artillery is a great counter to jump jets.
-"Now you see me" *BLAM BLAM BLAM* "now you don't"
-"Shas-o, what's that whistling sou-"*BOOM*
artillery is a great counter to jump jets.
-"Now you see me" *BLAM BLAM BLAM* "now you don't"
-"Shas-o, what's that whistling sou-"*BOOM*
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Originally Posted by Bunnahabhain
lol dude thats epic
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Of course you could be really mean like me, and give those vets Demolitions to go with their triple melta.... so you have 3X melta and a Demo Charge for the Sg's face.
Yeah, Artillery is Fantastic at shredding Suits. Since the new dex, I've got a perfect W/L versus Tau right now. (Now you watch I'll lose my next game v tau) JSJ provides -nothing- good for Tau versus a guard list who has Artillery stashed away. Sure I'll lose something to their shooting right after that though the Suits go down.
I also like to use Devil Dogs to go Suit Hunting. Instant Death, for the win. Though that's only when I've run out of vehicles to pop.
Last edited by Captain Micha; 08-09-2009 at 16:01.
I do love artillery - I've been using a Basilisk for ages. Granted, with all of the new shiny options that will probably be swapped out with something else, but its always been a star performer for me.
That being said, I think there's a few drawbacks to artillery.
1. As more and more people encounter them, more and more people will begin to expect them when playing guard, and will know how to counter them. I find that when my Basilisk is taken seriously, it still performs well, but not as much as when people have lists with nothing to counter it. This may be obvious (duh, people know what it can do so they play better against it), but some of the recent favor for artillery may be partially stemming from people's inexperience with it, rather then its superiority against traditional tanks.
2. Counters to artillery usually work. If someone deep strikes, outflanks, moves fast, or generally can see / touch your artillery, it dies. They have tissue paper armor, and good players will hit artillery hard. This usually means artillery batteries don't work as well on paper as people would like - one deep striking unit can wipe out the whole battery in one go.
3. Artillery units are large. You can hide 2, maybe 3 - but if you overload on it, you won't be able to hide it all. See point #2.
That being said, I like 1 - 2 pieces of artillery in any of my lists. I can usually find enough terrain or blocking vehicles to keep them safe, and they provide a constant threat to enemy units. The psychological effect on other players is devastating as well - most people can handle a LRBT firing at them because they can shoot back at it. You can't say the same about a Collosus (or other MEQ killer).
As far as their weaknesses go, I find that you can be fairly devious and exploit them to your advantage - particularly in splitting an enemy's force. Since most units that can deal with artillery quickly are very expensive (deep strikers, fast moving bike squads, etc.), one of my favorites is (terrain permitting) to place it behind a large piece such that the enemy cannot see it from their deployment zone, but place it far from my main force. This requires them to either send a unit to deal with it - taking usually 2+ turns - and leaving that unit in an obscure location for the rest of the game, or throwing a similarly expensive unit at it, also leaving them out of the rest of the game.
The other option is to have a melta / plasma squad situated such that, when the artillery dies, the attacking squad is completely annihilated by the return fire. I usually find trading a Basilisk - who got 2 - 3 shots off already - for a Terminator squad worthwhile.
Last edited by mcjordan; 08-09-2009 at 17:19.
Some pretty good tactics there mcjordan.
another nasty trick I'll do is nestle mine amongst Difficult or Dangerous Terrain.
It can slow down assaulters, still hide the Artillery and as a bonus units might get wounded just trying to assault the Piece depending on the terrain!
Couple that with the Place a "Suicide" squad nearby (or god forbid a Defensive Marbo...) and you really can have something nasty going on.
Although artillery is better then I once thought, as far as durability goes they are open top chimeras, a weakness I have a hard time accepting.
Last edited by CKO; 08-09-2009 at 17:58.
Phil Kelly is Tzeentch!
Take a Manticore. Closed top. Direct fire ability. HF for weak outflankers. Doesn't take up as much space as 2 Griffons or the like, and still delivers 2 templates indirectly if it wants to.
Have you ever found the 4 turn limit to be a problem?
The more I've been tinkering with my lists, the more I've been leaning towards the Manticore as well - ironically, its been finding a place in my infantry heavy, mixed, and mech list variants.
Not really, to be honest. Game's decided by turn 3 or so anyway.
Yeah, the Manticore is a beast really. The 4 shot "limit" really doesn't apply since generally after turn 4 my Artillery starts going down or has been taken out already. (and yet Artillery is -still- worth it even with only 3 turns of use) And the game is largely decided by turn 4 anyway.
Though I'm trying to decide presently in my next game.. One Manticore, or Two Griffons.
Well, will you need to hit heavy armour or multi-wound infantry?
I'm not really sure actually. It's pretty rare that I know who my next opponent will be.
I can easily see the usefulness (read awesome) of a str 10 D3 Large Blasts artillery piece.
That being said the sheer accuracy (read due to how my luck usually goes with Blast based weapons) of the Griffons though it is quite likely I might not ever miss with them in my next game.
Generally my opponents field a mix of Light to medium Armor, and Heavy Infantry.
Keep in mind Barrage weapons always hit side armour. I destroyed countless Rhino and Chimera chassis with the humble S6, roll 2d6 and takes the highest Griffon. It may come in handy if you field two of them.
The 4 turn limit is not at all a problem. Like others have said, by turn 4 your artillery is probably dead or dying, or the enemy numbers are thinned out to the point that you have a hard time hitting anything, or the enemy has come close enough that you endanger your own troops by firing.
Being able to front-load the damage with D3 shots is far more useful than unlimited turns of shooting. If the manticore is still alive after 4 turns, I start using it for tank shock or using the heavy flamer to scorch enemy survivors.
But for 160pts, shouldnt the manticore be compared to russes instead of the cheaper artillery, as cost is one of the reasons you would take artillery.
Phil Kelly is Tzeentch!
15 points and they are a Chimera with a much better gun. Course they pay for it. I wish that the indirect fire option for Basilisks was still optional.
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@CKO....As you well know cost is relative to the effect the unit can do....with an average of 2 ordnance blast templates a shot, you double (or triple) your chances of doing something with that shot, with the advantage of indirect fire with the target in LOS as I have described above...anyway, as you probably field multiple russes as well as some chimeras, it is good synergy to drop 1 and get a manticore as your army fulfills the condition of having armor target saturation for the opponent, so there is a good chance the manticore can survive. The manticore is not open topped too, which is an advantage over the artillery vehicles....
Try it..can't hurt....just don't be aggressive with it like a russ...
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The worst opponents for a Manticore, in my view. The Manticore excels against very heavy vehicles, and large hordes of light infantry. Also good against squadrons of very light vehicles. That said, of course there's nothing wrong with using a D3 S10 missile to blow up a Rhino, it just seems a little overkill.
Against those opponents you mention, I would not favour artillery. Several can do nice work, but on the whole I think Leman Russ are far better suited against heavy infantry. If you want a artillery(ish) vehicle, a Hydra would probably be more appropriate.
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Or a squadron of 3 griffons.
Well I already have Two Russes
So your vote is the Manticore?
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