Games Workshop Pricing Feedback Thread

[Mister Blak]

Thats rubbish. Is it cheaper to ship in bulk (containers) or as one off packages? Bulk of course, or companies would simply box up their products and drop them at the post office.
Maelstrom Games (before GW stepped in) was able to sell me in Australia models below UK RRP with free shipping. Wayland always charged less than $10 shipping.

To ship in bulk, especially considering GW sends sprues and boxes them in Aus, would cost cents per sprue. Possibly a dollar per kit at the high end.

The point isn't that they're shipping in bulk. The point is that Aus shipping is a Market which contains perhaps two competitors (yes, I'm exaggerating), who can therefore pretty much name their price.

There ultimately isn't enough competion in the Market for the companies to want to reduce their prices. I hope the irony of that isn't lost on GW.



BTW, I suppose I may be wrong. AFAIK, this is the genuine reason for the overpricing (perhaps mixed with a little avarice), but if any Aussies want to tell me otherwise I'll take their word for it.


EDIT: omg strewart I almost didn't notice. It's me! The guy who doesn't mind Lvl 6 spells!

[dwarfhold13]

With higher pricing, more people are shopping elsewhere, like ebay and the like. This in itself will cause price increase, but eventually (and I think it's already happening), there is a snowball effect and price goes up, more people buy elsewhere, they have to make the same amount of money, and little by little, they price themselves out. I know it would be horrible, but just like in the music world with companies like mesa boogie, all brick and mortar stores have to sell at the set MSRP to keep the playing field even between Gdub's online sales and all other retail outlets out there.

[Baragash]

I know it would be horrible, but just like in the music world with companies like mesa boogie, all brick and mortar stores have to sell at the set MSRP to keep the playing field even between Gdub's online sales and all other retail outlets out there.

Which would be illegal in the UK (and presumably the EU). GW would have to force that by upping the wholesale price.

[Sleazy]

I really, really, really find this line of thought frustrating. Every single item you have mentioned, with the possible exception of the yearly games event, should be a source of additional profit for GW. Yes, GWs total overhead will be vastly larger than that of Perry Miniatures, but I strongly suspect that overhead per unit will be a lot lower for GW than for the Perry's.

If you are OK with GW's prices, great. If you feel that GW offers good value to you, great. That said, GW prices for war games miniatures, rule books and related hobby supplies are at the high end of the spectrum. As a large company, with diverse income streams, GW should be able to use economies of scale to offer lower prices while maintaining profit. They seem to have chosen to do otherwise.

Absolutely, if GWs stores are so crippling they should lose them.

Any GW store unable to sustain itself should be closed.

Just wait till I'm in charge!

[Shamutanti]

Absolutely, if GWs stores are so crippling they should lose them.

Any GW store unable to sustain itself should be closed.

Just wait till I'm in charge!

From what I know, last year almost every GW store returned enough cash to sustain itself and make profit, even if it that wasn't LFL growth. I believe this year almost the entire chain is in growth though, so it's not like things are sour for them at the moment. Just wait till 40k 6th hits and then we'll no doubt see an even larger increase in the financials.

[shelfunit.]

From what I know, last year almost every GW store returned enough cash to sustain itself and make profit, even if it that wasn't LFL growth. I believe this year almost the entire chain is in growth though, so it's not like things are sour for them at the moment. Just wait till 40k 6th hits and then we'll no doubt see an even larger increase in the financials.

Are you talking about just the UK or every store world wide? The half year reports clearly show that the sales profit in both Asia and Australia were in deficit by several hundred thousand pounds, and that the UK and continental europe had dropped by several hundred thousand pounds as well. This is not growth. The end of year figures for the year Warhammer 8th was released do not show any particular growth in income either. 40K is assumed to be a bigger seller than Fantasy though, so there may be a small boost.

[Shamutanti]

Are you talking about just the UK or every store world wide? The half year reports clearly show that the sales profit in both Asia and Australia were in deficit by several hundred thousand pounds, and that the UK and continental europe had dropped by several hundred thousand pounds as well. This is not growth. The end of year figures for the year Warhammer 8th was released do not show any particular growth in income either. 40K is assumed to be a bigger seller than Fantasy though, so there may be a small boost.

If was referred to the UK, and the previous poster had stated GW stores sustaining themselves; I read that as employee wage + rent + bills.

And in the UK, almost every single store did that last year and has improved on that this year. So the stores are sustaining their own overheads in that sense.

[iamfanboy]

I hope it doesn't seem like I'm pickin' on you, Shamutanti, but... well, there's no polite way to put this - you're being very provincial.

Only one-third of GW's income comes from England, and their business model works there BECAUSE they spent ten-fifteen years destroying all possible competition. Withdrawing their stores there would be devastating short-term, simply because despite the growth of indies there still ain't enough of them to take up the slack.


Elsewhere in the world, the idea that GW stores are necessary for recruitment is farcical at best -how could GW have become a world brand if it needs a GW store in a place before people buy their products and play their games?

Not only that, but you admit that even in England, the heart of their corporate culture, most people don't even PLAY the wargames in a store, but in a club; clubs which have (in your word) gone over to Warmachine and other games. How did those games become popular without Privateer stores?

Going further back in time - Battletech. It existed prior to Warhammer, and still gains enough money to employ dozens of folks and earn a tidy profit for its parent company (Topps), and if FASA hadn't decided to just quit because of the 'death of tabletop games' it'd still be thriving. How did people get introduced to Battletech if there were no FASA stores around to do so?

[shelfunit.]

If was referred to the UK, and the previous poster had stated GW stores sustaining themselves; I read that as employee wage + rent + bills.

And in the UK, almost every single store did that last year and has improved on that this year. So the stores are sustaining their own overheads in that sense.

Fair enough - just wondering. The 1/2 yearly results still show a £111k drop in sales profits for the UK though, which does not imply the stores are infact doing better than previous years.

[Shamutanti]

Fair enough - just wondering. The 1/2 yearly results still show a £111k drop in sales profits for the UK though, which does not imply the stores are infact doing better than previous years.

When were those numbers published just out of interest? Cause I know the (UK) chain finished Xmas in financial growth (the first time in a good number of years I believe)

@iamfanboy

Well I refer only towards the UK concerning GW because that's my experience/knowledge in that country is based around it and no where else, which is why I kept referring to UK based information.

I'm not stating that Games Workshop will crash, burn and die should they close the stores. It's quite obvious the company wouldn't shut its doors. But it wouldn't have the profile it does now, it wouldn't have the resources it continues to have and be producing the amount of kits it does and then increasing that quality AND quantity because the influx of new painters and gamers into the 'hobby' would be dampned significantly to what it is now.

Do I believe that stores are required for recruitment to continue on the hobby in this period? Yes.

I can't remember saying people don't play wargames in store (I checked back but a few pages but couldn't nail it), so maybe it's been misinterrupted? I said that the stores currently provide that place for games to be played and supported within. Clubs are either closing, shifting away from the GCN and then becoming fairly secular or just moving onto other games systems (again I don't remember Warmachine being mentioned, but maybe I did drop it in there), and so you aren't seeing the same commitment or support from them, so the amount of assistant, help, playing time one would get would become quite limited in comparison to what it already is now.

Warmachine and Friends foster and grow because it's an environment that is made with and around hobbyists - and a fair number of the younger generation that flow into those clubs naturally come from GWs. There's even been attempts to nuture and keep that happening (the GCN, Community Vet. Sgts. The Vision of Wells in one man store's becoming a link between club and public, and the various other schemes and ideas trialled and tried). That's not going to continue on if stores close, at least not to the level it does now. Promoters within the UK scene may have some impact, they may keep it going (I've no doubt there would be some success), but not on the scale of what it is here.

At least that's my belief. As have the last few posts of mine. They're thoughts based around what I know, what I've been told and the things I've seen/experienced.

[Sgt John Keel]

When were those numbers published just out of interest? Cause I know the (UK) chain finished Xmas in financial growth (the first time in a good number of years I believe)

If we're only talking Christmas quarter, wasn't Christmas 2010 terrible for most of the high street operations because of force majeure conditions?

[shelfunit.]

When were those numbers published just out of interest? Cause I know the (UK) chain finished Xmas in financial growth (the first time in a good number of years I believe)

If we're only talking Christmas quarter, weren't Christmas 2010 terrible for most of the high street operations because of force majeure conditions?

The numbers are for the six months up to 27th november 2011 as can be found herehttp://investor.games-workshop.com/2...yearly-report/ .

[Omniassiah]

Shamutanti, from across the pond I see what you are saying, but the I don't see the issues of the stores closing as being a root problem but an issue with the way GW has run their business. In the US you are more then likely never going to see a GW store. my closest one is 2-3 hours away if not more depending on traffic. Recruitment happens with our GW plc stores, we have a decent sized GW group that has been grown through Indies. Now currently we are starting to see a bleed off into other game systems because Side by Side the GW loses out. I can get an entire FoW army for $200 with rules, that won't even be close to a starting force with GW considering their core rules alone are twice the cost of their competitors. If GW cut the bloat and reduced their expenses they might be able to compete. Instead of becoming a lean and mean business force they have become a bloated entity.

Now it works in the UK due to the draconian measures of the past that pretty much monopolized the miniature wargame industry for them there. But as other companies are starting to break in, it will only get worse for GW. So if GW is already losing market share with its current model, which it is, then it becomes a point of when to take the hit. They can either do it now at their own choosing or later when Indies have picked up enough that the market saturation that they have no choice.

Edit:
Also stores turning a profit does not mean they aren't losing money on them. If GW can make 50% profit be selling a model to a distributor, but only make a 10% profit after going through their own stores with the attendant costs, they still lost 40% of their profit. And that is something that I believe is very likely happening. Its not a matter of do they make a profit but if the end profit percent is worth it the incurred costs.

[Wintermute]

Only one-third of GW's income comes from England

I assume you mean the UK, not England

[Lord Dan]

I assume you mean the UK, not England

There's other parts to the UK?

[Wintermute]

There's other parts to the UK?

Yes, there are an additional 17 parts

But we are getting off-topic

[Druchii Monkey]

From what I know, last year almost every GW store returned enough cash to sustain itself and make profit, even if it that wasn't LFL growth. I believe this year almost the entire chain is in growth though, so it's not like things are sour for them at the moment. Just wait till 40k 6th hits and then we'll no doubt see an even larger increase in the financials.

The other thing with GW in the UK at least is their marketing spend, they don't really do what many other businesses do e.g. getting ads out there. Their marketing effort centres around their stores and the community these create - getting rid of B&M stores would be lunacy for many of the reasons you state Shamutanti - however if they did, then from a pure cost point of view they would need to significantly ramp up their marketing spend elsewhere.

[dwarfhold13]

You've also got to take into perspective that GW may be taking a slight loss in the stores but still considering the advertising aspect worth it. Billboards are what, 2000 dollars for a month? I know that a spot in a mall is roughly that or a little more, at least for the smaller spots like I see the GW stores are in. When you sum up everything that the stores do for them, I think they are worth keeping.
Is it really illegal in the UK to set a firm retail price? I know plenty of companies that do it here that are worldwide companies. Could it be maybe a rules thing between distributor and store?

[iamfanboy]

Well, considering that the local indie sells his minis at 20% off of retail price, I rather doubt that he has any forced price considerations...


Shamatunti, I just don't see how the British are so hobbled when it comes to gaming; somehow, the rest of the world does without GW stores and does just fine. Almost every time, it isn't a store that does recruitment of a new gamer, but an older friend or relative! Even if that person doesn't introduce them to Games Workshop, the independent store still can hook them into wargaming...

Indies recruit new players for new games BECAUSE of their variety of games - a person goes in for a pack of Magic cards, or to pick up the latest Forgotten Realms/Harry Potter/Naruto book and SEES something in the back that catches their eyes and fuels their imaginations. Could be Dungeons & Dragons, could be Warhammer - or if they play D&D already, maybe they look over the Warhammer Fantasy stuff and see a mini in there that could be their character so they pick it up, and start an army that way.

The idea of the 'store does most of the advertisement and recruitment' is a fallacy that fall apart when looked at anywhere but the UK, and the only reason it 'succeeds' as such in the UK is BECAUSE Games Workshop set out to destroy any other method.

Their 'churn and burn' attitude impairs older friend/relative recruitment because who could recommend a game that they themselves gave up on because it was too expensive/too frustrating to paint/too hard to remember the rules for?

Their 'one store, three games' sales pitch naturally means that people ONLY go to GW stores for GW stuff, and when they get tired of GW stuff (burnout happens to us all!) they don't go to the GW store at all - or if they have no interest in GW stuff to begin with, there's nothing else there to draw them in!


Not only that, not only that, but independents are supporting Games Workshop right now. They provide the mass of profits that support GW's stores, and that allow them to keep calm and carry on despite the glaring fact that their store plan simply does not work.

As I said before, why else would the ratio of independent/retail profit have vanished mysteriously from their last financial report? Not if it were a POSITIVE reflection upon their business plan. Even before then, the ratio was 50/50.

[Wintermute]

Is it really illegal in the UK to set a firm retail price?

All prices in the UK from suppliers are Recommended Retail Prices