Putting together the Kor'vattra

[Volandum]

Why are you squadroning lance Heroes with battery Heroes?

[horizon]

Cool fleet. Pretty strong. For more variety you could take the Ion Cannon Merchants, so you need to drop 4 Orca's (-100) and a Messenger, then add 3 Defenders.

But that isn't needed at a 1500-2000 ranged battle, in lower battles it may give you some more options to deploy your fleet.

[Maarten]

Maarten is correct. You may squadron Orcas from different ships only if their hosts are squadroned, though.

Ah, you are right.

On both accounts

I missed the bit where Orcas basicly copied the squadroning behaviour of their parents. In case you want to read the rules, Gorin, they're in the ship list section of the Tau fleet rules.

[Gorin9SQ]

Why are you squadroning lance Heroes with battery Heroes?

For versatility. As an all-comers list, enemies will vary in defensive capabilities. I figured a FP16 battery with a STR4 lance would do wonders in that area.

[Volandum]

Yeah, but why squadron? Now I can scare you more easily with long-range lances or NC. Running free would give you even more tactical flexibility.

Also, I'm not sure you understand versatility. Tell me what you think it is.

[Gorin9SQ]

Versatility - the ability to create, respond, and adapt to a variety of situations.

With all the talk of lots of command checks to reload ordnance, putting Heroes in a squadron allows fewer command checks, especially since their lauch bays are somewhat lacking.

If you're worried about long-range lances, use intervening escorts and force LD tests. That's what escorts do, believe it or not.

[Volandum]

Escorts? Are you sure you'd rather lose 2-3 Orcas than have a Hero go on Brace? And those are your cheapest escorts.

Putting Heroes in a squadron and letting them be forced to BFI allows no command checks.

[Gorin9SQ]

Are you really that afraid of the big nasty lances, or giving up 25-point escorts? Sometimes you just gotta risk getting your nose bloody to be able smash your opponent's face in. There aren't enough lances at 45+ in almost any fleet, to cause the 5 hits necessary to cripple a Hero, unless they're lucky. Buck up, take the hit, and unleash hell on the nearest opponent. What's left of the target, if at 40cm or less, will then take further damage from 12 torpedoes and 4 mantas, ideally. That's how you blow up enemy ships.

[Volandum]

It's 6 hits to cripple a Hero. The SG fleet doesn't skimp on hull points unlike the FW one.

2 Hades, Lock On. 6 expected hits.
2 Acherons. Lock On. 5 expected hits at 60cm, 8 at 45. Shorter range though, and can't cruise in blasting. That, or either heavy cruiser with a Desolator. That's Chaos. The IN will hit hard at range with NCs instead.

Orcas are worth 35pts each; you pay this when you buy Merchants. Seriously, why would you rather take hits on your Orcas? I mean, a Hero takes 10 hits to cripple if it can brace, and that'll lose you 2 lances and FP2, whereas 10 hits to a Braced Orca squadron will kill 3, losing you rather more firepower.

[Gorin9SQ]

You left out 3 torpedoes and a squadron. That sort of tips the scales back in the hero's favor.

Speaking of which, Tau torpedoes can cover 80cm in a single turn! Sure you might lose one or two in the process, but if you can get the enemy to fear them, it can turn those lances (or even Nova cannon!) against the incoming ordnance, instead.

Btw, with what you've been saying about squadroning cruisers together, I'm betting you would take those chaos cruisers, separately. That would be 2 lock-on orders instead of one.

[Volandum]

I did, yes. Any point before the crippling, though (for instance if you only took 6-8 hits) you're not losing firepower on the Hero, whereas you're taking attrition all the while on your escorts. Anyway, throw away Merchants if you want to throw things away. FP6 is pretty insignificant.

You're right, I would. That would be 2 Lock-on orders. Each only gives me one extra hit, though, so one would still be enough to make you be very wary (5 expected hits).

Fire lances at oncoming torpedoes? Only with Shadowhunters, and I'd most likely only take those if I'd had far too much to drink. Keep the launchers down instead. Fighters can stop torpedoes.

[horizon]

Squadroning has more downfalls then pros. Only case I could consider it is when I have a Devastation with Ld9 and one with Ld6.

If you brace for impact you have 2 ships which suffer from it when squadroned, otherwise only 1.

Using intervening escorts is neat-ish but most ld tests will be taken between 7-10, so most likely they will be bypassed. Plus I wouldn't do it. It's the worst use of already fragile escorts.

Yes Tau torps do 80cm but the enemy surely will have fighters around. Remember, 1 fighter can remove a single wave of 1 or 999999 torpedoes. Plus there are turrets. Don't get me wrong, I love Tau torps and they are good when used well.

Nova Cannons shoot 150cm.... zing.... unreliable? Yes. Psychological? Very much.

Only with Shadowhunters, and I'd most likely only take those if I'd had far too much to drink.

hahaha.
Anyway, when nothing else is in range I fire every gun at ordnance.

[bryantroy2003]

Being an IN player I am a fan of squadrons. I regularly get those LD 6/9 variations in my Dom/Gothic/Tyrant/Lunar combo's and need to buck up the LD of the lower one to pass checks. Or my favorite crit result that happens at least once every fracking battle, bridge smashed. Without the squadron that ship becomes useless and cant even disengage reliably. If I get that result on an enemy ship I rarely pay any attention to it with my gunz unless I have no other targets due to the uselessness of it. However my opponents are wising up and squadroning like me to avoid that result.


But in the end it is all about play styles, you have your way. I have mine. We may disagree on certain points, but neither is invalid in their tactics. Just some paths are longer and rockier then others thats all. Unless you are those damn 3 TS 2500pt necron players, then u just suck.

[Renshan]

How do tau torps do 80cm? I thought they did 20-40. Maybe I misunderstood missile rules.

[horizon]

turn 1
my ordnance phase 40cm
his ordnance phase 40cm
=80cm

[Renshan]

Ok must re-read ordnance rules, I thought they only moved in my turn...

[horizon]

Heh, bombers, fighters etc also move in your phase/his phase.

[Renshan]

Apparently, I got the whole phase thing wrong. Thanks for helping out