Tactica Imperial Guard

[CKO]

I am not advertising it, I dont get it neither but a few guys swear by them, but like cook said it is one expensive anti-tank tank.

[Lord Cook]

Well I already have Two Russes

So your vote is the Manticore?

Well as I said, your typical opponents are some of the Manticore's worst potential targets. It isn't a good option against lots of heavy infantry with 3+ saves. So no, my vote is not for the Manticore in this particular case.

Folks just a short question. Why is nearly everyone advertising the Manticore if it suffers from the multiple barrage rule (multiple barrage = roll to hit for 1st template and place it, then roll additional templates and place them adjacent to the first at a random direction)?

Because firstly, the Manticore would never use the multiple barrage rules. It is one weapon firing multiple shots, not multiple weapons firing one shot. One could argue that the Eldar FAQ provides a precedent to the contrary (Dark Reaper Exarchs), but unless we want to start down the path of madness that precedents lead us to, we stick with the Guard FAQ which says nothing.

Secondly, even if we were using the multiple barrage rules, if you roll a hit you may place the second blast marker anywhere, including directly on top of the first blast marker. It only needs to be adjacent to the previous marker if it scatters, so three large blast markers firing by a multiple barrage can all hit the same model, for example. Particularly handy for Griffons against small units, as their re-roll for scatter allows them to stack an entire squadron's worth of blast markers on top of a single combat squad of Marines.

[RCgothic]

Not a bad idea RC. Maybe ill take an extra infantry squad w/ commissar. Problem is that many of these units get ridiculous amounts of attacks. Many of my opponents are space wolves who get counter attack and can burn through a 10 man squad w/ ease. Maybe I'll beef it up to a 20 man squad w/ flamers and commissar and use it as a mobile screen/forlorn hope.

Ok, if you're against space wolves, you don't want your units to survive the first turn of combat. (How are they surviving anyway?)

If, by some miracle, your squad HAS somehow survived the space wolf charge, then it's time to send in the Commissar and infantry squad, as you don't want him to be free to act in your turn.

Counter Attack doesn't work if you're already locked in combat.

Take a leadership test with a re-roll at unmodified leadership 9 and hang around for another turn. Then have the Commissar killed off, and make sure your unit runs like girl scouts. Oops, the wolves are now in a position to get filled so full of ordnance they'll think they're a weapons depot.

The principle is that the enemy should be locked in combat in his turn, and a sitting duck in yours. Failing that, a full squad of 10 rough riders do 8.75 power weapon wounds on average at I5.

[CKO]

Rough Riders the most expensive 8.75 wonds you could ever buy.

[RCgothic]

I hope you mean £££ wise, because it would take 6 lightning claw terminators to do more wounds than that, more than twice as much points wise.

[CKO]

I hope you mean £££ wise, because it would take 6 lightning claw terminators to do more wounds than that, more than twice as much points wise.

For once I am talking about $.

[Shas'o Brightsword]

so you guys are saying rr are the IG cc unit in the game why?

[RCgothic]

Rough Riders will, on average, kill just under six lighting claw/power fist terminators on the charge. The Terminators cost twice as much. They'll also kill just under nine power armoured marines on average. That's why they're good.

Rough Riders should not be used against hordes. They don't do enough wounds for that, even though they ignore armour.

[Shas'o Brightsword]

WOW they sound REALLY good i need some! but.... the models suck!

[freddieyu]

most people convert them, usually from plastic cold ones, or (like me) non-GW motorbikes.....

[Shas'o Brightsword]

i dont like the cold one look at all no offense!

[Rhaivaen]

i dont like the cold one look at all no offense!

Neither do i, and i was trying to show you a nice example of what i am busy with RR-wise, but the site is not helping me upload some nice piccies, sigh, this site does that to often. (and sorry to derail from any tactical discussion.)

[Sekhmet]

What do you guys think of Vanquishers?

[chinnfrequent]

i dont like the cold one look at all no offense!

If you use Cadians, Wood Elf Glade Runner bits fit the Cadian look fairly well and have arms holding spears.

[Juggalo]

You can also throw a priest in with Straken or the Penal Legion, which makes them even better, plus get an eviscerator to add!

Foolish nonsense based on pure conjecture and/or wishful thinking.. The re-roll on attacks is not worth 60 points, especially in a small unit where it will be very easy to single out the priest and kill his T3 1 wound ass before he even gets to swing. If you're going to use priests at all, take them at base cost and stick them in a big squad where they can cower in the back away from the fighting.

[mcjordan]

WOW they sound REALLY good i need some! but.... the models suck!

Slow down there...

Rough riders have their place, and yes - I own 10 (with a banner bearer no less!) - and used to use them back in 3rd edition - and really, they haven't changed a whole heck of a lot.

Be aware of their drawbacks before you go spending untold sums of cash and time in acquiring and converting these little fellas:

1. They are a one shot weapon. After their charge, you may as well forget about them. Anyone who tells you otherwise is lying about the odds.

2. They die easily. If you don't get the charge - or anything so much as glances their way before their charge - they die. Wasted opportunity.

3. They are easy to see. Even if mounted on cold ones, they aren't exactly the smallest model in the world. With TLOS, even when you have some tanks / terrain to hide behind, 5 - 10 T3, inv 4+ sv models aren't going to last long against bolter fire, much less anything heavier. And, when you're counting on them taking out said Terminators, TEQ, MEQ, etc. - you usually can't afford to have them die.

4. TH / SS termies - which are the real nut to crack in TEQ units these days - still get a 3+ save. Just saying - Rough Riders aren't a panacea to all things tough and hard.

Its been my experience that people who use Rough Riders either have a lot of them, and can afford to lose a squad or two during a battle (which obviously takes away from other valuable FA choices), use them as a "surprise" unit - coming on the board from reserves and hitting the enemy, or are just darn good with them. Some people really are better players than others - I long ago came to the conclusion that I wasn't a good enough general to get my money's worth out of them and needed a more reliable counterattack. But to each their own.

Just don't buy 10 of them, put them together, and walk away thinking your TEQ problems are over. They aren't. They've only just begun

[CKO]

What do you guys think of Vanquishers?

"Hey, these guys dont think rough riders suck, see what they think about another useless unit."

"CKO everyone is not you, some people play non-tourney games so chillout"

[Juggalo]

The rejoinder to that is that if you're playing friendly for-fun games, then you shouldn't be asking for tactical advice anyway, since effectiveness is irrelevant in those cases. It's really irritating when someone asks for advice on what works and what doesn't, is given a straight answer, and then responds with whines like, "I don't wanna use that, that's cheesy, I am playing for fun, why you hatin' on my garbage list?" Then why did you open your mouth in the first place? Stop wasting bandwidth. :P

[The Apathetic Despot]

I am halfway done with 6 RR, mixing empire and imperial guard bits to create a nice new cavalry squad should not take you so long really?

It can take a very long time indeed if you're stubborn enough . My roughriders were the very first major conversion project I attempted, starting over a year ago (working on and off), and I'm only now coming to the point where I'm putting the finishing touches on them. But a squad of 10 Forge World upgraded Cadians on kitbashed motorcycles? Totally worth it .

[Scythe]

The rejoinder to that is that if you're playing friendly for-fun games, then you shouldn't be asking for tactical advice anyway, since effectiveness is irrelevant in those cases. It's really irritating when someone asks for advice on what works and what doesn't, is given a straight answer, and then responds with whines like, "I don't wanna use that, that's cheesy, I am playing for fun, why you hatin' on my garbage list?" Then why did you open your mouth in the first place? Stop wasting bandwidth. :P

Thing is, there is a difference between tactical advice and advice on an army list. The two are seperate things. That you don't play a cookie-cutter mech list with 6 melta veteran squads (exagerating, but bear with me) and field a (*gasp*) leman russ vanquisher doesn't mean you cannot ask for tactical advice on how to get the most out of this unit in game. The remark 'vanquishers suck, take x/y instead' is not tactical advice, it is an army list suggestion. On the other hand, 'keep vanquishers at board edge, support them with x, use them at y range for optimal results, and seek out targets z' can be usefull tactical advice, regardless on wether a vanquisher should appear in a GT winner list or not.

Please, do not take this as a personal attack, but for me it is really irritating when people refuse to see the difference between army list selection and in game tactics / uses. Sure, the two are connected, but that doesn't mean you cannot get tactical advice on a sub-optimal army list, or army-list advice on a tactical idea. Most people are limited in what they have available model wise to use, or don't want to use certain units for thematic reasons, but that doesn't mean they cannot ask advice on how to get the most out of their 'handicapped' army list.

[/rant]