used very regularly outside boxset games.
    But I think you made the right choise. Menoth is a very good faction and fun to play with and against.

  14. #14
    Chaplain Alkony's Avatar
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    Re: Warmachine... What is it?

    I play Menoth. They're great fun, espcially if you love fire!
    The first addition to your army should be a maxed Choir (box plus blister). These make your jacks much more effective (+2 to hit and damage is great) or harder to damage (can't be shot at or can't be targeted by spells).

    As for the effect of which unit activates first...
    Unlike 40K, there are not phases (move, shoot, charge). Each unit/model has an activation. During that activation it amy move, then shoot or attack in melee. If it has the spell casting ability it may cast spells at any time during its activation.

    Play goes like this:
    *Player 1 turn begins. This time is called the "Maintanence Phase".
    *Player 1 allocates focus (i.e. decides where he wants to put his magic abilities, whether it's casting spells with his caster or boosting his jacks' attacks).
    *Player 1 activates his first unit. That unit (say it's a warjack) decides to move. If Player1 has placed a focus point on the jack, that focus may be spent to run (double movement) or charge (movement plus 3" and first melee attack is boosted). You may only charge models that are in your front arc (180* centered on the head) and that you have Line of Sight (LOS) to.
    -If you charge and cannot make it to the target to attack it, activation ends.
    -If you run, that is all you may do.

    *Next, Player 1 activated his Warcaster. He spends two focus to cast a spell (from the focus allocated to him at the start of the turn) that boosts the power of his second jack's ranged attacks. The warcaster then moves his full movement to stand behind a low wall. He can see over the wall, so he casts a spell at an enemy unit in range. He rolls 2d6 and adds his Focus stat. If that beats the enemy's Defense stat, he hits and the spell takes effect.

    *The warjack that had the spell cast on it by the warcaster now activates. It is in range of an enemy jack and decides to charge by spending one focus. After moving, the jack makes a roll to hit, adding 2d6 to its MAT (melee attack) stat. If this equals or exceeds the target's defense, he hits. Because he charged, his first damage roll gets an extra die (called "boosting"). So, he rolls 3d6 and adds his strngth, plus the power of the weapon used (if any). He also adds the extra damage from the spell cast on himself earlier. He may then hit with any other melee attacks he has, or spend more focus for extra attacks.

    And the game continues...

    Basically, if you want to really learn how the game goes, the best way is to watch or play with people who are experienced. If you want to shoot somebody, you'd better do it before you charge one of your other models into close combat or you might hit your own guy.

    If you want some more detailed explanations, pm me and we can discuss on email.

    Oh, and on the card covers: make sure they're the completely clear ones so you can see the backs of the cards.
    My boyfriend got me into this...

    I just love my new Tyranid Codex. Hurray for invulnerable saves!

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    Chaplain Brother xavier's Avatar
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    Re: Warmachine... What is it?

    Thanks a lot, I think I've got the gist of it. Thanks again.

  16. #16

    Re: Warmachine... What is it?

    Yea, Menoth is not *easy* to figure out for a beginner. The Menoth boxed set also contains a rather useless warjack (repenter).

    Kahdor is slow but *powerful*. Their box set contains the most feared warcaster in the game (scorscha), the most feared non-epic warjack in the game (Destroyer) and the Juggernaut is pure beastly goodness. IMO the Kahdor box is by *far* the best starting box.

  17. #17
    Chaplain Brother xavier's Avatar
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    Re: Warmachine... What is it?

    I know that Khador is powerful but I seen the stat cards and Menoth has a reasonable defence which is maybe higher than Khador, even if their armour is less (slightly), and the Menoth warcaster has about two or three more damage points. Also Khador only has three models while Menoth has four for around the same price (even if its got no special abilities) and that means that, since each warjack can only make two close combat attacks, they have more unmodified attacks in cc and the Menoth warjacks have larger damage tables than the Cryx and Cygnar and mybe combined have more than the combined Khador damage tables.
    So even if each model in the Khador army is more powerful individually than others, combined Menoth can be more powerful.

  18. #18

    Re: Warmachine... What is it?

    Khador isn't slow. The warjacks are only 1inch less in movement and compared to Menoth's heavy it's the same movement. really only Cryx has a decent movement advantage.


    I know that Khador is powerful but I seen the stat cards and Menoth has a reasonable defence which is maybe higher than Khador, even if their armour is less (slightly), and the Menoth warcaster has about two or three more damage points. Also Khador only has three models while Menoth has four for around the same price (even if its got no special abilities) and that means that, since each warjack can only make two close combat attacks, they have more unmodified attacks in cc and the Menoth warjacks have larger damage tables than the Cryx and Cygnar and mybe combined have more than the combined Khador damage tables.
    So even if each model in the Khador army is more powerful individually than others, combined Menoth can be more powerful.

    Couple problems with your thinking.

    Menoth light warjacks have a def of 12, which for Khador Jacks is still an average die roll, The menoth Heavy is a khador jack, only difference is the less armor rating and less damage grid (cheaper point-wise though)

    Cryx Jacks have the advantage of being really hard to hit compared to the other 3 factions Def of 13/15 Yes they have a smaller damage grid (cryx heavy has same damage grid as a Menoth Light) But they make up for it with the extra attacks at a higher P&S

    Cygnar is basically the twin of Menoth. I think they have it better at the box set level, mainly for the increase in movement and defense and MAT/RAT.


    The big problem the box sets have compared to a Khador box set is the Khador ARM/ Damage grid. ARM 20 means that every jacks out there is taking atleast 2 points away from their damage( best P&S is 18), Take that into considereation with a light warjack and it ends up being -8/7 to the damage roll now you are needing to boost a roll to do minimal damage, average being only 3-4 points. Where as a Khador jack is either doing straight damage or higher averaging 7-9 points.

    Also warjacks can make upto 5 attacks per turn in the case of the Cryx Slayer Helljack it can make 6. (roll normal attacks then with 3 focus gain 3 more attacks).
    So that Juggernaut is doing 5 attacks 4 of which are at P&S 19, against a Menoth Heavy that ends up equating to 21 points enough to scrap it.

  19. #19

    Re: Warmachine... What is it?

    I seriously doubt wether all five of those attacks would hit without boosting the attack roll or buffs of some kind. Besides, in this circumstance boosting damage would be better than an extra attack since you're only getting the negative modifier due to armour once, and you canchoose to boost after you've successfully attacked .

    BTW, not boxed set, but termy can get a slayer up to six attacks, basic. Or a death jack with 6 attacks, basic. That's before using focus for extra attacks or boosts .
    [/color]
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  20. #20
    Chaplain Brother xavier's Avatar
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    Re: Warmachine... What is it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom - Heretic

    BTW, not boxed set, but termy can get a slayer up to six attacks, basic. Or a death jack with 6 attacks, basic. That's before using focus for extra attacks or boosts .
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