Tactica Imperial Guard

[russellmoo]

While we are wishlisting- here's hoping that the IG get to join the other races of the 40k universe and start using bikes, instead of horses- T4 guardsmen anyone?

[Formerly Wu]

Totally agreed!, but, we don't fight them the old fashioned way, we run past and stick a mine to the side, or we flank it with highly more mobile "horses"and shoot it in its ass with a piat-like weapon of off the horse's back.. not charge it with fracking lances!, we should have the choice when we were to use them, meaning, If I decide to charge the tank, I would use grenades, not those lances, then I would still have those for any anti-personel use..

This bugs me too. Being forced to use your lances on the first assault is senseless and enforces their role at the expense of tactical choices.

I appreciate that warfare in the 41st millenium is varied enough that cavalry combat is still a viable battlefield option. It would be nice if the TT rules allowed the same flexibility.

[Fithos]

To be fair it is probably kind of hard to use other weapons while you are holding those long sticks that might explode if they get jostled...

I agree with changing the movement rules(of course I also think sentinels should be able to move faster than infantry, or at least faster than a dreadnought) but as long as we are wishlisting I think it would be cool if they had a shield option with their lance. would be much more knightish and, depending on rules, might allow them to survive long enough to assault something without having to do it from the board edge.

In other news, I won my first game against newcrons today. It was pretty rough as his dang scarabs ran right trough my tank line, but Ogryns carried the day for me. Those guys have never let me down. Walked through a squad of scarabs, a squad of flayed ones, a squad of wraiths, a squad of immortals with attached special character (not sure which one. Had an ability to hit all the guys of a wound group or something and came with mind shackle scarabs) and a squad of warriors holding his second objective effectively winning me the game as my only units left at the end were them, a squad of veterans holding an objective, and a squad of penal legioniers contesting the other object he held.

[Rhaivaen]

Shields? meh, I don't care for that kind of stuff, but perhaps Carapace for the mounted units, just like the Kriegers..
having a lance tucked away is not difficult imo , but magnetic mines (plasma) that you stick to a tank side as you drive/ ride by? easy :P

but yea, horses should add something value wise, not just movement, but I agree with someone suggesting +1 T as the bikes do, or even
2 wounds.. just like 2 men on a heavy weapon base..

Note, it's not just wishlisting, its partly common sense, the games developers should read these boards and take some note as to what ideas are being spouted out here..(not just this thread, but in general)

[Treadhead_1st]

I apologise for the randomness of this post, but I just thought that I would mention I am having great success with Storm Troopers working in concert with Valkyries and Vendettas. At first I thought the pairing would be a waste (especially as I intended to transport the Storm Troopers, which wastes their Special Deployment rules), but it has worked well in-game. The Valkyries have been carrying Multiple Rocket Pods, I was playing around with Vendettas and Hellfury Missiles too, but both variants have door-gunners.

What I noticed was that the sheer amount of firepower laid out by the Skimmers often caused a large number of wounds across the Marine squad, which then meant that when I shot with my Storm Troopers, the opponent was forced to allocate the AP3-and-better shots from Hellguns and Plasma/Melta onto the Sergeant and Special/Heavy weapons, causing them to be taken out with some precision. Naturally, the dice have failed me on occasion and this hasn't worked (either not causing enough wounds with the Skimmers, or too many), or the opponent guessed my strategy and allocated the Blast hits onto the Sergeant/Specials anyway (which still isn't a bad result in-and-of itself, particularly if you cause more than 10 wounds, giving the distinct models more chances to fail to save).

+Edit+
The above is a rules-error, as pointed out below. This strategy still works on small units. You can inflict enough wounds to either force the Special Weapons to die to mass-saves with the Valkyrie/Vendetta, or thin the numbers out so that the distinct models are forced to take wounds from the Storm Troopers later in the phase.
+End+

The only thing that has stopped me using this strategy on a regular basis is that the army I was using desperately needed the triple-Lascannon of the Vendettas to take out enemy armour, thus I did not have the Blast weapons available. Also, I wasn't getting my Storm Troopers into the back-field where I wanted them, in order to disrupt units like Devastators, Long Fangs and so forth. Still, I have some ideas regarding Special Deployment Storm Troopers getting "picked-up" by the Skimmers once their missions are complete (taking out threats to my own vehicles) to either redeploy somewhere else or to save the remaining Victory Points for whatever is left of the unit (if anything - it can be a tough life!).

There's probably ways to make this work for a lot less points, but I wanted to try out the Skimmers and I love my Kasrkin. I know many other people here have decent-to-large sized collections of Storm Troopers of one stripe or another, and I thought I would share my experiences with them as I seem to have found a way to make them at least do something worthwhile on the table-top.

[omegoku]

Your wound allocation is confusing me.
Are you suggesting that you fire your Rocket Pods, Multilaser, Heavy bolters, and the Storm Troopers hellguns and then allocate wounds?
Or are you saying that the sheer fire power of the Valkyrie is thinning the marine squad enough, that the hellguns are more likely to cause wounds on important models?

The first option is illegal, so I assume it is the second.

with the knowledge that my ork playing buddy intends on getting 2 Fliers, I am considering getting a Valkyrie to go with my Vendetta.
Is there any advantage to keeping the One shot missiles over the multiple rocket pods?
I really like the idea of moving 6" and firing Multilaser, 2 Heavy Bolters and 2 Rocket pods at a unit of any infantry! Dakka Dakka Dakka!

Also, I am going to try out Rough Riders soon. Is it better to have 2 5 man squads or a single 10 man squad? Will a 5 man squad cause enough wounds to win anything?

[Treadhead_1st]

Your wound allocation is confusing me.
Are you suggesting that you fire your Rocket Pods, Multilaser, Heavy bolters, and the Storm Troopers hellguns and then allocate wounds?
Or are you saying that the sheer fire power of the Valkyrie is thinning the marine squad enough, that the hellguns are more likely to cause wounds on important models?

The first option is illegal, so I assume it is the second.

I meant the first one.

I've just gone through the rulebook, and you're right. I thought something was up when I went to the gaming group, but they all claimed that shooting was simultaneous so all weapons (from multiple squads) had to hit/wound, then the player took all their saves in one bunch. They told me it was how all the tournament run to speed up the gameplay (and they do love Tournament rules, as I can't take any of the Forge World units that I think are interesting, such as the Repressors for my Sisters of Battle or Vultures/Thunderbolts/Russ Variants in my Guard armies). I thought it was odd, and it was a total pain to take out mixed Terminator units with some Storm Shields, or Thunderwolf Cavalry similarly equipped, or Nob Biker units with completely distinct models, and so-on.

This is certainly less effective than I thought then, but it still serves its purpose on small units - either already depleted by other firepower, or that naturally come in small unit-sizes (Long Fangs in particular) - but then the problem of over-wounding becomes much greater.

with the knowledge that my ork playing buddy intends on getting 2 Fliers, I am considering getting a Valkyrie to go with my Vendetta.
Is there any advantage to keeping the One shot missiles over the multiple rocket pods?
I really like the idea of moving 6" and firing Multilaser, 2 Heavy Bolters and 2 Rocket pods at a unit of any infantry! Dakka Dakka Dakka!

None. The problem with the missiles on the Valkyrie is that they are Ordnance, so you can only ever fire one (and no other weapons) a turn. I did have some small success with a maximised squadron of Hellfire Missile Valkyries (running that many means you need to keep them cheap) as 3 missiles hitting a tank did do damage. If they were merely one-shot Str8 weapons that had the Armour Penetration rules as if they were Ordnance they might be useful (a lone Valkyrie firing 2 of them at a tank's side armour should do some damage, a squadron of them would be murderous - particularly to other squadrons!), but alas they are not. Hell, if they were Blast weapons they would still be a serious contender, and would force some serious list considerations - do you want the MRPs that can fire more than once, or do you want a pair of mobile Battle Cannon shells, or do you want Lascannons for hunting tank armour - all would have a viable niche - but again, they aren't. They suffer all the drawbacks of being an Ordnance weapon, with practically none of the benefits, and are just somewhat daft on a Fast Vehicle.

However, the Multiple Rocket Pods are excellent, if a little pricey, because you can fire loads of weapons at infantry! Even when moving quite fast (to gain some protection from combat and retaliatory fire) you can lay out with the Pods and the Multilaser, which isn't too shabby.

Also, I am going to try out Rough Riders soon. Is it better to have 2 5 man squads or a single 10 man squad? Will a 5 man squad cause enough wounds to win anything?

In my experience 2x5 can work - the enemy has to dedicate 2 different units to take them out, rather than one (though it is likely they'd be firing 2 units at the single unit to take them all out anyway), and if you do need to take on a unit that 5 can't handle, you can always charge both units in together. You get the benefit of an extra attack from the second Sergeant as well. The major downside is that they only need to lose a couple of men to start taking risky Morale checks, which isn't too tricky, whilst the 10-man unit is more resilient in this regard. 5 are limited in their attack power - 11 attacks on the charge, hitting Marines on 4s, wounding on 3s = 3.7 wounds (rounded). So 2 units (charging together, at full strength) will kill 7.3 Marines. 10 charging will kill 7.

To be honest, I think it depends on how many Fast Attack slots you've got available. I typically feel that the more units the better, but at the same time the more models in those units the better (so I'd prefer 2 units of 6/7/8 over 1 unit of 10, had you the points and the FOC slots available to do so). If choosing between 2 units of 5 and 1 unit of 10, I'd take the 10-strong unit.

[Formerly Wu]

Is there any advantage to keeping the One shot missiles over the multiple rocket pods?
I really like the idea of moving 6" and firing Multilaser, 2 Heavy Bolters and 2 Rocket pods at a unit of any infantry! Dakka Dakka Dakka!

They're a considerably cheaper, which makes them more disposable and lets you fit more in the list. An MRP Valk is best played as a floating anti-horde gunship as long as possible, while a standard Valk can be used as a more in-your-face delivery system. MRPs also have the nasty habit of scattering onto the troops who just disembarked, at least in my experience.

Otherwise, no. Hellfires are desparation weapons at best. Given how many appear on FW flyers- often at a considerable point cost!- I wonder if 6E flyers have a different relationship to Ordnance weapons. But that's just speculation.

[Rhaivaen]

Big note on R.R. Sgt's
They swap their laspistol for powersword, NOT their lance.
So first turn they can use their lance, and for (if there is any) second round of combat he has a power weapon!

[Commissar Merces]

I know Wu is looking forward to this, but is anyone else really looking forward to having dog fights with Ork players high above the battle field? Very excited.

Glad I invested in 3 hydras, but now I am considering another 3.

[Rhaivaen]

I would be in for a flyer or so if this gets to be on sale , other then that, more flak!

[Commissar Merces]

What and where is that? How do I get one?

[Rhaivaen]

Thats item is called an Imperial "Avenger", not for sale yet, preview so to say at forgeworld open day.

[CutThroatRazor]

I have been playing this game for years. I was in the Army so I have always wanted to build an IG army. However, I always find a reason not to. I want to change that and begin working on one right away. I have one question though. I dont think IG can do tank companies anymore but with the current codex (that I will be getting very soon), I believe you can field a a good amount of them on the board. Is a tank heavy list fun? Is it competitive? Would someone mind telling me what one would look like? Im thinking at least 9 tanks.

Sorry for all the questions. I have been in Marine and Necron world for the past 10 years. I am tired of all the marine on marine tournaments. Any and all help would be appreciated. Thanks!

[Bunnahabhain]

You can do a decent tank heavy list form the codex very easily, and it is perfectly viable.

Heavy support. Choice of 3
Pair of Hydras ( heavy AA tanks)
Pair of Griffons ( heavy mortar carriers)
Manticore ( MLRS on steroids)
Leman russ MBT ( Battle cannon, demolisher, executioner and exterminator all decent)

Fast attack: choice of 3
Hellhound class fast tanks
Valkyrie class skimmers (helicopter gun ship with room for a squad inside)

Troops
~4 squads of veterans, in Chimera IFVs
HQ
Company command squad, in chimera IFV

Elites.
If you must.

The meta-game is set up for this kind of medium armour saturation, but it still works.

[FraustyTheSnowman]

CutThroatRazor...I believe if you dig around on the forgeworld website you should be able to find the PDF ubdate for imperial armor one, which has the rules for Armored Company. If you're looking for a way to run the heavy tanks (leman russ) in great numbers, that's it. If you're looking for a good variety of tanks, then I heartily second Bunnahabhain.

[russellmoo]

The simple answer is yes, in fact IG can field a completely mechanized, armored element-

Just put your HQ and troops in chimeras (APC's) then load up on heavy supports you can take 3 squadrons of from 1-3 tanks (so if you really want to you could potentially run 9 actual tanks + some APC's and some specialized armor units like banewolfs or hellhounds)

[Reece]

While it's not really competitive, (IMO, given the proliference of Melta and Deep Striking/Outflanking/Drop Podding Troops) it is a lot of fun to play. If you happen to run in to the Missile Launcher Long Fang spam, it becomes exponentially more fun.

I've run six Russes in a list with a bunch of Infantry Platoons quite a few times. It never does exceptionally well, but it's always fun. I used to LOVE the Hellhound, but I haven't gotten around to including one in a list yet.

-Reece

[Tomxj]

I've run Forgeworld Armoured company list and I got destroyed! I ran 6 russes 5 chimeras and a couple of hydras iirc
My main problem was the field being turned into a parking lot, and i don't think i took advantage of the skills as much as i should have. I will say that the vanquisher with co-axel becomes great in an Armoured company list.

-Tom j

[Treadhead_1st]

With the new aircraft released this month (Orks, Marines, Necrons), and the apparent trend in Flyers becoming more prevalent in Codexes generally (Razorwing Jetfighters, Void Raven Bombers, Storm Ravens, Valkyries, Vendettas) do you feel that the Hydra is becoming more important than ever? I'm heavily debating my Heavy Support slots at the moment - I originally wanted to have a spam of AV14, 3/5 Russes at 1500/2000pts (respectively) as my main army are non-mechanised. However, I have recently been turning towards Artillery and Support units more and more, which with Squadron rules means that *something* is losing effectiveness (be it Tanks, Artillery or Hydra).

Can the mass of Autocannons we get elsewhere in the army make up for not taking the Hydra (with its superior range, accuracy, and denying SMF saves)? Or do the advantages out-weigh the benefits? If so, should a squadron of more than 1 be taken, or should we be looking to take 2 individual Hydras and squadron up the Artillery/Tanks? Is this actually the "wrong" way to deal with these emerging units, for example, should we be duelling them with Vendettas instead?

I can't remember if the Necron craft have Quantum Shielding or not, which would significantly reduce the Hydra's effectiveness, but with 3 new Ork planes, 1 new Marine...thing, and all the others previously existing, there's quite a lot of aerial units appearing in the game - and no doubt they will have a more prominent role in the next edition (to help sell these new kits that every army appears to be getting at one point or another).

I thought I would get some opinions on this, as a potentially shifting metagame might mean I can't take my beloved Tanks without hampering myself quite severely (seriously, 5 Russes of various stripes and a whole boat-load of infantry seem to make people panic like mad when thrown down on the table - particularly if they are packing Autocannon/Missile Launcher spam as their only long-ranged anti-armour weapons)!