Games Workshop Pricing Feedback Thread

[DarkLordBelial]

£61.50 for a box of 5 blood knights.

£61.50 for the island of blood starter set which contains two armies, a rulebook rulers, dice and other stuff.

I challenge anyone who thinks GW pricing is fine to explain this madness.

You are assuming the majority of the cost in a box is the material content - it very likely isn't.

The other possibility is that the boxed set is a loss leader in order to attract people into the hobby.

[Max Jet]

It's half term.

On Monday my wife and 2 kids went horse riding - £20 each for an hours ride - £60 total
On Wednesday they went to the cinema to see Phantom Menace in 3D. Tickets - £26.70, popcorn £4. Total £30.70
On Saturday I'm taking them fishing. Day Ticket £7 each, bait -£3.60 for maggots, 3.99 for pellets. Total £28.59

Total: £119.29 for three days entertainment and nothing to show for it.

For that I can buy a battalion, an army book and a number of additional models to pad out a small army.

I think, in comparison, the hobby as provided by GW is very cheap.

And now Lord of the Rings in 3D right next to it costs 15 pounds (assuming). You still go to the Phantom Menace? Can you hear your point falling apart?

[SunTzu]

Total: £119.29 for three days entertainment and nothing to show for it.

For that I can buy a battalion, an army book and a number of additional models to pad out a small army.

I think, in comparison, the hobby as provided by GW is very cheap.

Leaving aside quibbles about having "nothing" to show for it (quite a materialistic view; if there was really nothing to get from it you wouldn't do it), late last year I bought a Perrys Napoleonic army - 96 infantry, 35 cavalry, 3 commanding officers, 4 artillery pieces, the Blackpowder book, a can of spray undercoat, a tin of Army Painter Quickshade and a can of spray anti-shine - for approx £125.

That's at least three times as many models as you'd expect to get from GW in the battalion box you mention, of just as high quality (the Perrys also sculpt for GW as their day job), plus paints etc, for basically the same price. If we must consider only the material benefits you get for your money, we must still conclude that GW prices are extortionate, because they are so laughably out of kilter with comparable wargaming companies.

With that said, can we please accept that the time/money calculations are self-evidently ridiculous? I can buy a DVD for £15 and watch it over and over again until I die if I want to, which brings the time/money ratio somewhere close to infinity... but I'd get bored after the third time watching it, so is it meaningful? Clearly not.

[DarkLordBelial]

And now Lord of the Rings in 3D right next to it costs 15 pounds (assuming). You still go to the Phantom Menace? Can you hear your point falling apart?

Sorry, I don't understand what you are saying.

[DarkLordBelial]

Leaving aside quibbles about having "nothing" to show for it (quite a materialistic view; if there was really nothing to get from it you wouldn't do it)

Keeping the kids amused for a few hours so they don't drive you crazy

, late last year I bought a Perrys Napoleonic army - 96 infantry, 35 cavalry, 3 commanding officers, 4 artillery pieces, the Blackpowder book, a can of spray undercoat, a tin of Army Painter Quickshade and a can of spray anti-shine - for approx £125.

That's at least three times as many models as you'd expect to get from GW in the battalion box you mention, of just as high quality (the Perrys also sculpt for GW as their day job), plus paints etc, for basically the same price. If we must consider only the material benefits you get for your money, we must still conclude that GW prices are extortionate, because they are so laughably out of kilter with comparable wargaming companies.

Forgive me if I am mistaken, but do Perry Miniatures have a worldwide retail network, a print publishing arm, a monthly publication, produce an extensive range of rules - with original artwork, a yearly games event, an in house painting studio and a major film license? No. They are two blokes - as lovely as their men on horses are - I suspect their overheads are considerably less than GW.

But that wasn't my point.

With that said, can we please accept that the time/money calculations are self-evidently ridiculous? I can buy a DVD for £15 and watch it over and over again until I die if I want to, which brings the time/money ratio somewhere close to infinity... but I'd get bored after the third time watching it, so is it meaningful? Clearly not.

Indeed - I was merely pointing out, that as a hobby, it is no more expensive than many other pastimes.

[Tonny]

Keeping the kids amused for a few hours so they don't drive you crazy Forgive me if I am mistaken, but do Perry Miniatures have a worldwide retail network, a print publishing arm, a monthly publication, produce an extensive range of rules - with original artwork, a yearly games event, an in house painting studio and a major film license? No. They are two blokes - as lovely as their men on horses are - I suspect their overheads are considerably less than GW.

But that wasn't my point.

Indeed - I was merely pointing out, that as a hobby, it is no more expensive than many other pastimes.

Well said!

[EmperorNorton]

Forgive me if I am mistaken, but do Perry Miniatures have a worldwide retail network, a print publishing arm, a monthly publication, produce an extensive range of rules - with original artwork, a yearly games event, an in house painting studio and a major film license? No. They are two blokes - as lovely as their men on horses are - I suspect their overheads are considerably less than GW.

Does Black Library give away their books for free?
Is White Dwarf free?
The rules?
Do you not have to pay to enter GW's events?
So these are out as far as overheads are concerned...they should at least pay for themselves.

As for the major film license, that is definitely worked into the price. Strange, though, that until very recently the LotR minis were the cheapest option GW had to offer.

Concerning the painting studio, the Perrys show painted miniatures on their site. I guess they have to either paint those themselves or hire somebody to do it, which likely is more expensive than having it done in-house.

That leaves the worldwide retail network as an explanation for the considerable overheads. And that topic has been discussed to death.
I for one use GW stores as much as the non-existant Perry Miniatures stores and don't see why I should have to subsidize them.

[Druchii Monkey]

It's half term.

On Monday my wife and 2 kids went horse riding - £20 each for an hours ride - £60 total
On Wednesday they went to the cinema to see Phantom Menace in 3D. Tickets - £26.70, popcorn £4. Total £30.70
On Saturday I'm taking them fishing. Day Ticket £7 each, bait -£3.60 for maggots, 3.99 for pellets. Total £28.59

Total: £119.29 for three days entertainment and nothing to show for it.

For that I can buy a battalion, an army book and a number of additional models to pad out a small army.

I think, in comparison, the hobby as provided by GW is very cheap.

Just getting out and about can be expensive these days but i'm not sure the above is a fair comparison. Your £119.29 for all the activities is spread across 4 people whereas your battalion, army book etc is just you. Also you're not counting any of the hobby material costs such as paints, glues etc or the main rulebook - i think your example is underplaying the expense of the GW hobby - (p.s. if your wife is reading this over your shoulder i didn't say any of that - your hobby is an absolute bargain).

Also, i think it misses the point of the amount prices are changing by. In the UK this is something we are rightly sensitive about. Whilst salaries may not go up more than 2% a year if at all, train fares that rise by 10% each year are sorely noticed, and so when GW re-boxes and increases the price of one of it's products by 30% and this sort of change is not uncommon across their range you'll forgive me i hope for keeping a tight eye on it. Being a big GW fan and enjoying the hobby should not blind us to their price changes.

Personally, just as a matter of viewpoint, i think the half term activities you and your family have been doing are awesome. Horse riding and fishing are things some kids will never get to do. I think you'll no doubt get your money's worth on all of that.

However, whilst i also felt i got my money's worth buying 5 Cold One Knights at £15.50 and £18.50 is still tolerable, i do not feel 5 space marine terminators at £28 are value for money - i'm sorry, for me that's a rip off - got to balance that against Assault on Black Reach at £61.50, now i think that holds it's ground on value for money - understandably as an introductory set this is well priced but for me it does not excuse £28 for five terminator models elsewhere.

Also i estimate the startup cost of this hobby as easily nearer £225 than £120, and that's just for starters.
Rule book (£45), army book (£20), battalion box (£60), measuring tape and dice (£10), 30 paints (£70), glues (£10), brushes (£10).

[Torga_DW]

£61.50 for a box of 5 blood knights.

£61.50 for the island of blood starter set which contains two armies, a rulebook rulers, dice and other stuff.

I challenge anyone who thinks GW pricing is fine to explain this madness.

I sir, accept your challenge! australian price of blood knights: 112 british pounds

[DarkLordBelial]

Does Black Library give away their books for free?
Is White Dwarf free?
The rules?
Do you not have to pay to enter GW's events?
So these are out as far as overheads are concerned...they should at least pay for themselves.

As for the major film license, that is definitely worked into the price. Strange, though, that until very recently the LotR minis were the cheapest option GW had to offer.

Concerning the painting studio, the Perrys show painted miniatures on their site. I guess they have to either paint those themselves or hire somebody to do it, which likely is more expensive than having it done in-house.

That leaves the worldwide retail network as an explanation for the considerable overheads. And that topic has been discussed to death.
I for one use GW stores as much as the non-existant Perry Miniatures stores and don't see why I should have to subsidize them.

Let's be honest - at over three hundreds pages every aspect of GWs pricing has been discussed to death in this thread

GW posted pre-tax profits of £15.4M on revenue of £123M for 2011. That's hardly a company that is ripping people off.

[DarkLordBelial]

Just getting out and about can be expensive these days but i'm not sure the above is a fair comparison. Your £119.29 for all the activities is spread across 4 people whereas your battalion, army book etc is just you. Also you're not counting any of the hobby material costs such as paints, glues etc or the main rulebook - i think your example is underplaying the expense of the GW hobby - (p.s. if your wife is reading this over your shoulder i didn't say any of that - your hobby is an absolute bargain).

3 people actually but I take your point What I failed to state though is that these were activities in addition to their normal hobbies - Wife, 10 quid a week for the gym, Son 20 quid a week for horse riding and daughter 29 quid a week for Drama lessons. I've no idea how much their piano and guitar lessons cost a week - the wife pays them Over a year that's a lot of money - certainly more than we spend on on our warhammer toys (the whole family is Warhammer mad).

Also, i think it misses the point of the amount prices are changing by. In the UK this is something we are rightly sensitive about. Whilst salaries may not go up more than 2% a year if at all, train fares that rise by 10% each year are sorely noticed, and so when GW re-boxes and increases the price of one of it's products by 30% and this sort of change is not uncommon across their range you'll forgive me i hope for keeping a tight eye on it. Being a big GW fan and enjoying the hobby should not blind us to their price changes.

No argument from me here - but it's worth pointing out that everything seems expensive these days

Personally, just as a matter of viewpoint, i think the half term activities you and your family have been doing are awesome. Horse riding and fishing are things some kids will never get to do. I think you'll no doubt get your money's worth on all of that.

I agree, kids are so damn expensive though!

However, whilst i also felt i got my money's worth buying 5 Cold One Knights at £15.50 and £18.50 is still tolerable, i do not feel 5 space marine terminators at £28 are value for money - i'm sorry, for me that's a rip off - got to balance that against Assault on Black Reach at £61.50, now i think that holds it's ground on value for money - understandably as an introductory set this is well priced but for me it does not excuse £28 for five terminator models elsewhere.

Also i estimate the startup cost of this hobby as easily nearer £225 than £120, and that's just for starters.
Rule book (£45), army book (£20), battalion box (£60), measuring tape and dice (£10), 30 paints (£70), glues (£10), brushes (£10).

It doesn't have to be that expensive though. I have here my receipt from 2009 when we first started our habit. £255 for four battalions and four rule books. We had already bought battle for skull pass - think it was about 45 quid at the time. To this day we have added very little to the armies, and where we have it is usually second hand for peanuts from ebay, or discount retailers, and still have fun playing with them. While I accept that prices will indeed have risen in the intervening years it is certainly possible to play the game without spending oodles of cash.

Compare that to my fishing pole that cost £500 and snapped when I stood on it 12 months later

[iamfanboy]

Keeping the kids amused for a few hours so they don't drive you crazy Forgive me if I am mistaken, but do Perry Miniatures have a worldwide retail network, a print publishing arm, a monthly publication, produce an extensive range of rules - with original artwork, a yearly games event, an in house painting studio and a major film license? No. They are two blokes - as lovely as their men on horses are - I suspect their overheads are considerably less than GW.

But that wasn't my point.

Indeed - I was merely pointing out, that as a hobby, it is no more expensive than many other pastimes.

But unlike other miniature hobby companies, Games Workshop is shockingly expensive. If you wanted to compare it to EXPENSIVE hobbies, why to not building a DeLorean out of spare parts, or flying a P-52 Mustang, or collecting Ferraris?

Are you familiar with the term 'economy of scale'?

Smaller, home-grown companies should be, and historically always are, more expensive than a company that has its entire manufacture process under its own roof.

Why is Games Workshop the only exception? Answers later in post.

Seriously, go look at other miniature companies for a little while. Compare Games Workshop to Reaper Miniatures, Malifaux, Perry Miniatures, Mantic Games, or so many other companies.

to be fair, there ARE other companies out there who charge just as much (or more!) per miniature that GW does, but there's one key difference:

You need far fewer of Privateer Press' or Iron Wind Metals' miniatures to have a full army in their respective games.


Anyway, back to economy of scale. After careful analysis, the only rational reason for GW's high prices is their retail chain. You're paying those high prices to subsidize their retail stores. That may be fine for folks in Britain, where that's supposedly the only option (but see next paragraph!), but for folks in Australia, America, or Canada, where most GW players haven't even seen an official retail store it's robbery.

Even in GW's heartland, non-GW stores are starting to outnumber their retail outlets. I did a count of GW stores to 'official GW affiliates' and in London, non-GW stores outnumber GW stores five to one. Even ignoring obvious non-gaming stores and only counting geekly names like Dungeoneer Central, non-GW stores in London outnumber their official counterparts two to one!

[Shimmergloom]

It never ceases to amaze me that people compare warhammer to yachting or horseback riding or golf.

Cause yeah, it's exactly like that.

You might as well compare the price of a McDonald's hamburger to a Kobe Steak. But wait you don't. You compare it to McDonald's competitors. I guarantee you that if a Big Mac increased in price 30% per year, while Burger King, Wendy's, etc all stayed within inflation, that no one would be defending the price increase, but would realize they were being ripped off.

[Sgt John Keel]

GW posted pre-tax profits of £15.4M on revenue of £123M for 2011. That's hardly a company that is ripping people off.

Non sequitur. Also, no one has a problem with GW making a profit. I think you can find many people here with the belief that GW could indeed make more money with another pricing and marketing strategy.

[New Cult King]

I keep going to make a comment, but iamfanboy hits the nail on the head every time.

The other problem I have with GW minis is the time spent cleaning the plastic ones. Honestly, if I'm going to be paying that much for a box of 5 toy soldiers (Scouts in this case) I really don't think I should have to spend several hours cleaning off mould lines and mould slips. For the same price as 5 Grey Knights, I can get 5-6 metal Infinity minis that have maybe 2 thin, faint mould lines between them, and take less than a 10th of the time to clean.

GW keep saying they make a premium product, but it's not. Not by a long shot.

[TheMav80]

I can go out to see a movie and buy snacks for cheaper than most GW boxes. That is paying for just myself. I took my nephew to see Phantom Menace in 3D and I think it cost me close to $40. What's that? One Tactical Squad?

Let's compare it to the same hobby though. Look at the pricing for Mantic's Corporation models compared to Imperial Guardsmen. It blows my mind.

[New Cult King]

Yeah I can get a Warmachine starter set for AU$50, or a Firestorm Armada fleet for the same amount, or an Infinity starter for around $45. All playable forces.

A single Tac squad here is $62.

In future, if someone feels the need to compare GW to hobbies, please try and compare like to like.

[iamfanboy]

Yeah I can get a Warmachine starter set for AU$50, or a Firestorm Armada fleet for the same amount, or an Infinity starter for around $45. All playable forces.

A single Tac squad here is $62.

In future, if someone feels the need to compare GW to hobbies, please try and compare like to like.

But that wouldn't let the GW defenders strawman your argument and walk away from their keyboards satisfied....

You DO see the problem with that, do you not?

[Lord Dan]

In future, if someone feels the need to compare GW to hobbies, please try and compare like to like.

Seriously! I personally enjoy skeet shooting with antique firearms while suspended from helicopters. Usually I fire pure silver rounds and try to hit various targets (mostly assorted famous artwork) which I have shot from a cannon into the air off of a battleship I rent for the occasion. Comparatively I don't find GW prices bad at all.

[Shimmergloom]

Usually when I take Victoria's Secret models out to dinner and a movie and 7 day trip to "insert tropical paradise here" it costs me 10's of thousands of dollars, compared to that, GW is cheap and a great bargain!