Ideas C+C needed for my homebrew chapter - The Wolves of Dorn

[pookie]

Right some people may know that im currently building a SM Battle Company, which is a Hybrid of Mark's 5 and 6 armour, ive yet to finalise a lot o fthings, such as chapter colours and background, and some comments/critasism is required.

Although a Codex Chapter the Wolves of Dorn are currently on a Penitant Crusade after withdrawing there heavily mauled forces on the Hive world Leodis, and allowing it to fall into the hands of Renegade Marines, who subsequently Slaughtered over a 20 billon humans. they have a small fleet of 1 BB 2 SC, there forge ship and rest of the fleet have been either destroyed/captured.

The Wolves of Dorn are currently reported to be at a approx 25% operational Strength, with less than 30% of there chapter assests left, they have very few suits of Terminator Armour, there vehicle Armouries are depleted and they now favour quick raids to achieve there aims.

I will be limiting myself to a standard Battle Company to choose from when playing games, although due to the scarsity of Terminator Armour ( within the Wolves of Dorn) i feel that the vets would probably be Sternguard rather than Vangaurd, as the Chapter Master tries to only fight the battles that will result in the fewest casualtys to his Chapter ( i see Stern as being a defensive type sqd, rather than offensive) the chapter also has very few Dreads as most were left on Leodis when the Chapter withdrew ( along with the Vehicles).also they favour Dev sqds due to the lack of armour, does this seem resonable?

Because of this wanting disregard to the Holy Order of Ad Mechs machines, they now have a very strained relationship with the Ad Mech, who are currently refusing to re arm the Chapter. - Is this plausable?

C+C is welcome before i move forward with my ideas and maybe post a short piece on the chapter's history etc.

**edit**

After withdrawing there forces from Leodis the Wolves of Dorn were left Leaderless and heavily Mauled, there first task was to appoint a new Chapter Master, normal procedure to appoint a new CM could not happen, as normal process would be a ballot by the Company Captains, as all of these were lost either during the Attack on Leodis or the Withdrawl, it was decided that the marines left would ballot, it was almost unanimous that Veteran Brother (name to be decided) would be appointed new CM.

His first order was that he would now be known as the Knights Champion and not Chapter Master, and that the Force would immediatly commence rebuilding the chapter, starting with finding and repairing all the Precious equipment lost to the Renegades on Leodis. (insert Knights Champion name ) had contacted the Ad mech to request Re supply, only to be told that this was not a option, the Ad Mech would not tolerate the failures of the Wolves of Dorn in protecting there Sacred Tech and would have to make do with what Equipment they had left, only when they could demonstrate via a Penitant Crusade that they were prepared to protect there equipment would the Ad Mech commence re supply.

(insert name) took the deicision that every marine would spend a week re newing there faith in Dorn and the Emperor before the Crusade commenced.

**2nd edit**

After thinking long and hard, ive decided on final numbers of operation Marines, these are going to be from the 1st, 5th, 7th, 9th and 10th Companys, the main force built around the 5th Battle Company.

My aim will be to paint the entire force up...

See my Project log: http://www.warseer.com/forums/showth...27#post3609527

bit of the background:

When The Wolves of Dorn were contacted by the Ad mech to fullfil ancient oathes to protect the planet of Leodis, the entire chapter was mobilised, intelligance reported that the planet had been subverted by Cultists loyal to the dark Gods. Renegade Marines from half a dozen warbands had decended on the planet and started slaughtering the Citizens.

the CM of the wolves of Dorn immediatly assesmbled much of the Capter, with only the 5th Battle Company and elements from the 1st and reserve companys not ready ( they are currently enroute from adiffrent warzone), the Wolves of Dorn made there plans to attack and recaptur Leodis.

from the moment the Wolves of Dorn made landfall, it was immediatly apparent that it was a trap.....

[keatsmeister]

Sounds interesting. How has the Chapter name come about? I could guess, but I could be very wrong

Perhaps, as their relationship is strained with the Ad Mech, they may engage in strategic raids on the forces responsible for their losses, and regain some of their precious Tactical Dreadnought Armour. The may be on a penitent crusade, but this may be a mission they seek in order for their own absolution.

[pookie]

Sounds interesting. How has the Chapter name come about? I could guess, but I could be very wrong .

No do guess its more fun, tho its got nothing to do with my BT force....

Perhaps, as their relationship is strained with the Ad Mech, they may engage in strategic raids on the forces responsible for their losses, and regain some of their precious Tactical Dreadnought Armour. The may be on a penitent crusade, but this may be a mission they seek in order for their own absolution.

hmmm, maybe the penitant crusade is self appointed to actually recover the lost Equipment...hmmmm... im liking that idea, thanks.

[JCOLL]

As they don't have their full assests in equipment and everything, it would be cool to model Termies as a hodge-podge of new and old armour. Best way to represent this would be when painting, but maybe some modeling too. The fluff sounds good, except I find it unlikely that they'd leave their dreads and such for a full retreat. Dreads are usually former leaders and soldiers of renown. I just don't see them being left behind. I always like the idea of using lots of Devestator squads. Sounds good so far.

[kapturowski]

I must say I really like the name. Makes me conjure up all sorts of images of Space Marines in my mind.

It would be interesting to see what kind of paint scheme you settle for, it can sometimes start your imagination down another, previously unthought of, road.

Perhaps they would use more Scouts due to their lack of access to equipment to manufacture and maintain Power Armour?

[Verkehr]

Also, if they are scavenging back their equipment from the Renegades, then presumably some of the stuff they are forced into battle with is a tad Chaos-y, what with the Techpriests refusing to re-sanctify the equipment and all. Could be some conversion opportunities there?

[Petay1985]

i like the concept overall, i think your under strength army is great, i love the feel/theme you have given the army.

i am especially loving the concept of the ad mech refusing to to rearm the chapter, but i do feel that these needs more weight behind the justification, however i do not have a suggestion at present for fleshing this out

i think that the incorporation of chaos parts could, if not done very well, lead your army to look very 13th Company, which i do not think is the look that suits your fluff quite right.
perhapse using chaos bikes, with regular marines on could be cool?

[Cpt_Baughan]

All sounds like a really character filled force

I would like to see a mention in their back story to what renegades they withdrew from and then see it perhaps in the paint scheme, such as a single black shoulder pad to serve as a reminder to their past only to be removed once they have achieved revenge against those renegades – well something cooler than that, that was just of the top of my head but you get my points, heroes are always cooler with a nemesis.

[Gray Hunter]

One thing that bugged me about your background. You say that the Chapter Master is trying to preserve what is left of his force (which is wise), but then you say that to achieve this he tends to fight defensive engagements. That doesn't make any sense to me. Even under normal circumstances, most Space Marines prefer to be on the offensive. Choose a target, hit it hard, get out before the enemy even knows what has happened. Space Marines can and will fight defensive engagements, but only when they absolutely have to. The reason for this is that by fighting on the defensive, they are surrendering the initiative to the enemy. This is the very antithesis of how Space Marines want to fight!

Thus, I would humbly suggest that your Chapter Master adopts a more aggressive attitude, only picking fights he knows he can win quickly and exit from before the enemy can respond and force him into a defensive war of attrition.

Maybe your new Chapter motto can be "Hit it and quit it!"

[keatsmeister]

One thing that bugged me about your background. You say that the Chapter Master is trying to preserve what is left of his force (which is wise), but then you say that to achieve this he tends to fight defensive engagements. That doesn't make any sense to me. Even under normal circumstances, most Space Marines prefer to be on the offensive. Choose a target, hit it hard, get out before the enemy even knows what has happened. Space Marines can and will fight defensive engagements, but only when they absolutely have to. The reason for this is that by fighting on the defensive, they are surrendering the initiative to the enemy. This is the very antithesis of how Space Marines want to fight!

Thus, I would humbly suggest that your Chapter Master adopts a more aggressive attitude, only picking fights he knows he can win quickly and exit from before the enemy can respond and force him into a defensive war of attrition.

Maybe your new Chapter motto can be "Hit it and quit it!"

The clue was in your own wording

most Space Marines

From the background given, it may well be the Chapter's current leadership had tended to be overly-agressive, leading to the disastrous losses in the first place. It'd be perfectly reasonable to implement measures to prevent a repetition of such foolhardy errors.

[Petay1985]

The clue was in your own wording





From the background given, it may well be the Chapter's current leadership had tended to be overly-agressive, leading to the disastrous losses in the first place. It'd be perfectly reasonable to implement measures to prevent a repetition of such foolhardy errors.

in complete agreement i like the idea of them being defensive, or cautious with their battle tactics if you will.
i think an aggresive force would fail to convey the feel for the army that is setout in the first post.

[pookie]

As they don't have their full assests in equipment and everything, it would be cool to model Termies as a hodge-podge of new and old armour. Best way to represent this would be when painting, but maybe some modeling too. The fluff sounds good, except I find it unlikely that they'd leave their dreads and such for a full retreat. Dreads are usually former leaders and soldiers of renown. I just don't see them being left behind. I always like the idea of using lots of Devestator squads. Sounds good so far.

I feel that the loss of the Dreads etc is part of why the Ad Mech will not re arm the Chapter, but this is going to be addressed in the background story so its not quite as Black/White as its seems.

I must say I really like the name. Makes me conjure up all sorts of images of Space Marines in my mind.

It would be interesting to see what kind of paint scheme you settle for, it can sometimes start your imagination down another, previously unthought of, road.

Perhaps they would use more Scouts due to their lack of access to equipment to manufacture and maintain Power Armour?

The Scheme is currently changing daily, as im yet to settle on something i really want to sit down and paint 100 times plus. but will be soon sorted, and images will be shown to possible colour schemes.

as for the Power Armour?scouts - im actually building it using older Marks, so the problem with replacing newer armour is addressed there, the scouts issue will also be addressed in the background fluff, but i will be painting around 30. as fro

Also, if they are scavenging back their equipment from the Renegades, then presumably some of the stuff they are forced into battle with is a tad Chaos-y, what with the Techpriests refusing to re-sanctify the equipment and all. Could be some conversion opportunities there?

see my bit above about older Marks of Armour above

i like the concept overall, i think your under strength army is great, i love the feel/theme you have given the army.

i am especially loving the concept of the ad mech refusing to to rearm the chapter, but i do feel that these needs more weight behind the justification, however i do not have a suggestion at present for fleshing this out

i think that the incorporation of chaos parts could, if not done very well, lead your army to look very 13th Company, which i do not think is the look that suits your fluff quite right.
perhapse using chaos bikes, with regular marines on could be cool?

again see above.

All sounds like a really character filled force

I would like to see a mention in their back story to what renegades they withdrew from and then see it perhaps in the paint scheme, such as a single black shoulder pad to serve as a reminder to their past only to be removed once they have achieved revenge against those renegades – well something cooler than that, that was just of the top of my head but you get my points, heroes are always cooler with a nemesis.

this will get revealed in the back story once i start to formulate it a bit more, but they are deff going to have a nemasis, its just not who most people may expect...

One thing that bugged me about your background. You say that the Chapter Master is trying to preserve what is left of his force (which is wise), but then you say that to achieve this he tends to fight defensive engagements. That doesn't make any sense to me. Even under normal circumstances, most Space Marines prefer to be on the offensive. Choose a target, hit it hard, get out before the enemy even knows what has happened. Space Marines can and will fight defensive engagements, but only when they absolutely have to. The reason for this is that by fighting on the defensive, they are surrendering the initiative to the enemy. This is the very antithesis of how Space Marines want to fight!

Thus, I would humbly suggest that your Chapter Master adopts a more aggressive attitude, only picking fights he knows he can win quickly and exit from before the enemy can respond and force him into a defensive war of attrition.

Maybe your new Chapter motto can be "Hit it and quit it!"

Ah, now thats the thing, i want them to be offensive, i just feel Sternguard are a Defensive style Squad, maybe you got mixed up there, they certainly are going to be choosing who and when they fight, but will more than likly do it via Ambush, rather than lightning raids.

The clue was in your own wording





From the background given, it may well be the Chapter's current leadership had tended to be overly-agressive, leading to the disastrous losses in the first place. It'd be perfectly reasonable to implement measures to prevent a repetition of such foolhardy errors.

again going to be addressed in the back story, but that is partly why the chapter isnt going to be overly aggressive as such.

in complete agreement i like the idea of them being defensive, or cautious with their battle tactics if you will.
i think an aggresive force would fail to convey the feel for the army that is setout in the first post.

the best offence is a good defence after all.

**

Ive update the first post with a few more things about the chpater/background. any more C=C will be welcomed.

[NightrawenII]

I feel that the loss of the Dreads etc is part of why the Ad Mech will not re arm the Chapter, but this is going to be addressed in the background story so its not quite as Black/White as its seems.

From the name I suggest, they are from the IF geneseed. So they can be very stubborn, in case of dreadnoughts (they are old farts after all) is this even worse. I think they simply refuse retreat and form the Last Stand regardless on the situation.

Ah, now thats the thing, i want them to be offensive, i just feel Sternguard are a Defensive style Squad, maybe you got mixed up there, they certainly are going to be choosing who and when they fight, but will more than likly do it via Ambush, rather than lightning raids.

Sometimes you need a lightning attack to suprise your oponent.

His first order was that he would now be known as the Knights Champion and not Chapter Master,

Not sure about title, Wolves of Dorn lead by Knights Champion? I know, better names arent available, but this is just weird.

[pookie]

From the name I suggest, they are from the IF geneseed. So they can be very stubborn, in case of dreadnoughts (they are old farts after all) is this even worse. I think they simply refuse retreat and form the Last Stand regardless on the situation.

They are indeed a IF decended Chapter, and its partlythere refusal to give up thats causedthe cahpter to be so mauled.

Sometimes you need a lightning attack to suprise your oponent.

agreed fully, but as will become clear when ive finalised my background, the vangaurd/Assault elements of the chapter were wiped out.

Not sure about title, Wolves of Dorn lead by Knights Champion? I know, better names arent available, but this is just weird.

hmm, true, tbh its kind of anod towards the Emperors champion ala BT, and im thinking that a few other 'knigthly' sounding names is a bit diffrent to sgt, Cpt, CM etc.

** also check out changes to first post please.

i'l be opening a project log with a few naff pics for people to look at ( for now, i will try and keep it updated often).

[Grand Master Raziel]

Haha, I saw C+C, and I initially thought you were trying to build a close combat oriented chapter! I began reading your initial post, and thought "Where's the close combat stuff?" Then I finished reading it and got it.

Anyhow, here's my thoughts: First, fighting "defensive battles" and raiding to recover lost equipment are kind of antithetical priorities. What you might want to say instead is that they try and avoid getting involved in protracted battles, preferring to hit and run, leaving ambushes behind them to slow enemy pursuit. That would let you play two kinds of lists: a "raid" list and an "ambush" list. The ambush list could be considered kind of defensive, because you're letting your opponent come to you and then hitting him when he's not expecting it. Doesn't lend itself very well to the first couple kinds of missions, but would lend itself well to Kill Point missions. Or, you could home-brew some missions, where the opponent gets points for every unit in your deployment zone or units of yours destroyed, and you get points for every unit kept out or destroyed. Anyhow, Scout Bikes would be good in your ambush list, for their booby-trapping ability and all.

Anyhow, I'm thinking that one aspect of your force could be that every infantry unit that isn't either a jump pack unit or bike mounted has to be mechanized in some way (unless they drop pod or teleport). So, Rhinos for all your Tacs, and even for your Devs (maybe a Razorback for your Devs, if the squad is small). I wouldn't necessarily use Chaos vehicles for this (definately wouldn't, actually), but you could use some plasticard to represent crude repairs done in the field as opposed to the chapter armory. Also, Chaos isn't the only force they could scavenge Rhinos from. They could have scavenged Rhinos from the Inquisition, Sisters of Battle, or the Adeptus Arbites. So, you could throw in some Arbites Rhinos with hasty repair jobs and plates welded on the side with your chapter heraldry. Probably Arbite Rhinos would be most available to be scrounged up. You could probably afford yourself one Predator, but make it a dakka Pred with a lot of patchwork repairs - I figure dakka Preds are easier to maintain than lascannon Preds or Vindicators.

I'm very interested to hear about your progress on this. It sounds very characterful, and it could be striking visually.

[sprugly]

This all sound cool, but an idea is nothing without the models, and without a cool colour scheme you'll get bored of painting quickly.
so... lets see those colour scheme ideas you've been hinting at!

sprugly

[LonelyPath]

IIRC there is already a Wolves of Dorn chapter. It was used in a European contest a few years ago to design a new chapter (entering several painted minis as examples). While the chapter did not win, I remember the name or something very similar to it. I think they were dark grey in colour.

[pookie]

Haha, I saw C+C, and I initially thought you were trying to build a close combat oriented chapter! I began reading your initial post, and thought "Where's the close combat stuff?" Then I finished reading it and got it.

Anyhow, here's my thoughts: First, fighting "defensive battles" and raiding to recover lost equipment are kind of antithetical priorities. What you might want to say instead is that they try and avoid getting involved in protracted battles, preferring to hit and run, leaving ambushes behind them to slow enemy pursuit. That would let you play two kinds of lists: a "raid" list and an "ambush" list. The ambush list could be considered kind of defensive, because you're letting your opponent come to you and then hitting him when he's not expecting it. Doesn't lend itself very well to the first couple kinds of missions, but would lend itself well to Kill Point missions. Or, you could home-brew some missions, where the opponent gets points for every unit in your deployment zone or units of yours destroyed, and you get points for every unit kept out or destroyed. Anyhow, Scout Bikes would be good in your ambush list, for their booby-trapping ability and all.

Anyhow, I'm thinking that one aspect of your force could be that every infantry unit that isn't either a jump pack unit or bike mounted has to be mechanized in some way (unless they drop pod or teleport). So, Rhinos for all your Tacs, and even for your Devs (maybe a Razorback for your Devs, if the squad is small). I wouldn't necessarily use Chaos vehicles for this (definately wouldn't, actually), but you could use some plasticard to represent crude repairs done in the field as opposed to the chapter armory. Also, Chaos isn't the only force they could scavenge Rhinos from. They could have scavenged Rhinos from the Inquisition, Sisters of Battle, or the Adeptus Arbites. So, you could throw in some Arbites Rhinos with hasty repair jobs and plates welded on the side with your chapter heraldry. Probably Arbite Rhinos would be most available to be scrounged up. You could probably afford yourself one Predator, but make it a dakka Pred with a lot of patchwork repairs - I figure dakka Preds are easier to maintain than lascannon Preds or Vindicators.

I'm very interested to hear about your progress on this. It sounds very characterful, and it could be striking visually.

thanks, will take your thoughts into consideration, hmmm... got the brain thinking already, thanks.

This all sound cool, but an idea is nothing without the models, and without a cool colour scheme you'll get bored of painting quickly.
so... lets see those colour scheme ideas you've been hinting at!

sprugly

Check out the link to my Log, although i agree will be much better once built/painted. ( of and when i get a decent cam to take pics with!) i should be geting some test models up over next weekend.

IIRC there is already a Wolves of Dorn chapter. It was used in a European contest a few years ago to design a new chapter (entering several painted minis as examples). While the chapter did not win, I remember the name or something very similar to it. I think they were dark grey in colour.

not good! although ive not heard of that chapter before, and was debtaing Dorn Wolves as the Chapters name, just thought it sounded a bit cheesy so went with Wolves of Dorn instead, anyone else heard of this chapter before?

[ToXiK]

is their nemesis the old chapter master who has fallen in to chaos and ordered the retreat and left all the equipment and dreads there for his new acquaintances?

[pookie]

is their nemesis the old chapter master who has fallen in to chaos and ordered the retreat and left all the equipment and dreads there for his new acquaintances?

i did have this thought, but decided not to go this route as it wa a bit obvious.