Games Workshop Pricing Feedback Thread

[Necronartum]

Look at you trying to stack the deck... The X-Box 360 was priced at £209.99 GBP RRP at launch, in reality you could pick one up with a game for about £180. So that's £180 for around 50 hours of gameplay (any half descent single player game will give at least 50 hours of gameplay, whilst an online optioned game may well give thousands of hours of gameplay). In addition, nobody pays that much for games.. hell you can pick up plenty of classics brand new for just over a tenner. Lets not forget that we are comparing the design and production of an advanced technological product compared to little plastic men. I've worked in the games industry and the amount of work that goes into one game is staggering.

Then we are both guilty of stacking . The RRP of the HD edition was £279.99. So fair cop, I should have been somewhere in between. But with regards to buying classic games, we can all pick cheaper options. Of course I could pick my models up from eBay or another online discount store for cheaper. Or build my Dark Eldar army with last edition's models, which cheaper. The reason I used the price I did was because most gamers will buy a few new releases during the year. As well as some pre-owned or 'classic' titles.

Then I am sorry that I have to be rude enough to say that you do not know much. Besides, this hobby cannot be started in any meaningful way for £100 and anybody who says otherwise is just being obtuse

I whole heartedly agree. But I'm not arguing you can build a 1500 point army in less than £100, simply make a start. As for not being an expert on hobby pricing, I can only work with my own experience. Perhaps you could name a few modern hobbies which can be started reasonably within the £100 bracket. I can't, so I obviously have expensive hobbies ^^.

I am trying to talk some of my mates into to giving warhammer a go and price is always the sticking point , what chance do I have with a price rise? A whelks in a supernova.

Initial outlay for WFB any army, small points games, rough

Manual £45
Army Book £25
One battalion box for chosen army £70
Special choices £50 -£100
Rare £30-60
Character models £20-30
Primer £10
Paints + brushes + basing etc £30-40

So that's minimum outlay of £280 to play that game in any meaningful way and realistically £400+ to have around 1250 points battle with pretty much no variation on what you field. 1250 is a pretty tiny game and even if you spread that cost over 4 months... far too much for what it is.

Course, this doesn't include a gaming table, any scenery, magnetic movement trays etc etc etc etc etc etc...............

I am having the same problem at the moment trying to get my mates to convert from 40k! I share your lament! Shame you don't live local! ^^

[EmperorNorton]

As for not being an expert on hobby pricing, I can only work with my own experience. Perhaps you could name a few modern hobbies which can be started reasonably within the £100 bracket. I can't, so I obviously have expensive hobbies ^^.

I can't think of all that many hobbies, either, but wargaming is definitely one of them.
For £100 you could get a rulebook, a starter set, some extra minis and the needed painting supplies for any number of games (Malifaux, Infinity, Freebooter's Fate, Dystopian Wars, Uncharted Seas, Eden, Cutlass...).

[sakura_ninja]

A game for £100?, easy
Prussian army box + black powder £98
http://store.warlordgames.com/prussi...her-6250-p.asp

That was easy.

Hobbies in general, walking, cycling, train spotting, plane spotting, bird spotting, or are we assuming a modern hobby must be something else?.

[BooMeRLiNSKi]

Then we are both guilty of stacking . The RRP of the HD edition was £279.99. So fair cop, I should have been somewhere in between. But with regards to buying classic games, we can all pick cheaper options. Of course I could pick my models up from eBay or another online discount store for cheaper. Or build my Dark Eldar army with last edition's models, which cheaper. The reason I used the price I did was because most gamers will buy a few new releases during the year. As well as some pre-owned or 'classic' titles.

First thanks for the reply and sorry if I came across a little... grumpy, frankly I am in the morning

Anyways, those cheaper options don't really exist for Warhammer. Most stuff on ebay either goes for the same price or more than I can get it from an independent retailer, occasionally a job lot will go for a pretty descent discount... but then you are paying for models that have often been poorly posed and put together. I would say that if you got everything for your army using the previous methods you will save roughly 25% off the GW list price, which totalwargamer have been running at weekends for months on end now.

Perhaps you could name a few modern hobbies which can be started reasonably within the £100 bracket. I can't, so I obviously have expensive hobbies ^^.

Certainly:

Sea Fishing you can get all the gear you need to experience pretty much 100% of the hobby (IMHO) for under £100, you can also do inland fishing for under £100 but need a license. Starter kits can be picked up for £50 and they really DO have everything you need to start and carry on for years bar breakage.

Chess

Football (we'll use this as a catch all for the many sports you can do with bare minimum outlay... hell you can pick up a half descent mountain-bike for £100 second hand if your half lucky)

Canvas painting.

Playing guitar or any number of other instruments, a second hand starter drum kit or base can easily be got for a ton.

I am having the same problem at the moment trying to get my mates to convert from 40k! I share your lament! Shame you don't live local! ^^

I'm only in brighton Only really just getting started back into the hobby though, gonna check out the Brighton warlords club soon enough.

Anyways, it "shouldn't" be a hard sell to these guys. These are people who enjoy a bit of MTG, regularly sit down for a game of talisman and used to play 40k (mixed between them), but they all think that the prices are a joke currently for a lot of stuff, with raises? Hmmmmmm

I can't think of all that many hobbies, either, but wargaming is definitely one of them. For £100 you could get a rulebook, a starter set, some extra minis and the needed... <snip>

Remember we are discussing GW here so lets not extend this definition to wargaming.

For £100 you cannot realistically start this game at all

Lets go with WFB

Lets assume you don't want to play either high elves or skaven (a fair assumption), you are shopping at discount retailers and you have a place to play with a table and scenery, so you have to buy:

One hardback rulebook £40
One armybook £20
One battalion box set (best bang for your buck for filling out the core of your army) £60

Now we are already over budget and really we've only just got started

2 Character models one caster one hero £20
Couple of bits from your special £50
Something from rare £30

Ok, yay we have an army.. except it is really quite small and you can't change much (this is also assuming you know enough about the game to be able to select and design this starter force which isn't a given and lack of knowledge can be.. pricey), but it is an actual playable and proper start to the game except...

Paints, clippers, glue etc...

OK, so lets say you buy a citadel hobby starter set so..

£30

But that doesn't have all the paints you need to get started so another

£10 sundry paints, glazes and washes

Oh and you can't play without movement trays

£10

So £270 pounds for what I would consider is realistically the barest start to this game for one person, double expenditure for a couple of mates to start the game together BEFORE prices go up.

When it costs more for ten plastic guys that you put together yourself off sprues then it does for a DVD player, then somebody is taking the piss.

[sasheep]

I whole heartedly agree. But I'm not arguing you can build a 1500 point army in less than £100, simply make a start. As for not being an expert on hobby pricing, I can only work with my own experience. Perhaps you could name a few modern hobbies which can be started reasonably within the £100 bracket. I can't, so I obviously have expensive hobbies

Mantic, warmachine, dystopian wars, infinity etc all can be started for under £100. I recently placed an order for 2 infinity starter packs, the dystopian rules and a starter fleet all for £99. Granted that doesn't include paint and glue, but that is still enough to play 2 different games (with my mate using his own dw fleet). As for other hobbies, I started playing dungeons and dragons and got all the books I needed for under £100. When I started M:tG I spent about £40 on a number of starter decks and boosters.

[BooMeRLiNSKi]

Mantic, warmachine, dystopian wars, infinity etc all can be started for under £100. I recently placed an order for 2 infinity starter packs, the dystopian rules and a starter fleet all for £99. Granted that doesn't include paint and glue, but that is still enough to play 2 different games (with my mate using his own dw fleet). As for other hobbies, I started playing dungeons and dragons and got all the books I needed for under £100. When I started M:tG I spent about £40 on a number of starter decks and boosters.

Ok I think I see your point but am not sure...

This is a games workshop pricing thread, so if your point was other manufacturers of similar games (albeit with a much, much lower model count) are able to place there product at a pricing point that allows a sub £100 startup cost, then point well made. This doesn't lend support to GW policy however, quite the opposite. It doesn't totally compare though as I said; much lower model count.

It comes to something when it cost me less for the gear that keeps me safe, snug and warm + breathing 30m under the surface of the ocean in freezing temperatures.

[Sean_OBrien]

Ok I think I see your point but am not sure...

This is a games workshop pricing thread, so if your point was other manufacturers of similar games (albeit with a much, much lower model count) are able to place there product at a pricing point that allows a sub £100 startup cost, then point well made. This doesn't lend support to GW policy however, quite the opposite. It doesn't totally compare though as I said; much lower model count.

It comes to something when it cost me less for the gear that keeps me safe, snug and warm + breathing 30m under the surface of the ocean in freezing temperatures.

If you want high model counts - just look at the historicals. Play something that is available in plastic, and for £100 you can get the rules plus a good sized army. Someone linked to the Prussian Boxed set above - I think that is 150 or so figures.

You can also look at smaller scales. £100 in 15 mm gets you a whole heck of a lot, and modern 15 mm miniatures are actually very nicely detailed. A friend of mine has started doing what he calls HO-Hammer. Basically a few years back he got so annoyed with GW he sold off his armies (1 Fantasy and 2 40K armies). He then replaced them with 15 mm figures and has complete armies (meaning every option) for every fantasy army and is about half done with the 40K armies. So far he is still working off the money he managed to make off from selling his old GW stuff. Although on the face of it it might seem limiting since you may not find another gamer in the same scale - but when you can afford to buy two whole armies for the price of a GW rulebook...then it is much easier to get someone else to join in. Heck, £100 will get you 4 or 5 Mighty Armies army boxes.

[BooMeRLiNSKi]

If you want high model counts - just look at the historicals. Play something that is available in plastic, and for £100 you can get the rules plus a good sized army. Someone linked to the Prussian Boxed set above - I think that is 150 or so figures.

I'll have to admit to having less than zero interest in historic wargaming, even warhammer players get to look down on historic wargamers as being sad and nerdy

You can also look at smaller scales. £100 in 15 mm gets you a whole heck of a lot, and modern 15 mm miniatures are actually very nicely detailed. A friend of mine has started doing what he calls HO-Hammer. Basically a few years back he got so annoyed with GW he sold off his armies (1 Fantasy and 2 40K armies). He then replaced them with 15 mm figures and has complete armies (meaning every option) for every fantasy army and is about half done with the 40K armies. So far he is still working off the money he managed to make off from selling his old GW stuff. Although on the face of it it might seem limiting since you may not find another gamer in the same scale - but when you can afford to buy two whole armies for the price of a GW rulebook...then it is much easier to get someone else to join in. Heck, £100 will get you 4 or 5 Mighty Armies army boxes.

Like you say, it'd cut me off from the gaming scene.

Personally I think GW need to watch it, 3D printers are becoming more accessible and people remember.

[Mastodon]

All of these 'Its too expensive to start' posts are interesting to me since I've had a massive upswing in secondary school age kids starting this year. As some of you know I run my own independent shop in the UK, and my prices are roughly the same as GW. I just round down the £1.50's etc, so a starter bundle in my shop is about £3 cheaper than the shop 10 miles away.

Just today, I had a father, mother and son come in. Mum immediately walks up to me and says he's interested in starting Space Wolves, and that they've looked on the internet and were thinking about a battleforce, then just asked me what else he needed to play with the school club. (Another side note, I've had at least 4 kids in from the same school, that teacher is doing a fine job for my figure sheets.)

They left with the codex, a hobby starter set, battleforce, case and enough extra paint to do the sand scheme. Total cost £150+ and Mum didnt bat an eyelid. To be honest I probably could have got them to leave with more.

What was also interesting was that Mum and Dad were very in favour of doing this since 'It gets him off that bloody xbox'. I dont know if theres a bit of cultural shift between America and the UK, but its certainly something I've noticed more and more. Something to 'get them off world of warcraft' or 'off facebook'.

I've also posted about the pocket money thing before, but in my experience these kids are just bought something once a week/fortnight. I regularly get kids dropping £50 because gran had come to visit too.

[Asensur]

Price rise is tonight, isn't it?

[sasheep]

Ok I think I see your point but am not sure...

This is a games workshop pricing thread, so if your point was other manufacturers of similar games (albeit with a much, much lower model count) are able to place there product at a pricing point that allows a sub £100 startup cost, then point well made. This doesn't lend support to GW policy however, quite the opposite. It doesn't totally compare though as I said; much lower model count.

It comes to something when it cost me less for the gear that keeps me safe, snug and warm + breathing 30m under the surface of the ocean in freezing temperatures.

Yeah that was my point. Although I will add that Mantic's King's of War model count is just as large as WFB. In fact my 2000 point KoW elf army is substantially larger than my 2000 point WFB WE army and if I were to use it for as a WFB elf army it would be closer to 3000 points. Come to think of it I think I got all of that army on the mantic sale for about £100 (this includes buying my heavy cavalry, drake cavalry and a lord on a dragon). With the new starter sets coming out soon the starting up price for KoW is going to be even lower. For £29.99 you will be getting a small 32 page rule book, dice, and a small starter force (anywhere between 30 and 52 models). These will be a mix of infantry, cavalry and warmachines and offers a saving on buying these sets individually. If you then go on to add one of the £49.99 army sets you will have a decent sized army with rules and dice and Mantic points (which you can save to get a special edition hero among other things).

EDIT: Yeah I see your point about GW being cheaper than some hobbies, my mountain bike gear has cost me more than any of my GW armies and my motorbike easily cost more than everything I have bought from GW in the last 5+ years.

[Iron Puritan]

I'll have to admit to having less than zero interest in historic wargaming, even warhammer players get to look down on historic wargamers as being sad and nerdy

That still doesn't stop companies like Warlord and Perry from delivering substantial value, often using the same types of materials and processes, to those who are interested. It's not like they are setting their prices out of pity.

[The Plastic Surgeon]

I thought the Dark Elder flier was aud$84?

Oh Wayland, please hurry up with ROW!

[Yodhrin]

Good point there. I think the most I've ever paid for a game was fifty quid and that was for a collector's edition (Batman: Arkham City).

Not that good, you also have to consider the state of the industry when comparing the two. Costs of production have increased drastically for triple-A titles because the market has expanded to allow for such large budgets, and in addition companies today benefit from established publishing houses, national and even international retail brands exclusively selling computer games on every major high street, a vast pool of talent to draw upon, ready to use commercial and even open-source software packages, and many other factors which create an economy of scale. If modern computer games were created with the same time and staffing investment as the Sonic game given in the example, they would cost virtually nothing by comparison to the "blockbuster" titles like Mass Effect, and you can see this when you look at the indie game market on the PC.

Back when that Sonic game was first made, some of their costs were lower, some higher, with likely a net effect of being lower overall, but they were selling a fraction of the number of units they could push out today. When you take all the factors into account, this idea that the games industry are suffering under the economic lash is entirely fictional, they make as much profit as they ever have, perhaps more, and while he PR department might trot out "high production costs" as an excuse for releasing "Sonic 12 - The Sonic-ening" and simultaneously canning an innovative new IP, the reality is that the people who own the gaming companies are what's changed, and the types of professional financiers who sit on the boards these days can't see beyond the next quarterly review.

[Lord Dan]

...the reality is that the people who own the gaming companies are what's changed, and the types of professional financiers who sit on the boards these days can't see beyond the next quarterly review.

Does this sound like someone we know? I feel like this is familiar somehow...

[samiens]

Boomerlinski: just a quick point, I play football (soccer) for 2 teams with a cost of about £12 per week plus travel. Then you have to add on specialist kit (im a keeper) that needs replacing semi-regularly. Football isn't a cheap hobby for me- and in fact I dare say most hobbies where you take things a bit seriously can actually cost in the region if a gw game, whether the cost is hire, replacing gear, start up costs or a mixture.

Ultimately its entirely subjective as to whether any hobby is worth the expense.

Just a final, more general, point on kids playing 40k- whenever I see kids playing its with a few hundred points, rather than full 1500+ point armies, just like I did back in 2nd ed. I rather think our views of start up costs are prejudiced by what we know of the game and what we consider to be a 'functional' game size- not constraints that apply to everyone (I actually really enjoy smaller games for what its worth- its a different beast to my normal tourney style)

[SunTzu]

Just a final, more general, point on kids playing 40k- whenever I see kids playing its with a few hundred points, rather than full 1500+ point armies, just like I did back in 2nd ed. I rather think our views of start up costs are prejudiced by what we know of the game and what we consider to be a 'functional' game size- not constraints that apply to everyone (I actually really enjoy smaller games for what its worth- its a different beast to my normal tourney style)

Ahhh... but do they play small games because the thought of playing larger games never occurred to them, or do they play small games because it's all they can afford? ;-)

[BooMeRLiNSKi]

Boomerlinski: just a quick point, I play football (soccer) for 2 teams with a cost of about £12 per week plus travel. Then you have to add on specialist kit (im a keeper) that needs replacing semi-regularly. Football isn't a cheap hobby for me- and in fact I dare say most hobbies where you take things a bit seriously can actually cost in the region if a gw game, whether the cost is hire, replacing gear, start up costs or a mixture.

I don't disagree with anything you have said, but it isn't quite a like for like comparison.

The costs I originally listed were for starting WFB and assembling and painting a small 1250 point force with little variation, the football equivalent of having a kick around most Sundays in a pair of cheap shorts and some cheap astro turf boots.

Now if I was to parallel your example across you would have two armies of 4k points worth and a whole stock of modelling supplies. Oh and your main army would be wood elves.. after all you play keeper

[New Cult King]

If you really want to compare like for like, you'd compare GW to other wargaming systems.

[SunTzu]

If you really want to compare like for like, you'd compare GW to other wargaming systems.

...which is exactly what happens. And GW is always shown to be a ripoff. But then some bright spark will say something like "but GW is cheaper than collecting original Da Vinci paintings!" and we go round again.