This ain't no pansy GW armor, son

[chaos0xomega]

college student(major in aero engineering), hoping to get a commission in the USAF(as a pilot... shoulda majored in underwater basket weaving).

I actually can't use solidwork for the life of me. This is UGS NX 5.0 I hate the program(its very unstable), but I know how to use it pretty well. I'm actually going to have to try solidworks eventually, I have it sitting on my harddrive gathering digital dust...

[Mangozac]

I like where this is going.....

It's a great "modernised" IG tank design but I can't help but feel that the tracks are a little undersized. That may simply be due to the angle you're showing - can we get a side profile shot?

As for detailing the flat areas: vents, filters, stowage hatches, hooks, tool mounts, power cables, the list goes on. Just google some real tank pictures to get an idea. Don't fool yourself with that "armoured behemoth" concept - if you want a model to be interesting (wether or not it is realistic) you have to add detailing stuff to the exterior.

[chaos0xomega]

Well, I finally figured out why photobucket was downsizing all my pics



So theres a detail shot of the newly done top vent and the current incarnation of the gunners sights. I tried doing one for the hull gun as well, but I didn't have much luck. Due to the drivers viewport being obscured if I make it too large. I'm going to have to fiddle around with it a good bit before I'm happy.

and here is the requested sideview + a frontview:




For a better sense of scale, the width (or is it the length? its the horizontal dimension in the front view...) of the tread is a bit under 5/8"

[Ghaust Mortium]

I don't know, Looks a little flat and long if you ask me.

P.S. Aero Engineering all the way!!!! :Thumbsup:

[chaos0xomega]

Ghaust, I kinda have the same feeling, but I think once I'm done with tread it'll look a lot less long, and a lot less flat. Remember, I'm going for a big turret here. Not that little itty bitty thing on the Russ (or chimera for that matter).

As for aero engineering, I'm starting to regret not just being a regular mechanical. My school offers a focus on this kind of stuff (though I doubt they'd let me design miniatures for a grade lol). And lets get realistic here... aerodynamics aren't THAT interesting.

[Ghaust Mortium]

I see, Well I will be intrested in the finished product. Any chance that you are going to produce these? If so I'd plan on buying a couple.

I see. I wanted to be an Aeronautical engineer, but lets face it: When you hate math, it's alot more difficult.

[The Orange]

Very impressive looking tank, I might want to get one just for display. Can't tell to well from the pics but it looks like the (very) front of the tank threads are inside/behind the armor plating, shouldn't they stick out ahead a bit so that they can grab onto and thus allow the tank to climb over barriers etc.

[chaos0xomega]

I see, Well I will be intrested in the finished product. Any chance that you are going to produce these? If so I'd plan on buying a couple.

Yep. Like I said in the first post (and throughout the first page, really). If I can get the parts breakdown just the way I want it, and if I did my calculations correctly, I should be able to offer these for 20-30 USD, still make a nice amount of profit, and be far more than competitive with GW/FW.

I want to try to keep the cost low, because I personally understand the value of a dollar pretty well, and I don't see most of GW's product being worth what they ask for it, and I'm not a greedy bastard and a half.

I see. I wanted to be an Aeronautical engineer, but lets face it: When you hate math, it's alot more difficult

And therein lies the problem. I despise math. I hate it. I ain't bad at it (except algebra which I was always in danger of failing in high school (and probably should have...)). I knew that there would be a lot of math in engineering, but I imagined there would be a bit more about design and stuff like that in there... NOPE. Maybe once you have a job in the real world you start doing that kind of stuff, but so far in 2 years of study, its been nothing but math, and the next two years are also mainly math with an occasional side distraction.

Very impressive looking tank, I might want to get one just for display. Can't tell to well from the pics but it looks like the (very) front of the tank threads are inside/behind the armor plating, shouldn't they stick out ahead a bit so that they can grab onto and thus allow the tank to climb over barriers etc.

You're right, they are, and yes they should be. Kinda been bugging me as well, and I've been meaning to fix it, just haven't gotten around to it yet.

[Ghaust Mortium]

I want to try to keep the cost low, because I personally understand the value of a dollar pretty well, and I don't see most of GW's product being worth what they ask for it, and I'm not a greedy bastard and a half.

Amen...Amen I don't think that several pieces of plastic should be 80 bucks. You got a name for it? Like [Insert witty name here] Pattern Leman Russ? Or something more dramatic?

And therein lies the problem. I despise math. I hate it. I ain't bad at it (except algebra which I was always in danger of failing in high school (and probably should have...)). I knew that there would be a lot of math in engineering, but I imagined there would be a bit more about design and stuff like that in there...

That is exactly what I thought!! I got a 70 in Honors Algebra in 8th grade and had to retake it in 9th. I passed with a 92 this time. Smartest kid in the class...But I hated it.

[chaos0xomega]

Amen...Amen I don't think that several pieces of plastic should be 80 bucks. You got a name for it? Like [Insert witty name here] Pattern Leman Russ? Or something more dramatic?

Pz.Kpfw. XXI Rhinoceros - Fourth Reich Main Battle Tank

working title

That is exactly what I thought!! I got a 70 in Honors Algebra in 8th grade and had to retake it in 9th. I passed with a 92 this time. Smartest kid in the class...But I hated it.

Well, if you're interested in the subject, I'd at least try it out, you can always redeclare your major to something else. Keep in mind I am made slightly bitter by the thought that if I have it my way, I will never once use my degree in my life.

[chaos0xomega]

I fixed the front tread. I think it looks good and far more functional than before. With that I think I'm done futzing around with the design for tonight.

[Mangozac]

I reckon it needs some indication of the axle or worky bits in that big empty front area (just above the origin mark there).

[chaos0xomega]

You mean like a round bump in the side armor or something? Yeah, that'll get added in eventually. Fun fact though... there aren't any other wheels under that thing aside from the road wheels... I got too lazy, and I'm still trying to figure out the best way to manufacture those sections (minimize cost and maximize detail).

[Mangozac]

Exactly. Yeah it sounds like you've got it under control.

Have you got any 3D printers lined up yet? I'm personally a little skeptical of standard rapid prototyping for mastering model kits as I've not yet seen any results that I'm happy with (bar GW, but they would be working with equipment that is another order of magnitude in price and resolution). Some of the guys on Advanced Tau Tactica have done some experiments recently and I was very disappointed at the lack of detail.

[chaos0xomega]

Do you have any links to those threads?

I'm looking into using a technology known as polyjet. It produces layers at 16microns(.0006") so it should be able to produce even the finest details, and can produce details as fine as .005", which is pretty much the "resolution" I've been working at.

[Mangozac]

http://www.advancedtautactica.com/vi...st=0&sk=t&sd=a

Whilst 5 thou does sound good at first, when you sit down and think about it I'm not so sure. 0.005" = 0.127mm and based off my own scratchbuilding work I would have thought that 0.1mm would be an absolute maximum resolution step.

IMO the best thing to do is get the base shape of the design done in 3d printing and then add details and rivets by hand.

A method I'm investigating that would lend itself well to designs like this is the use of a 3 axis router to cut all of the panels and such out of styrene sheet. These panels are then all glued together and details added. Alternately, basic 3D shapes can be cut using the router to make less work for assembly but then you would need to be cutting out from blocks of styrene and you still then have the same amount of work detailing it afterwards.

[Siam-Tiger]

It looks a little bit to flat, if you would make the side panels higher (they look so low in scale / comparison to the rest of the tank). But beside that, awesome work!

[shabbadoo]

Overall I like the look of it, but I would move the side sponsons to a forward position just behind the forward side view ports. Also, the side arched bits look out of place location-wise, but I would actually consider leaving them out altogether. You might want to make the armor skirting stick out a bit from the actual wheels so as to simulate that the wheels are not bolted to them such that they have some sort of shock absorption ability. However, in the interest of making a sturdy model, put some posts connecting that skirting to the inner tank hull so as to reinforce it(might need 2 or 3 or them per side). Obviously you put them where they don't interfere with anything, so take that into account when viewing the very rough diagrams below.


As to the legality of it, so long as you sell it as a generic tank and do not closely copy anything specifically GW(like weapon appearances) you should be fine.

[chaos0xomega]

http://www.advancedtautactica.com/vi...st=0&sk=t&sd=a

Whilst 5 thou does sound good at first, when you sit down and think about it I'm not so sure. 0.005" = 0.127mm and based off my own scratchbuilding work I would have thought that 0.1mm would be an absolute maximum resolution step.

IMO the best thing to do is get the base shape of the design done in 3d printing and then add details and rivets by hand.

A method I'm investigating that would lend itself well to designs like this is the use of a 3 axis router to cut all of the panels and such out of styrene sheet. These panels are then all glued together and details added. Alternately, basic 3D shapes can be cut using the router to make less work for assembly but then you would need to be cutting out from blocks of styrene and you still then have the same amount of work detailing it afterwards.

The polyjet "printer" can produce details almost twice as fine as that of shapeways, I'm pretty sure I can make a fairly detailed model and get good results. Some of the images I've seen of things done on the polyjet machines have blown my mind at the level of detail

And after making kitbashing 3 ork fightabommas and scratchbuilding a stompa, I am SO not going to hand rivet anything.

It looks a little bit to flat, if you would make the side panels higher (they look so low in scale / comparison to the rest of the tank). But beside that, awesome work!

Thanks, but what exactly do you mean? you mean like the track guard/side armor section that covers the treads?

Overall I like the look of it, but I would move the side sponsons to a forward position just behind the forward side view ports. Also, the side arched bits look out of place location-wise, but I would actually consider leaving them out altogether. You might want to make the armor skirting stick out a bit from the actual wheels so as to simulate that the wheels are not bolted to them such that they have some sort of shock absorption ability. However, in the interest of making a sturdy model, put some posts connecting that skirting to the inner tank hull so as to reinforce it(might need 2 or 3 or them per side). Obviously you put them where they don't interfere with anything, so take that into account when viewing the very rough diagrams below.

Originally they were farther forward, but I didn't like the appearance that it gave the overall design, so I moved them back.

As for the side arches, they weren't really meant to correspond to anything. I was considering removing them altogether, but I'm not really sure what else I could put on the sides to give it something to break up the big boring armor plates.

As for a suspension, I am so not designing one... Its the 41st Millenium,they have the technology to do some really funky stuff. I'm going to leave that bit to the modeller's imagination. Besides, it's way better than GW's models (Floating road wheels, side skirts that go all the way to the ground, caps on the side armor that suggest an axle,(meaning that there IS no suspension system...).

Your post idea is pretty good though, I hadn't considered that before, will definitely figure it out when the time comes.

[Siam-Tiger]

Stretch it like that: