Building a better Warhammer

[thomas2]

And another one.

[Commissar von Toussaint]

Cool! Don't forget to p.m. me if you want to be listed in the credits. I'm hoping to publish Conqueror on Amazon.com next month and will roll out a new site to support it.

[Archdaimon]

Hey. Been away for like... 2 years is it?

Been revisiting the rules and look forward to the finished version on Amazon. I have continued to use the 1.0 rules though with my own changes, but apart from that, did anything major change since conqueror 1.0?

[thomas2]

And another list. Probably the penultimate one, after that I'll probably do some revisions changing points costs a bit, adding a few units, clearing any typos and maybe adding special characters. Also renaming feudal states to feudal kingdoms, that was a stupid name (not that any of mine are any better, just there was an obvious improvement).

[thomas2]

Sorry for the double post, but here's the next (and probably last) list. Might be uploading later versions of the other lists some time in the future, though I've decided not to go with special characters- for now anyway- so they probably won't be much Conqueror related changes.



EDIT: Updated my first seven lists, some minor changes but also a few extra characters and units.

[Commissar von Toussaint]

Thanks for the lists. My artist has overrun the initial deadline, but by the end of the month Conqueror should be available at Amazon and I'll have a site to support player-generated lists. Maybe we can convince Warseer management to give us our own forum?

[thomas2]

I didn't want to put the second version of the merchant states list in the same post as the first one, so here it is.

[wanderingblade]

Well I appear to be a little late to the party - or possibly right on time considering the amazon release - but will be taking an active interest in this.

[Commissar von Toussaint]

I suppose an update is in order.

The planned Amazon release was delayed due to my artist utterly failing to deliver the product. The deadline moved from April to June and finally by July we agreed that it wasn't going to happen.

At that point, instead of finding a new artist, I got sidetracked with a lot of work-related stuff. This fall has been as busy as any I've known.

Happily, that's done and so now I can turn back to gaming.

[Commissar von Toussaint]

Hard to believe it, but Conqueror is now seven years old!

Some may ask: Why isn't it published yet?

Fair question.

The answer is that those have been insanely busy years. I changed jobs, changed houses and advanced from a junior NCO to a senior one. Hobbies of necessity took a back seat. I think I've had maybe six months worth of work on this project in all that time.

Of course, without my artist melting down and then a series of high-priority work assignments, I'd still have managed to get this puppy published in August. Oh well. Here's hoping that 2013 is The Year for Conqueror.

[Commissar von Toussaint]

Conqueror is now an e-book! Go over to Amazon and grab a copy for your tablet or mobile device!

Thanks to everyone who commented and especially those who put up their own lists. Maybe now that its an *actual game* we can move out of the game design ghetto and into our own forum.

[thomas2]

Thanks to everyone who commented and especially those who put up their own lists. Maybe now that its an *actual game* we can move out of the game design ghetto and into our own forum.

Doesn't really seem enough discussion here to warrant that, though perhaps it will pick up. I could help out with that, I did quite a bit of work on my lists (including two new ones) since my last post but I ended up doing other things before really finalising them. Now might be a good time to do that, though I am a little busy this week. Shouldn't be too busy after that and I'll see if I feel like dealing with the lists in what free time I'll have.

[Commissar von Toussaint]

Yeah, but it's only pixels. After all, an empty forum is merely aesthetically unpleasing. It shouldn't cost any more than a full one and is far easier to moderate.

[Wintermute]

I've moved this thread to Science Fiction and Fantasy Games General

Wintermute

[precinctomega]

Now Wintermute has move it here: I've never heard of this game. To save me the trial of 30 pages of discussion and updates, give those of us who are new to Conqueror and idea of what you're doing here. Is this a battle game in the same scale as WFB or KOW, or a skirmish game more like SoBH, or somewhere in between?

R.

[Commissar von Toussaint]

First off: Public thanks to Wintermute!

As for the topic at hand: Conqueror is a fantasy battle game that is at the same scale as WHFB. It was moved from the game design grotto where it was developed and now that it is a finished, published design, this is a new space for folks to play and discuss it.

It is of course far superior to WHFB in every respect.

[Kalandros]

TLR this whole thread because its 7:15 am and I have something to add:

I think the best balance could be achieved by hand-picking the way things work in all GW Main systems:
Pick what works from fantasy, what works from 40k and what works from War of the Ring and Lord of the Rings SBG and merge them all to make it work in Fantasy system.
There are things from 40k that would work better in Fantasy, etc

I might get back to this thread after I come back from work.

[Commissar von Toussaint]

Why limit yourself to Games Workshop? There are plenty of mechanics out there! That is exactly the approach I took here.

For those just joining us, this thread started as a discussion of how to build a better Warhammer and is now about the result of that discussion - Conqueror: Fields of Victory.

I asked to have the thread moved as it had a lot of interesting discussion and army lists that people interested in the finished product could use. At the same time, it demonstrates the progression of the project from concept to completion.

So not only can people talk about the game, they can see where it came from.

[Verm1s]

Now Wintermute has move it here: I've never heard of this game.

Ditto. (Don't often venture up to the WH rules discussion boards dontcherknow - it's depressing on a few different levels) I committed to read - or at least skim - the whole thirty pages, but I don't think it was necessary. I was sold after reading the first two or three, particularly with the elves vs. goblins comparison. I like how you decided to deal with the rules.

Couple of questions:

I'm more than willing to spend a couple of bucks to download a copy of Conqueror - bargain! - but I'm unfamiliar with Amazon's KINDLEKINDLEKINDLE policy. Is that the only format available? Don't get me wrong, I've few problems with downloading a copy of 'Kindle for PC' or something (if it works on this museum piece) but I'd have less problems with a PDF.
Is it a print-friendly format? If so, any objections to having my (future) copy professionally printed and bound? Still fond of the dead tree-pulp format. Better still than PDF.

I've noticed a few mentions of "This sounds a lot like X" in the last 30 pages. Do you mind one more? From what I've read, I see a few similarities to Mantic's Kings of War, though differences too. Have you seen KoW - one of the downloads or the published rules? Can I ask what the broad-strokes differences are?

I think the quickest way for me to get a game is to persuade my WAB-fan gaming club to dust off their Dark Age armies. (we had a mini-tourney last year) I'm willing to crack open the WAB Shieldwall book once I get a copy of Conqueror, and have a crack at translating it, but there are a couple of stumbling blocks. The main one is that I'm not well-gifted for interpreting certain stats and rules. I'm not sure how to address rules like mixed thegn+ceorl saxon units, or berserkers popping out of units. Though did I see a mention of mixed units for the skaven list, a few pages back? Could I raid the goblin list for berserker rules, too?
Two: I'm interested in the period but not well-read on it. Shieldwall is my main source, and any errors there are likely to end up in any translation I make. Though I guess it can't be too difficult to ask for opinions and criticism. No shortage of those...

Lastly, have you shown the rules or the Amazon announcement around anywhere online, other than Warseer? I saw a mention of TMP way back in the first few pages, but I can't find anything there about it.

[Commissar von Toussaint]

Ditto. (Don't often venture up to the WH rules discussion boards dontcherknow - it's depressing on a few different levels)

That is why I asked to move it here. I must have seen a dozen different variations on "here's how I'll fix 40k" and I know I missed a few.

Couple of questions:

I'm more than willing to spend a couple of bucks to download a copy of Conqueror - bargain! - but I'm unfamiliar with Amazon's KINDLEKINDLEKINDLE policy. Is that the only format available? Don't get me wrong, I've few problems with downloading a copy of 'Kindle for PC' or something (if it works on this museum piece) but I'd have less problems with a PDF.
Is it a print-friendly format? If so, any objections to having my (future) copy professionally printed and bound? Still fond of the dead tree-pulp format. Better still than PDF.

There are a couple of ways to download it and some are more print-friendly than others. I chose the Kindle because it was the easiest way to go. No print costs, no hassles with shipping, you just load it and you're done. As the author, I could look at it in an emulator that showed how it would display in different devices and the larger-format ones look best. But you could carry it on your phone, which is kind of neat.

I've noticed a few mentions of "This sounds a lot like X" in the last 30 pages. Do you mind one more? From what I've read, I see a few similarities to Mantic's Kings of War, though differences too. Have you seen KoW - one of the downloads or the published rules? Can I ask what the broad-strokes differences are?

All wargames are derivative. I used to wonder about how I might come up with something truly new and different and the problem with innovation (particularly in board/miniatures games) is that if you go too far our there, no one will follow. In addition, you can waste so much energy on the system that you have nothing left to actually flesh it out.

I think the quickest way for me to get a game is to persuade my WAB-fan gaming club to dust off their Dark Age armies. (we had a mini-tourney last year) I'm willing to crack open the WAB Shieldwall book once I get a copy of Conqueror, and have a crack at translating it, but there are a couple of stumbling blocks. The main one is that I'm not well-gifted for interpreting certain stats and rules. I'm not sure how to address rules like mixed thegn+ceorl saxon units, or berserkers popping out of units. Though did I see a mention of mixed units for the skaven list, a few pages back? Could I raid the goblin list for berserker rules, too?
Two: I'm interested in the period but not well-read on it. Shieldwall is my main source, and any errors there are likely to end up in any translation I make. Though I guess it can't be too difficult to ask for opinions and criticism. No shortage of those...

The rules are very flexible - far more so than either WHFB or WAB. (I can't comment on Mantic as I'm not familiar with them.)

You've probably found references to it in the thread, but Conqueror is bloodier and places more emphasis on morale. Very different from the character delivery vehicles you get in WHFB and it does not use the same kind of abstractions you see with ranks and standard bearers. Standard bearers are just there for looks and to indicate the unit's front facing (put it in the middle in square formation).

Without knowing Shieldwall specifically, the way I would run Saxons would be to create fyrd units and housecarl units and form them one before the other in close proximity. If you blend the figures, you risk really bogging the combat down as different melee skills and armor saves would make it very clumsy.

I've adding a link in my signature to the blog page for Conqueror and there are downloadable lists there as well.

Lastly, have you shown the rules or the Amazon announcement around anywhere online, other than Warseer? I saw a mention of TMP way back in the first few pages, but I can't find anything there about it.

I mean to sell it more heavily, but mostly my goal was to finish the product and make it available. I've got a lot going on, which is why it took so long to complete. Were I 20 years younger, I would be all over the 'net promoting the heck out of the thing. As it stands, I'll try to get it over to TMP...maybe by March. So very busy...