Help With Starting IN Fleet (1k pts)

[kitwulfen]

I put together the following list after a while of thought and browsing of forums. Not supposed to be geared against anything in particular, just a sort of balanced list.

Lunar
Lunar
Gothic
Dominator
3x Swords
3x Swords
LD8 Admiral

990 Points.

No AC's, I know. I'd like to expand it to 1500 at some point, but right now I've got two blister packs of swords and two boxes of cruisers (for a total of 6 swords and 4 cruisers). I've already assembled a Lunar and a Gothic.

A few different options I'd been thinking of to get some AC's:

Drop a Lunar and 3 Swords for a Mars.
Drop a Lunar and a Sword for a Dictator.
Just wait to get AC's till I expand to 1500 and get an Emperor.

Thoughts?

[Volandum]

Ld8 Fleet-Admiral + RR is generally preferable to the Ld fleet commander. That'll give you 25 spare points, letting you switch the Dominator for a Dictator.

[kitwulfen]

Ld8 Fleet-Admiral + RR is generally preferable to the Ld fleet commander. That'll give you 25 spare points, letting you switch the Dominator for a Dictator.

My apologies for any confusion. I am only using a LD8 Fleet Admiral with his basic reroll. I would have to drop points in order to buy him a reroll.

[RCgothic]

Ok, in general a gothic and a Dominator are better than 2 Lunars.

That's because the dominator can fire, then the gothic can fire, both without penalty.
If you have 2 lunars, when the second one fires it's targetting its weapons through blast markers caused by the first.

Secondly, you should probably have a dictator or mars providing attack craft defence.

Try this list:
Ld8 Admiral with additional re-roll.
Mars
Dominator
Gothic
Gothic
3x Swords
1000pts.

It has a decent amount of lances, some attack craft, 2 nova cannons and some swords to watch your back.

[kitwulfen]

Ok, in general a gothic and a Dominator are better than 2 Lunars.

That's because the dominator can fire, then the gothic can fire, both without penalty.
If you have 2 lunars, when the second one fires it's targetting its weapons through blast markers caused by the first.

Secondly, you should probably have a dictator or mars providing attack craft defence.

Try this list:
Ld8 Admiral with additional re-roll.
Mars
Dominator
Gothic
Gothic
3x Swords
1000pts.

It has a decent amount of lances, some attack craft, 2 nova cannons and some swords to watch your back.

I had planned to squadron the Lunars (despite how many people on here seem to despise squadroning cruisers). And, as I said, I already have 1 Lunar and 1 Gothic assembled and waiting for paint.

[bryantroy2003]

Its not a bad thing to squadron cruisers. Its just rife with apparent side effects. Such as rolling for the whole squadron for S/O's. If I want to L/O With one and know im out of range with the other that needs to R/O they both cant do what they want to. This makes them less flexible in the S/O department then most would wish. It also means that any carry over from one dead cruiser will impact your second cruiser immediatly if it is within range of the firing ship.

The plus side is that they fire simeltanously and thus get around the BM penalty for WB's. And if you want you could combine their torp salvo's while in b2b.

[Volandum]

The most notable SO side effect is of course Brace for Impact.

[RCgothic]

Yup, if at all possibly you never want to be bracing an entire squadron. I find squadroning works best with battlecruisers, whose longer range allows them to snipe from behind other vessels.

Ok, if you have a lunar already assembled, the above list still works (replace a gothic with the lunar), just remember that if your dominator and lunar/Mars are firing at the same target, make sure to fire the Lunar/Mars last, because they will be less affected by blast markers than the dominator will.

EDIT: Thanks Volandum. Fixed.

[Volandum]

RCgothic, surely you mean to fire the Dom first.

[changer of fate]

I use the lunar and a gothic in one squadron or at least together.

I find that combo extremely effective. cause the STR 6 weapon battery is good enough to take down a cruiser's shield and then 6 lances is just mean.......

[Volandum]

There is precious little point in squadroning a Gothic.

[horizon]

Because it is so easy to use as you don't care about targetting aspect. For a Dominator and Lunar this is all important. Thus a Gothic in squadron is only a hindrance.

[kitwulfen]

Is there any reason that I would use the fleet lists from Armageddon over the one from the main rulebook? Or is there nothing in there worth giving up Dominators for?

[Volandum]

You get Strike Cruisers to use as your light cruisers, Gladius escorts (which are fast), Falchions, lots of Battlecruisers, and Battle Barges (though I prefer Emperors, Battle Barges are faster and better armed than Retributions.)

The Gothic list, which I prefer, has Dominators and Dauntlesses.

Remember that Reserves rules will help forgive a number of problems.

[Vaaish]

To drop in on this one... I think the original list is pretty decent, but why not just make one of the lunars a Mars instead. That will give you ordnance, another NC, and can be made with the parts you have. Then you have a dom/gothic combo, a mars, and a lunar supported by 6 swords which shouldn't be too bad. It's around 1080 with the admiral, but in general I think it would give you a better core fleet for expansion than taking a dictator.

Not withstanding the lack of ordnance for defense, I don't think the original fleet is a bad layout with expansion in mind. I think you could even pull off adding in a couple of exorcists around 1500 to boost up you AC and have a couple of points to spare for some other odds and ends.

[kitwulfen]

You get Strike Cruisers to use as your light cruisers, Gladius escorts (which are fast), Falchions, lots of Battlecruisers, and Battle Barges (though I prefer Emperors, Battle Barges are faster and better armed than Retributions.)

The Gothic list, which I prefer, has Dominators and Dauntlesses.

Remember that Reserves rules will help forgive a number of problems.

What's the consensus on Armageddon-class BCs? I kind of like them, but I think they might be slightly over-costed.

[Volandum]

They are rather overcosted, yes.

[kitwulfen]

So, expanding to 1500 points, I'd want to add a battleship. I understand that the Emperor is generally preferred over the Retribution. Would adding an Emperor+Assault Boats, 3 Swords, and 1 RR to my Admiral be a good plan? Works out to 500 points, if I'm doing the math right.

[Volandum]

Yes, this would be good.

[ehlijen]

Don't forget that the Armageddon list also gets none of the grand cruisers (and unless I'm remembering things wrong that means no grand cruisers as reserves either? Or do they count as 'cruisers' for reserves?). You also need to use reserves to get cobras and swords unless you want to pay extra for their space marine versions. And you don't get Overlords, not that anyone ever seems to miss them.

That and no dominator/dauntless/retribution outside reserves. If you don't want grand cruisers or retributions (BBs are nigh impossible to include as reserves) it's still the best fleet list for anything but dominator spam or the Emperor and 3 dauntless quartet.