Tips vs Space marines.

[Spirit]

Ok, never played space marines at gothic, know their rules and from what i can see they are rather like glass cannons, best cruiser only has 6 hit points so crippling should be easy(ish)

Whats the best way to hande them?

I will be imperial and it's a one off game so we both know we are fighting each other and he is likely to tailor his list (if that's even possible in gothic)

[RCgothic]

Fighters and torpedos to shoot down thunderhawks.

They have low shields, so Nova Cannons will force them to Brace for Impact or be crippled, lances are decent as well.
Avoid bombardment cannons, try and stay at 16-30cm.

[Maarten]

The most obvious tactic/list-tailoring is to go lance heavy. The SMs have weak shields and heavy armor. Lances dislike strong shields and ignore armor. That 6+ armor will suddenly become a liability. Gothic cruisers are your friend.

[Volandum]

Yeah, Gothics are highly threatening. Emperors are still a good bet, as SMs rely heavily on escorts for firepower. NCs are good. Don't take escorts - they're easy VPs for the enemy. If you want to really heavily tailor here's a list:

Retribution
2 Mars
3 Gothics
Fleet-Admiral + 2RR.

This is a very mean 1.5K list.

[RCgothic]

Though of course you'll need to be careful not to be outmanoeuvred using such a list, but attack craft help to cover for that weakness.

[Spirit]

Ok good it was as simple as i thought "go lance heavy, beat them into oblivion"

What should i watch out for most? The bombardment cannons do seem a bit good.

Should i try to focus on the battle barge first or the lighter cruisers?

Should the nova cannons be deployed right on the back line of the board for maximum output?

I asked this in the other thread, but when do you brace for impact vs a nova cannon, before or after you scatter?

[ehlijen]

Bombardment cannons seem amazing until you realise that you can either:
-shoot them before the WBs and thus wasting their crit potential against shields or
-shoot them after the WBs and thus get less shots because you're now firing through blastmarkers

It will be rare for a SC to get more than one BC shot into an unshielded target. The only way for that to happens is to houserule in the old blastmarker rules (which I think make a lot more sense) and surround the target.
And the barge you want to stay away from for many other reasons already.

Focus points of fire should depend on the mission: if it's VP go for the easier targets; if it's getting through them to some objective, go what's threatening you the most. That said, if you can reasonably do so, putting a blastmarker (ie bringing down one shield) onto as many enemy ships as possible is never bad (speed reduction, ld penalty, chance to take out CAP...).

The nova cannons should not be left too far behind the main fleet if you fear being outmanouvered (and you should vs SM) or you will see them needing to fight for their lives unsupported quickly. They should be able to handle one strike cruiser without trouble, but throw in some escorts and it doesn't look so good anymore.
Basically, deploy so that when the marines make the likely dash to silence the novas you can close the trap you've hopefully set up.

The decision to brace must occur before any dice for the attack are rolled and that includeds scatter. Note that in the case of the nova cannon that means any ship that the scatter could potentially reach is allowed to attempt to brace, not just the one you target.

[Volandum]

You no longer take out CAP by shooting, by the way, unless you shoot directly for the CAP fighters.

[RCgothic]

Keep the dominators back at the rear of your fleet but not left behind. Target any battle barges with nova cannons. They're more likely to brace because they're bigger targets. that will remove a source of torpedoes and thunderhawks. The weapons batteries will be good against any escorts trying to get around you.

[Volandum]

Um, I think you'll do better targeting SCs with Nova cannon, but if your opponent will brace a Battle Barge (which to be fair I would) it's worthwhile shooting it to make it brace. Remember to target unbraced ships each time with the NC.

[RCgothic]

He will, particularly if he suspects that he'll be taking fire from more than one nova cannon. If you've already damaged its sheilds with the long ranges batteries on an emperor, then he's got a tough choice to make.

[Spirit]

Well i have FP20 swords which should be helping them, even with firing through blast markers the 2 dominators + them + dorsal 16 from the emperor should make a mess of something!

[RCgothic]

The dominators probably won't have the opportunity to fire WBs while closing, and the swords probably lack the range (don't send them off in front of the fleet, they're glass hammers that should be protecting your rear against outflanking escorts and strike cruisers), so it's up to the emperor to knock down a few shields so the nova cannons will make a mess.

[horizon]

Much has been said, and if you follow the good advice it'll be easy.

You could even make an IN mirror fleet.
Emperor BB with assault boats
supported by Dauntless and Swords.

and win. The Dauntless is great strike cruiser killer.

But on the other hand I hate tailoring. I prefer not knowing what fleet I will face. Last battle (see batrep on here) I took Craftworld Eldar knowing I could expect Nids, Orks, Imperial Navy, Corsair Eldar and Chaos.
And the funny thing is, even if I knew I would played the same fleet.

My opponent either didn't knew what I would take.

Being in the dark about your opponent makes for better fleet lists.

[Volandum]

I concur with BH about being in the dark being preferable.

[Spirit]

Well i dont intend to switch my list about too much, models are my main limiter at the moment anyway so i can only have 2 dauntless (which i do) i was really more interested in the tactics side of it. I think to a new player, the space marines look really threatening with their high armour/speed and boarding rules, but when you start to pick them apart i can see their weaknesses.

Going to go for the emperor, with 2 dominatiors, 2 gothics and a lunar, with dauntless/swords/cobras for whatever the points left are. Then in 2k a mars and another cruiser, possibly a dictator (i do like bombers )