Tactica Imperial Guard

[Juggalo]

Thats just it, it cant switch over because it stops working after 4 turns.

This doesn't matter in the least bit. Very rarely will you have the target saturation (or possibly even be alive) after four turns to make large templates particularly worthwhile. The variable amount of pie plates more than compensates for this, because it allows you to FRONTLOAD that damage, rather than spreading it out over more turns, letting you take out more enemy elements in one fell swoop rather than trading blows back and forth. In the course of those 4 turns, on average the Manticore will have fired 8-turns worth of ordnance. After that, it has a heavy flamer to pick out survivors/diminished squads, it's another tank to provide cover to your scoring troops, or at the very least can contest objectives.

[infernus31]

The Manticore is a nice piece of kit, hidden behind the russes who I use to take out any infantry if Im targetting a tranport vehicle - it works especially well when the Leman russ executioner is the one firing at the infantry

[Volandum]

Why dwell on the "up to 3" instead of just saying "average of 2"?

[freddieyu]

It's my training in marketing (as well as the optimist in me)...always highlight what a product can do best...and at its best the manticore can fire 3 pie plates....(of course, the reverse is also true)...

So more appropriately, we can say it can fire up to 3 shots, with 2 on the average....but really rolling a 5 or 6 for the number of shots still gives me cheap thrills whenever I fire a manticore rocket...

[Griffin]

How good is the Vendetta against monstrous creatures ? Worth considering or should I rather look for a mobile anti nasty fix somewhere else ?

[isaac]

3 TL S9 Ap2 weapons canr hunt light to medium vehicles and MCs. Tank plasma guns are also good btw.

[Volandum]

The Vendetta is good, it's your best choice against Wraithlords and Carnifexes, and does a good job against the rest.

[Captain Micha]

Thats just it, it cant switch over because it stops working after 4 turns.

If your artillery is alive after 4 turns your opponent is incredibly stupid.

Typically mine goes 2 turns on one duty and 2 on another. The thing about the Manticore is it's so good at it's two roles it doesn't have to spend very long doing either. It's also incredibly capable of frontloading excessive amounts of damage. It works so damn well on vehicles in a way that a Triple Broadside team can only dream of. It can put out firepower equal to what they do vs Armor, and then one ups it by being Ordnance. If I were still playing tau enough times to mention them in my sig anymore, I'd be crying with envy over the sheer power that a Manticore packs compared to the Tau lists' BEST Anti Tank which is a Triplet of Broadsides.

Let alone the fact that it actually -frees up- points. One Manticore is worth Two of the other Artillery pieces on average. And it is capable of firing directly. Something the other two Artillery pieces that are good enough to be a tournament piece can't do at all. (The Colossus and the Griffon)

Most games I play are ending on turn 5 and when they go onto to turn 6 (if they do) it's more like a token turn because most of the game has already been decided.

[Glocknal]

In an upcoming game against necrons Im thinking of taking an medusa with camo netting and deploying in cover to help my demolisher with monolith duty. What do you guys think of its survivability with this load out?

[Volandum]

Manticores are your choice for Monolith killing. Consider taking the closed top, it makes you much much more resilient against glancing hits, which the Necrons will deal out in quantity.

[Glocknal]

Yeah I was just thinking that, but I'd figured the medusa with its AP 2 would be better for forcing phase out with its AP2. But indirect fire is a whole lot more survivable. prolyl cheaper too.

[CKO]

Why dwell on the "up to 3" instead of just saying "average of 2"?

Because you have a 33% chance of shooting 1 shot. The manticore has to many variables for me. You dont know how many shots your going to get, your opponent dictates what role its going to play, and it only last for four turns all of which take away from its value.

One problem that the manticore creates when creating a list, is you dont know if you need more or less anti-infantry or do I need more anti-tank? You dont know what to add on because your opponent dictates what the manticore is going to be used for. Basically you spend 160 out of 1500 pts on a tank that can play the anti-tank role well and the anti-infantry ok, but what ultimately determines the value of the manticore is its targets.

There is a 33% chance that you should have taken something cheaper everytime you fire the manticore. Then its still ap 4, so it doesnt pierce marines and I dont buy the volume of saves arguement because it is not a griffon, which fires very accurately. Once more the value of the tank is determined by its targets.

Do you know what I would do if someone brought a manticore? I would ignore it, it only last four turns and its fire potential varies. It doesnt have ap1 or ap3, so its not some super anti-tank destroyer, and meqs get their save.


Its a Jack of all trades, master of none type of tank. That doesnt make it bad, its just that it has an undefine role which makes it hard to compete against the heavy support choice that perform their jobs extremely well.

[Volandum]

Er, you go ahead and ignore it. I'll gladly let my Chimeras and Vendettas draw fire while I level your armour.

I don't get you. Versatility is great when creating a list - I mean, if you take Vendettas they're going to be forced into the anti-infantry role against horde Orks, and if you take Colossus and find yourself using them to try to hurt Valkyries you're going to be stuffed.

The only HS choice which in my opinion competes with the Manticore is the Griffon.

[Glocknal]

Because you have a 33% chance of shooting 1 shot. The manticore has to many variables for me. You dont know how many shots your going to get, your opponent dictates what role its going to play, and it only last for four turns all of which take away from its value.

One problem that the manticore creates when creating a list, is you dont know if you need more or less anti-infantry or do I need more anti-tank? You dont know what to add on because your opponent dictates what the manticore is going to be used for. Basically you spend 160 out of 1500 pts on a tank that can play the anti-tank role well and the anti-infantry ok, but what ultimately determines the value of the manticore is its targets.

There is a 33% chance that you should have taken something cheaper everytime you fire the manticore. Then its still ap 4, so it doesnt pierce marines and I dont buy the volume of saves arguement because it is not a griffon, which fires very accurately. Once more the value of the tank is determined by its targets.

Do you know what I would do if someone brought a manticore? I would ignore it, it only last four turns and its fire potential varies. It doesnt have ap1 or ap3, so its not some super anti-tank destroyer, and meqs get their save.


Its a Jack of all trades, master of none type of tank. That doesnt make it bad, its just that it has an undefine role which makes it hard to compete against the heavy support choice that perform their jobs extremely well.

S10 weapons are hardly a master of none. S10 is the best anti-vehicle weapon outside of melta. Its AP4 is no slouch, effective against nearly everything outside of powerarmor. Even against MEQs, put enough wounds on a unit and they'll make your enemy worry that he'll lose his characters to instant death.

It had ridiculous range, indirect fire, its closed top and has av12 side armor.

With an average of 8 shots per game it is nearly as good as two Griffons, with better range, survivability, and strength. Does it replace all arty; no. Its more expensive and less accurate than a Griffon, doesn't ignore area cover like a Colossus, or as deadly as a Medusa.

When you consider that in many cases moving or a round of popping smoke is useful to increase it survivability, four shots is hardly a draw back.

Its one of the best units in the IG arsenal, plain and simple.

[Volandum]

Sorry, the Manticore only has AV10 side armour.

[Badger[Fr]]

and has av12 side armor.

Actually, it doesn't. The Deathstrike Missile is the only artillery vehicle with side Av12.

One problem that the manticore creates when creating a list, is you dont know if you need more or less anti-infantry or do I need more anti-tank? You dont know what to add on because your opponent dictates what the manticore is going to be used for.

And how is versatility a drawback?

There is a 33% chance that you should have taken something cheaper everytime you fire the manticore.

And there is a 100% chance that you should have taken something cheaper everytime time you field Griffons against a mechanized army, or Medusas against an all-infantry list. There are very few units a Manticore couldn't threaten.

[Glocknal]

Actually, it doesn't. The Deathstrike Missile is the only artillery vehicle with side Av12.

Crap your right, it is closed top though.

[CKO]

Those are the problems I have with the manticore, people only diversify because they dont know what they are doing. Also you guys are comparing it to other artillery pieces when I am comparing it to everything in the heavy support choice. If your comparing it to only artillery, then yes it is one of the best, but with its cost you have to compare it to Russes aswell.

[Juggalo]

Do you know what I would do if someone brought a manticore? I would ignore it, it only last four turns and its fire potential varies. It doesnt have ap1 or ap3, so its not some super anti-tank destroyer, and meqs get their save.

Its fire potential outclasses any other artillery piece. Go ahead and ignore it, you're just making the vehicle all the better. Unless we're talking about the colossus, AP3 is meaningless not essential with all the cover saves around. With multiple templates, the manticore can cause so many wounds, that it can easily equal an AP3 weapon (just like a flamer can often be as good as a plasma gun at killing marines). And it may not have AP1, but it has enormous range, and is very likely to penetrate AV14 (and it's very feasible to get multiple hits on the vehicle too).

Its a Jack of all trades, master of none type of tank. That doesnt make it bad, its just that it has an undefine role which makes it hard to compete against the heavy support choice that perform their jobs extremely well.

This is utter nonsense. The manticore does two things, and it does them extremely well, that's what makes it such a gem. It is excellent against high AV vehicles, and it is excellent against infantry (the more the enemy brings, the better). What are you basing your argument on? Absolutely nothing. You're just like everyone who was convinced PBSs and stormtroopers are so broken, they would end the game as we know it. Once you actually try the vehicle, and have negative results, then your opinion on the subject will actually have value.

Those are the problems I have with the manticore, people only diversify because they dont know what they are doing. Also you guys are comparing it to other artillery pieces when I am comparing it to everything in the heavy support choice. If your comparing it to only artillery, then yes it is one of the best, but with its cost you have to compare it to Russes aswell.

You want to compare it to Leman Russ battle tanks? Fine. For 160 points, your best Leman Russ is the battle tank. It has inferior performance against vehicles, it has inferior performance against infantry, and it does not have the option to fire indirectly. Instead, it has AV14/13/10.

People who diversify their lists don't know what they're doing? Really? Are you really so pompous? You strike me as a person who talks more theory and conjecture than reality and experience, and on top of that, uses cookie-cutter flavor of the month spam lists to win your games, and then switch armies once everyone is used to the (often simplistic) trick and can easily deal with you. Ixe just schooled you on this very subject in the Witchhunters thread.

[Bunnahabhain]

Juggalo, the Collussus ignores both cover and power armour...

It does have the problem of a big minimum range, and one expensive blast that can scatter uselessly. It's workable- neither useless or overpowered.