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Thread: Games Workshop Pricing Feedback Thread

  1. #21
    Chapter Master ashc's Avatar
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    Re: Games Workshop Pricing Feedback Thread

    Is it not that most people's arguments on here are that if GW reduced individual unit prices, then people would consider buying more units though? They would not necessarily increase their net number of players (although I reckon a price decrease could see a minority of borderline people swayed over to buying) but those players already in the hobby would be buying more? - Just playing devil's advocate to keep the conversation up here.

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  2. #22
    Chapter Master Putty's Avatar
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    Re: Games Workshop Pricing Feedback Thread

    i for one, will be encouraged to expand my army collection and selection if the models were cheaper.

    instead of building an mech IG veteran list that I know that will work, I can actually buy more russes, artillery units and even the IG infantry-men to expand my army if they were value for money.

    if a IG infantry box came with special and heavy weapons with the relevant infantry figures to support a full squad, i wouldn't hesitate to get a few.

  3. #23
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    Re: Games Workshop Pricing Feedback Thread

    Apologists usually criticise those that object to price rises as being unrealistic in their expectations of a price CUT. But in my experience a price cut is not what most expect. They just don't expect the obscene price rises that outstrip underlying inflation by a multiple!

    To win our support GW don't necessarily need to cut prices, they just need to stop jacking their prices to ridiculous levels such that only insane addicts are prepared to pay them.
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  4. #24
    Chapter Master Llew's Avatar
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    Re: Games Workshop Pricing Feedback Thread

    I'm eagerly watching what is going to happen with Mantic. It looks like the guy who is running it has tons of experience at GW himself. With his stated goal, it looks like he has a shot of showing GW how to do plastic minis for cheaper and still make money.

    As it stands, GW would probably have to hold flat for 10 years before I'd start considering their minitatures again. (And, I have enough already to paint for that long.) Depending on what sort of challenge Mantic puts forth, GW could find themselves shut out from my buying decisions for even longer.

  5. #25
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    Re: Games Workshop Pricing Feedback Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ashc View Post
    Is it not that most people's arguments on here are that if GW reduced individual unit prices, then people would consider buying more units though? They would not necessarily increase their net number of players (although I reckon a price decrease could see a minority of borderline people swayed over to buying) but those players already in the hobby would be buying more? - Just playing devil's advocate to keep the conversation up here.

    Ash
    having experienced first had the sharp intake of breath that most parents do when told the cost of the minimal 'starter bundle' i'd say that a lower price would tempt more parent's to buy the starter bundle.

    some info on the starter bundle:

    system starter box
    game mat
    black spray
    hobby starter set
    white dwarf

    GW reckon this is the minimal sale that should be made to beginners, this is for quite an astute and valid reason, everything in that bundle is required to fulfil every aspect of the hobby, assembling, painting, gaming and vision. if even one piece of that is missing you'll get less enjoyment out of it. the more enjoyment you have the more likely you are to go back and purchase additions.

    so why oh why does this cost in the region of £120? if it cost even a fraction less it would be easier to sell and it would strengthen the chance of future revenue from that customer.

    we're seeing this practice from rackham who are selling a reasonably price starter set containing scenery, dice, a tape measure and 2 pre painted armies.

    sure, less enjoyment for the experienced hobbyist who wants to paint and assemble their own models but for the beginner this is by far the better option and is going to give them the best possible experience from the get go with minimal outlay and will encourage them to expand and spend more and this is where GW is falling down in terms of gaining new beginners and beginner retention.



    don't get me started on general pricing though, ignoring their hobby materials (which i view as convenient sales (ie i'm in GW buying a box of models thus i may as well get a can of spray to save myself from going to B&Q)) and their paints/and paintbrushes (which are adequate quality/price) their new precedent of doing away with price bands and charging based on a models perceived in game worth is a dangerous one for the consumer and also for GW if they get (even more) greedy.

    i think the way they've handled themselves this year has been disgraceful. after releasing good sales figures and suggesting that the company was on the up they then proceed by denying the staff a wage increase and continue with their yearly price rise (based on which ever reason they can use as a levy at the time (last year it was the 'rising cost of raw materials' which were in fact declining at the time they raised prices)), this they rounded out by removing the price bands and charging on game value (something we know they've been doing for ages but the price bands kept things at a reasonable price all things considered). and this is only 6/7 months in, they've got 5 months left in which to try and do more damage to their company.

  6. #26
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    Re: Games Workshop Pricing Feedback Thread

    The black reach starter was awesome Value and even though its gone up a tenner is still good value.

    But i suspect this single price rise was purely due to the fact that splitters had such a good time with this single box, if you check eBay AoBR miniatures are aplenty.

    But from another view, there are no real starter sets ie: Codex, 1500 point of troops, and Paint set for said Army. drop the mini rulebook in here and its a winner.

    Variant Starter packs could be themed ie. "Fast Attack Army".

    But there is only so much you can really do, and at the same time maintain a good need to come back and buy more.
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  7. #27
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    Re: Games Workshop Pricing Feedback Thread

    The GW pricing has finally got me over to Warmachine/Hordes. While I really wanted to start a Warriors of Chaos army, I could not rationalize the cost to even start it at this point. Where I can easily start any PP army for around $50 and each time I buy something, it is immediately usable in the game.

    That being said, I know I will pick up a few things for my existing Tomb Kings army when they are redone and hopefully bring my Death Guard out of protest retirement (I know that does no good, just a personal thing) if rules for the traitor legions come back. My days of starting complete new armies are done for now until pricing gets better, which IMHO, it will not.

  8. #28
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    Re: Games Workshop Pricing Feedback Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Earl_UK View Post
    The black reach starter was awesome Value and even though its gone up a tenner is still good value.

    But i suspect this single price rise was purely due to the fact that splitters had such a good time with this single box, if you check eBay AoBR miniatures are aplenty.
    it was probably more down to the fact that they saw how well it sold and thought they'd cash in quick. but you've missed the point entirely, to veterans AoBR is a good deal because we know and accept the separate costs of the components contained inside, as part of the beginners bundle (to sell to...and here's the kicker, 'beginners') it becomes an unwieldy, expensive outlay.

    Quote Originally Posted by Earl_UK View Post
    But from another view, there are no real starter sets ie: Codex, 1500 point of troops, and Paint set for said Army. drop the mini rulebook in here and its a winner.
    that's not a starter set, a starter set does just what it says on the tin, it's a good base to start from for any 'starter' player, ie someone new, what you want is a...hmm, wehats the right word for it?...ah yes, battleforce which is a perfectly valid army starter for a new army (not a new player).

    by using white dwarf and the suggestions in the starter set a new beginner can gain a vision and expand their existing armies from AoBR or go down the route of a new army by buying a battle force, it's a good system.

    Quote Originally Posted by Earl_UK View Post
    Variant Starter packs could be themed ie. "Fast Attack Army".

    But there is only so much you can really do, and at the same time maintain a good need to come back and buy more.
    no one needs to come back and buy more, people come back and buy more when this list is adhered to (this isn't GW practice, but merely my observations and impressions from the short time in which i worked for them):

    1. a fun intro game (rules/stats/points are irrelevant, it must be FUN!!!)
    2. an introduction to painting (quick and simple methods, if it takes to long they wont be interested)
    3. purchase of all or a large part of the starter bundle
    4. initial support (white dwarf from bundle, starter/scenario guide from bundle/links to website)
    5. continued support in the form of friends, parents, staff, events and lessons


    if there's a break in one of those points the retention of a possible hobbyist is hard if not improbable (that's not to say impossible, once the seed has been sown there's always a chance of a plant, but watering it and giving it adequate light certainly make it more likely)

    people come back and buy more because they feel that they are making a good investment.

    if the staff fall down on points one and two then the parent will see that their child isn't in to it and is unlikely to invest in point 3 regardless of price

    if the staff succeed in both points one and two the parent will see this as a good investment, it's something to occupy their child, perhaps giving them more free time and it's creative (any parent willing to allow and follow a child in to a GW will probably have an interest in their creative development) HOWEVER the price will be a factor, if the initial investment is to high then the investment wont be made at all.

    i feel GW are trying to appease veterans at the preclusion of beginners with the current trend in starter sets. what a beginner needs is something visually appealing, ready to go and simple, something which AoBR/BFSP certainly are not. These boxes should contain 1 or two small units (5 man) some nice 1 piece (and thus cheap) scenery, dice, a tape measure, a compact rulebook and a guide suggesting what to do next, to top this off the models and scenery need to be either:

    pre-assembled and painted or
    the starter box needs to come with all that is required to paint and assemble said models/scenery

    and i'd go down the 'pre' route if i were GW. they've just had a fun intro with nicely painted figures and a stunning game board (all of which is probably beyond their skills at this time) and they're going to want to replicate it as much as possible which they're going to find hard and thus dis-heartening at this stage.

    combining it on to one boxed set also serves another purpose, it prevents the parent from buying part of the bundle and thus not giving the child the full experience.

    and this could probably get away with being sold for £60-£80.

    the long and short of it is i think GW really need to appraise who they're aiming their 'starter' sets at

    i know that last bit was quite irrelevant to the thread but i feel it gives a bit of background as to why they have such a low retention rate and thus (and here's the bit that's relevant) need to charge more for those that they do retain. if they could re-structure point 3 at a lower cost they'd have a higher chance of retaining customers and thus would be able to charge a lower price as a result of have a larger customer base

  9. #29
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    Re: Games Workshop Pricing Feedback Thread

    bringerofdecay:

    This kind of starter set is exactly what I think too is missing. I made a short attempt to write this down in the "Our Hobbys future" thread (which got closed)

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  10. #30

    Re: Games Workshop Pricing Feedback Thread

    People online need to stop crying so much about the price of things...

    Sure the cost of an army is expensive, however anything else of similar quality on a per model, per whatever basis costs more, or cost about the same for lower quality.

    Their are a few kits that are obscenely priced such as terminators, however over all the cost of standard infantry and tank models is inline with the cost of toys.

    I worked in a grocery store part time, on and off for almost 10 years. Over that time the price of things like OJ, pop, etc, all the stuff that people buy that isn't price matched basically approximately doubled. However wages did not increase and in general the price of production might have even gone down.

    The sad truth is that it isn't Games Workshop that is jacking prices up, it's our whole culture. Games Workshop products are increasing in price the same rate as most other similar things, they were just slightly expensive to begin with.

    I work and live downtown and spend almost $200 a week on just food and immediate expenses, I don't like doing it, but really I couldn't get away with paying much less. When you live in a city where lunch is $10 for a sandwich or other fast food and a bottle of water is $2, paying $30-$50 for a box of models doesn't seem so bad.

  11. #31
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    Re: Games Workshop Pricing Feedback Thread

    I must admit after 13years of gw my wallets complaints have gotten too loud and for the past 3/4years ive been slowly shrinking my spending.

    Firstly white dwarf went then I had to sell old armies to start new ones. Then I switched to only buying £20 a month in my gw store( I rarely game there but still, I think £5 a week to able to game isnt bad) buying the rest online.
    Still the biggest shocker was that rather than price per mini quality/quantity its now comman practice to include the units in game effect into the price ?
    Every time I go into GW I gaze at the shelves with veiled dismay prices go up (in-evitable unfortunatly) constantly it seems whilst content shrinks and game play goes south (I've stopped playing fantasy outside of friends since deamons).
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  12. #32
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    Re: Games Workshop Pricing Feedback Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Osbad View Post
    To win our support GW don't necessarily need to cut prices, they just need to stop jacking their prices to ridiculous levels such that only insane addicts are prepared to pay them.
    I think opinions may vary here. I for one think GW prices are already too high such that only insane addicts will pay them. I stopped buying GW miniatures about 6 ago, and don't see myself coming back even if Gw maintains the current prices.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Base View Post
    People online need to stop crying so much about the price of things...

    Their are a few kits that are obscenely priced such as terminators, however over all the cost of standard infantry and tank models is inline with the cost of toys.
    There's a big difference between unpainted, unassembled plastic toy soldiers still on the sprue vs a Transformer or Barbie Doll that comes full painted with articulated joints, or a ready-to-play out of the box board game with hundreds of pieces like Axies & Allies.

    Plastic miniatures are more akin to army men (which, btw comes fully painted and off the sprue), that you can get 50 of for $8.

    Look at it this way, the Spear of Sicarius costs as much as a computer. Look at all the things that a computer can do that the Spear of Sicarius can't. Compare all the raw materials, development costs, manufactoring and assembly that goes into each of the two products, and I think it's easy to see why many Warhammer/40k players think we're being gouged.

    I work and live downtown and spend almost $200 a week on just food and immediate expenses, I don't like doing it, but really I couldn't get away with paying much less. When you live in a city where lunch is $10 for a sandwich or other fast food and a bottle of water is $2, paying $30-$50 for a box of models doesn't seem so bad.
    The price of necessities is not the point. No one can go without food. My mortgage costs $1500 a month, but I still feel it's more reasonable than paying $45-50 for a box of 5-10 plastic soldiers.
    Last edited by cttran77; 13-07-2009 at 22:49.

  13. #33

    Re: Games Workshop Pricing Feedback Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by cttran77 View Post
    Look at it this way, the Spear of Sicarius costs as much as a computer. Look at all the things that a computer can do that the Spear of Sicarius can't. Compare all the raw materials, development costs, manufactoring and assembly that goes into each of the two products, and I think it's easy to see why many Warhammer/40k players think we're being gouged.



    The price of necessities is not the point. No one can go without food. My mortgage costs $1500 a month, but I still feel it's more reasonable than paying $45-50 for a box of 5-10 plastic soldiers.
    Look at it this way. Some people pay $20,000 for a Rolex watch. That costs as much as a car. Look at all the things that a car can do that the Rolex can't. Compare all the raw materials, development costs, manufacturing and assembly that goes into each of the two products, and yet no one buying the Rolex thinks we're being gouged.


    Not to mention the cost of necessities is what drives the cost of everything else. How many sandwiches does box of models buy the workers, etc...

  14. #34
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    Re: Games Workshop Pricing Feedback Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by The Base View Post
    People online need to stop crying so much about the price of things...
    It really is an affliction of forums, the real world away from studenty keyboard commando's is very different. Personally, I think users of this forum would benifit if the editorial line was adjusted to allow critism of negative threads.

  15. #35
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    Re: Games Workshop Pricing Feedback Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by The Base View Post
    Look at it this way. Some people pay $20,000 for a Rolex watch. That costs as much as a car. Look at all the things that a car can do that the Rolex can't. Compare all the raw materials, development costs, manufacturing and assembly that goes into each of the two products, and yet no one buying the Rolex thinks we're being gouged.


    Not to mention the cost of necessities is what drives the cost of everything else. How many sandwiches does box of models buy the workers, etc...
    This guy hit the jackpot with his reply.
    Prices are very high. But some nuancing on both sides should be welcome.
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  16. #36
    Chapter Master de Selby's Avatar
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    Re: Games Workshop Pricing Feedback Thread

    I'm not in the market for a Rolex or a box of greatswords. I'm in the market for toy soldiers priced at around £150 for a 1500 to 2000 pt army, and I won't pay a premium for certain models just because the designers made them worth a lot of points (I might pay a premium for a really good sculpt).

    I buy battleforces and second hand/discount deals these days. When the apocalypse deals were on the go I bought those. When there's nothing I want at sensible prices I spend my disposable income on DVDs etc.


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  17. #37
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    Re: Games Workshop Pricing Feedback Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by The Base View Post
    Look at it this way. Some people pay $20,000 for a Rolex watch. That costs as much as a car. Look at all the things that a car can do that the Rolex can't. Compare all the raw materials, development costs, manufacturing and assembly that goes into each of the two products, and yet no one buying the Rolex thinks we're being gouged.
    That's a ridiculous argument. Any Rolex that cost that much costs that much because it's made of gold/silver and encrusted with diamonds, etc.

    You can buy a golden, diamond encrusted anything for tens of thousands of dollars. It's not the watch part that's making it expensive.

  18. #38
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    Re: Games Workshop Pricing Feedback Thread

    You know, with the Warhammer Ancient rules, you can easily hit 1500pts for £70 using Warlord games.....

  19. #39
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    Re: Games Workshop Pricing Feedback Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by parus_ater View Post
    You know, with the Warhammer Ancient rules, you can easily hit 1500pts for £70 using Warlord games.....
    I've have recently flirted with WAB. If you don't mind going a different scale, such as 1/72 which I am thinking of using, you can get an army of ancient greeks for about 25 dollars if you buy them online. The army I'm working on now is going to have 144 hoplites, 48 peltests/skirmishers, 12 light calvary, and a general all for 25.14$ plus shipping. This amounts to more than 2000 points easily with out really any upgrades.

  20. #40
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    Re: Games Workshop Pricing Feedback Thread

    It is an excellent game, it has to be said. it does hold the idiosyncracies of earlier versions of WFB.

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