Games Workshop Pricing Feedback Thread

[Avian]

The cost of the material is more *stable* (or at least it seems it will stay that way).

[paddyalexander]

The word from gwPLC is that the process is more expensive. Which explains how a much smaller company like Mantic can switch their metal models to resin without not only a price increase but actualy doubling the models in their boxes.

The material itself is significantly cheeper than white metal thanks to the explosion in the value of several key components of the alloy. While the molds don't last long they are also significantly cheeper to make and replace than those used in metal casting. The only significant cost is that resin casting requires skilled labour to produce quality products. Skilled labour, especialy in a highly specialised field like miniture casting can be expensive. And the exceptionaly high quality of finecast models, with their 97% cast sucess rate (thank you forever for that qoute Mr. Wells) shows exactly how much money gwPLC have invested into finding the best casters in the industry... it must be costing them a fortune

[Sgt John Keel]

While the molds don't last long they are also significantly cheeper to make and replace than those used in metal casting.

They are? Notwithstanding my impression that they were using the same pink silicone rubber for finecast as for metal (well, at least the colour matches, if not the exact material ), metal moulds are not very expensive. I think someone mentioned a bit above £100 for the US productions facilities to order a mould from the UK, including shipping?

Edit:

Molds ordered from the UK cost GW Memphis $121 to press and ship,[…]

[Spectrar Ghost]

Metal molds need to be vulcanized, and resin molds do not.

[Westside]

Metal molds need to be vulcanized, and resin molds do not.

That isn't true, you could use rtv silicone to make a mold for metal, just as you could use vulcanized rubber for a resin mold. The process are not exclusive.

[Mastodon]

The numbers from gwPLCs' financial reports over the last few years have shown that price increases are not turning into addittional profits but are rather keeping the year to year balance fairly level thanks to dropping sales that at the least match the yearly "price adjustment". I don't know how many buisnesses you would call healthy when its' sales volume consistantly shrinks by between 10% to 20% a year.

I'm very interested to see this years financial report at the end of the month. I seem to remember their mid-year report being good due to an unexpectedly large windfall from their computer game liscences. It'll also be nice to see how big an impact switching to finecast (a much cheeper material & process than metal) has had on their profit margins.



That should not be acceptable. It'd be like "everybody else was doing it" being a valid defence for looting durring a riot. However it is not just Austrailia getting this excellent customer care from gwPLC. Look at their exchange rate with the Euro. It works out to being about 40% or more than double the real exchange rate that has been floating at around 15% for a long time now. There are two gwPLC Hobby Centers in Ireland. 1 is in Dublin in the Rebublic selling the product in Euro. The other is in Belfast in Northren Ireland, only 85 miles away from the Dublin store, selling their stock in Brittish Pounds. So for about an hours drive each way to the North you can get yourself around a 25% discount buying directly from gwPLC.

I have no doubt that there are people living in Canada who can say similer.

The fact that Belfast is in the Uk and thus GW dont have to pay any import duty might have something to do with that.

[Sgt John Keel]

The fact that Belfast is in the Uk and thus GW dont have to pay any import duty might have something to do with that.

Surely Ireland and the UK both are members of the EU's Internal Market and thus any movement of product over the borders will not be subject to customs or other duties?

[Shimmergloom]

Just went to an independent store, the kind which has products of years ago lying around. Found some old (LotR) plastics, from when they were 20 to 24 models/box.

It's actually pretty sad that Independent stores are stuck with product like that lying around for years and years. It shows that people were not actually willing to pay those prices years ago, when they were 40-60% cheaper, so why should independents spend more money to get the new stock which will just languish on the shelves for years and years, unsold until someone comes in and buys it, because GW has raised the prices over 60% more in a 3-5 years time.

[Trasvi]

It's actually pretty sad that Independent stores are stuck with product like that lying around for years and years. It shows that people were not actually willing to pay those prices years ago, when they were 40-60% cheaper, so why should independents spend more money to get the new stock which will just languish on the shelves for years and years, unsold until someone comes in and buys it, because GW has raised the prices over 60% more in a 3-5 years time.

Or it could just be one of those indie stores that really aren't well managed. My local indie store still has an extensive range of AT-43 and Confrontation minis on the shelves. Some of the RPG books I don't think even the authors remember anymore.

That isn't true, you could use rtv silicone to make a mold for metal, just as you could use vulcanized rubber for a resin mold. The process are not exclusive.

I was under the impression that moulds for metal casting are a much higher durability rubber, to better cope with the heat of molten metal. You could definitely use the metal moulds for resin casting (as long as resin would work in a spin caster) but I'm not sure the opposite is true. In my experiences with home casting, I get about 40-60 casts from a pink silicone mould (using a release agent) before it begins to deteriorate. Regardless, I still don't expect the mould for metal would cost them significantly more - perhaps double, but not orders of magnitude like the moulds for plastic.

[shelfunit.]

Or it could just be one of those indie stores that really aren't well managed. My local indie store still has an extensive range of AT-43 and Confrontation minis on the shelves. Some of the RPG books I don't think even the authors remember anymore.

Whilst potentially true, it is often the case that the simplest explanation is the correct one. The implication otherwise being that if a shop doesn't sell something it is clearly doing something wrong by failing to sell it (obviously the job of the shop is to sell it, but any shop that is in business long enough for the old boxes to still be in stock knows how to sell stuff). The alternative (and far more often reason) is that the customers aren't interested in the poduct being sold - either due to not liking the product itself, or the value for money box isn't being ticked.

[loveless]

A good indie wouldn't keep products that don't sell, I'd imagine. Given a relative lack of interest in the area, one of the LGS's here has put all Lord of the Rings products on an "ask to order" basis - she'll order them in for you, but she's not wasting shelf space on them if she can avoid it. I think the only two items "in stock" are some Galadrhrim Knights and a plastic Troll. Battalions and Battleforces are handled the same way - there's been a Dwarf Battalion sitting there for well over 4 years now. The big boxes just don't move. The boxes around $45 and under? Can't stay on the damn shelves...

Another LGS has a much larger stock (focused GW/FoW store), but the LotR stuff just doesn't get ordered. There's maybe a single shelf of some troop boxes and no blisters or monsters I could see. Lots of 40K and Fantasy, though.

In short, I'd say the community plays into a bit - if the store picked up the LotR when the game was newish or otherwise experiencing a surge in play (War of the Ring, for instance), it may have made sense to order in some extra product from that line. If no one around plays it, though...well, it's going to languish and no more is going to get actively ordered. I don't think you can (necessarily) blame the store if the community doesn't like the game.

[C-Coen]

My post was in no way meant to reflect on the interest in the game or the faults in store management; instead it was purely there to illustrate the sadness of price rises. That the happiness I felt buying the 'old' and "cheap" box was short lived, as I also realised that price used to be normal a year or so ago and worse, that the new price (17,50 euros for 12 models) is exactly a 100% increase (yes, doubled) of the price I remember those same boxes being, I don't know, 7 years ago?
Especially bad for those kits that have been there since the very start, Moria Goblins to name one, which have the price doubled for exactly the same content, not even resculpts or so.
To add some information, however, it's a bit of an obscure store, more specialised in (trading) card games (Magic and whatever, but also boardgames) than GW stuff. Still had quite a good selection, though some of it was rather old. Not that that matters, I was quite happy to find some things I was afraid I'd never see again (things out of production for years). Not just old LotR boxes and books, but also metal Lizardmen Temple Guard, a.o.).

[underhivetrader]

Australian prices have nothing to do with the exchange rate.

They did back in Second Ed

[Dr Zoidberg]

Or to be more accurate, they did when that line of reasoning worked in GWs favour to jack the prices up. Now with the dollar so strong, all of a sudden, the exchange rate has nothing to do with the price imbalance.

[Trasvi]

Or to be more accurate, they did when that line of reasoning worked in GWs favour to jack the prices up. Now with the dollar so strong, all of a sudden, the exchange rate has nothing to do with the price imbalance.

It does: just, its the old exchange rate that they're basing it off. I've said it before and here it is again:
Under normal circumstances a consumer does not care what price a product or service costs in another location, if they are already happy with the price of the product.

Why? Imagine you are paying $10 for item A in location 1. For ten years you have been paying $10 per A, and you are happy with that price. Today it is $10, tomorrow it will be $10. If you are happy with that price, there is no incentive to look at other prices. Tomorrow, the price in location 2 changes to $5. But this price change doesn't affect you, because you are in location 1 and are happy paying $10.
There are a number of factors which must occur for you to want to buy the item in a different location:
1) You need to feel that the item is not good value.
2) The price at location 2, plus the price of getting the item from location 2 to location 1, must be less than the price at location 1 AND must be good value.
3) You need to know what the price is in that location
4) The product must be the same in both locations and be available to your location (and must not deteriorate during transportation)
5) The product, and the potential savings, must both be a significant portion of your available funds (rule of thumb: a bank note)
6) The purchase is not an 'impulse' purchase.

So for example...
If you think that bananas as good value at your local grocery store, you don't shop around. (#1)
If you bananas are 50% off 100km away, you won't get them there because the cost (time+money) is more than the amount you save (#2)
If the price of bananas at another location is only advertised in the local paper, you won't be aware of the prices at another location and won't buy there (#3)
You wont get bananas shipped from Europe to Australia, because by the might be rotten or damaged by the time they get to you (#4)
You won't buy a bunch of bananas from another location if the total saving is only 10c, even if everything else is satisfied. Likewise, you probably won't do it if the total saving is only 1% until the order is sufficiently large.

But you will buy Warhammer models, because you know the price, its a significant investment, its planned in advance, the shipping is free, the discount is large, it is the same in both locations and not required right away. But very few people will buy a single pot of Chaos Black from wayland, because of reasons 2,5,6.
Similarly, people do the same things for books, computer games, portable electronics, clothes, jewellery, cosmetics. But you can't do it for cars, TV's, food. And if you look at each of the mentioned industries, you see the same thing. Clothes retailers in Australia are fretting because people walk into the store and try items for size before ordering online. Electronics retailers for the most part had lowered prices enough that the the price difference is acceptable. Stawberrynet.com exists to provide cheap cosmetics. bookdepository does the same thing for print books. All these industries are in trouble in Australia.
And the main thing is - due to the overheads of running store in Australia (due to rent and wages) it is very difficult to approach the overseas costs whilst still maintaining a profit.

/end rant.

[frozenwastes]

Australia is probably better served by the club model rather than a store centric model anyway. In Canada, GW subjects their customers to about half the "Screw You" price they do to their Australian customers. GW gaming has dried up at local stores in many places, shifting to private clubs where people order from US discounters. UK discounters used to be the go-to source, but that ended. Now we can get things for slightly less than GW wholesale prices. So how can a local store compete?

They don't. They largely sell other things like comic books, collectible card games or have expanded into other games.

[hobgoblinuk]

Hi folks, just some thoughts.

GW makes about 10% operating margin (ex royalities) which looks a modest return in my view. The gross margin figure is sometimes mentioned on the net, however this means nothing as it's pre costs - I could have a company making 90% + gross and still lose money.

Unlike many companies they have not subbed out their manufacturing to low cost countries, hence providing much needed jobs in the US/UK, the retail HC's also give hundreds of people employment in UK/US.

GW could only dream about the net margins made on the pizza and drink I am about to have delivered, just a little bit of balance needed is my view.

[Baragash]

Whilst it's a little below what might be expected of a retailer of GW's turnover, it's not modest for a UK high street retailer.

[shelfunit.]

Hi folks, just some thoughts.

GW makes about 10% operating margin (ex royalities) which looks a modest return in my view. The gross margin figure is sometimes mentioned on the net, however this means nothing as it's pre costs - I could have a company making 90% + gross and still lose money.

Unlike many companies they have not subbed out their manufacturing to low cost countries, hence providing much needed jobs in the US/UK, the retail HC's also give hundreds of people employment in UK/US.

GW could only dream about the net margins made on the pizza and drink I am about to have delivered, just a little bit of balance needed is my view.

Were GW to cut out the majority of their shops they would be running at a phenomenally higher margin than 10% - very much close, if not exceeding the fast food industry's margin.

[hobgoblinuk]

shelf, if GW thought that was in the long term interest of the hobby, they could do that starting tomorrow. In my view it demonstrates they are thinking longer term and supporting the hobby.

GW is not just a UK retail business, it's an integrated specialist manufacturing/retail company and I wish more companies would support the UK/US by keeping
their operations based here, we may not be in such an economic mess if this was the case.

Enough said on this from me.