Tactica Imperial Guard

[Bunnahabhain]

Absolutely not on the hydras.

Manticores, griffons and other artillery can hide behind terrain and use ordnance barrage from out of LOS
Hydras need LOS, which means the enemy will probablyhave LOS back....only one AV target in LOS means it dies.

[laudarkul]

In my area I usually try to deploy the Manticore behind a building/ruin with to windows/cracks so that LOS to it it's zero. Those D3 large blast Str10 (+higher of 2D6 for penetration roll) scares a lot of mechanised armies, so it's a most wanted target in my army (coupled with 1-2 Vendetta's and a squadron of 2xHydra's). Hydra's benefit from cover granted by a Chimera in front of one and being two, the chances to have at least on firing are bigger then a Manticore behind a Chimera.

[Astromarine]

So, um, guys? I haven't posted on Warseer in ages, but I'm in serious need of help. HELP ONLY YOU CAN PROVIDE *cough*

I've been away from 40K for years. I'm just now coming back, and of my myriad armies of grey metal and plastic I decided I want to paint my Vostroyans first. Problem is, I have very little clue about Guard (I played Space Marines when I was active in 40k). So I have a bunch of Vost models, but no idea on how to build them into a coherent army.

I'll post a more detailed list later, but just as a sketch to start the discussion with you guys, I have maybe around 40 lasgun troopers, 5 or 6 of each special weapon, at least 2 of each heavy weapon team, 7 or 8 assorted officers, 1 command squad, 3 radio dudes, 6 snipers, and an extra doctor I believe. Note, when I say "each special weapon" I mean those that exist as vostroyan models, of course. Oh, and a Chimera.

So what's a decent army that I can make with this? Of course, not *just* with this, that's the point. Can you guys steer me in what else to buy, to make a nice, fluffy, non-competitive but not autoloss army? I have access to around 5 or 6 more tanks for a *really* cheap price (2 manticore boxes and 3 leman russ boxes of various flavors I think) so those are easy to include, everything else is normal price. I have no problem paying for more stuff, I've been saving up for this so don't worry about the cash. What I *do* have a problem with is conversions, so stuff like converting heavy weapons I'd rather avoid for now. I'll worry about that once the army is done. Because of that, I'd like to limit it to models that can be added to a vost army with no break of style (stuff like comissars, psychers, etc are universal, and vehicles of course. Maybe stormtroopers? Just no obvious cadians or catachans)

So, um, yeah. I know it's a lot to ask. There's the whole carapace armor or not issue, there's the fact that even though I can buy more stuff I'd like to avoid it purely as a way to not grow my Unpainted Cupboard Of Doom, etc. Please help me anyway.

[razormasticator]

Well my advice first off, is to get some extra flamer vostroyan models off of ebay or where ever.... Snip the flamer barrell And get some plastic meltaguns and snip the barrels. Replace with the barrel of the meltagun. Its an easy conversion that I did when I had some vostroyans. there even was an article floating around here or on GW on how to do it.
You will want/need meltaguns in today's meta.

I would suggest doing the same with the Lascannons, get yourself some extra lascannon weapon teams, use the crew to man some plastic autocannon's from the heavy weapons sprue boxes. You will want autocannons as well.
I would add x2 chimera's at least if you can. It helps having vets in chimeras these days.

Manticore's x2 is a good buy, as is x2 or x3 Leman Russ Hulls. Maybe 2 standard and 1 Demolisher box. a Commissar is a must, if not two.
Since vendetta's or valks dont really fit, maybe some sentinels with armored hulls. Sealed cockpits so you dont have to worry about crew etc.


Then you can do an Infantry Platoon, blob squd type thing or if you get the chimera's you can do some mech vets and a blob squad.
Mix in some heavy support, season to taste.

I realize this is general advice, and offers up some purchasing, but these are just some standards that are tried and true with guard these days.
Autocannons > Heavy Bolters
Meltaguns > flamers in most lists etc.

I am sure others can offer more advice.

[Bunnahabhain]

I agree with all of that, except to say that flamers are also very useful. For heavy weapons, simply using standard plastic ones, with a pair of normal riflemen loose on the base is fine. No need for complex conversions.

If cash isn't too much of an object, adding to the infantry as described above, and getting several chimeras so you can run a mechanised force as well, would be a good plan. That would give you three different armies you could run, all of which are reasonably good ( or better), and have many overlapping models, so not too much extra painting.

Carapace armoured infantry- for them, you have to use the veteran entry
Mechanised infantry-
Platoon based, infantry heavy

That should give you loads of options, look good, be fluffy, and be edition/codex change proof.

[razormasticator]

He said he already had some flamers, so I was thinking he keeps the ones he has, and then gets a few more to convert. But yes, Chimeras+Mech = Good options.

[FraustyTheSnowman]

If you have access to the lascannons (which are a good choice) it's pretty easy to take the crew and put them with plastic autocannons (which you'll likely want some of). Mortars aren't bad either.

Yes, flamers are good, but you'll want melta, so wherever you can make some conversions you'll want to. Pending the people you play with being cool with it, one thing you might want to do is say the grenade launchers are equipped with melta bombs, and call them melta guns. At least temporarily to see how it goes. And yeah, more chimeras.

[Lord Cook]

So, um, guys? I haven't posted on Warseer in ages, but I'm in serious need of help.

To throw my cards in as well...

1) More units are generally better value than more upgrades. While fancy kit is fun, it's usually not worth as much as having more infantrymen carrying rifles. This applies to vehicles too. Carapace is not worth the cost.

2) Quantity is superior to quality for Guard. This is even more the case since the last time you played. Under the current rules, cheap, basic guardsmen and cheap, lightly armoured tanks in large numbers are definitely the way to go. This means Veterans and platoons of Guardsmen rather than Storm Troopers, and Chimeras / light artillery rather than heavily equipped Leman Russ.

3) Mobility is more important than ever. In an army that lacks fast troops (like ours) transports are very important. Other options exist but I would not recommend them as a beginners force.

4) Don't worry about converting heavy weapons. Infantry-carried heavy weapons aren't great. A couple of decent options exist, particularly if you're not looking for a very competitive army, but for the moment you can focus on other stuff. Lascannons and mortars are sufficiently "not bad" that you can afford to include some without auto-losing.

5) One Chimera will not be particularly useful. More would be good.


Something like:

Company Commander
4 Veterans w/ 3x Plasma guns, Vox
Chimera

10 Veterans w/ 3x Plasma guns, Vox
Chimera

10 Veterans w/ 3x Meltaguns, Vox
Chimera

Platoon Commander
Four Guardsmen w/ 3x Flamers
Chimera

10 Guardsmen w/ Commissar, Lascannon
10 Guardsmen w/ Lascannon

Manticore
Manticore
Leman Russ



This comes to 1235 points. I've purposefully tried to use the models you already have available, so for example by adding vox casters (that's your radio carriers), lascannons for the infantry and a high number of plasma guns compared to meltaguns. It assumes you can convert some flamers to meltaguns, as this is a simple conversion and quite essential. A couple of Manticores for massive suppressive fire and a single Leman Russ to sit in front of valuable targets and provide them with cover saves while flinging battle cannon shells down range and soaking fire.

Some nice long range firepower, some stuff for up close and a small platoon for sitting on an objective. For more points I would increase the size of the platoon, add another Veteran and/or Psyker squad, and seriously try and get some more anti-tank in there. Particularly in the form of high(er) rate of fire weapons such as autocannons.

[laudarkul]

Small question regarding the "Weaken resolve". If the PBS is mounted in a Chimera, the range is measured from the fire-points or from the hull? I measure the range from the firepoints since it needs line of sight(based on the new FAQ), but I'm correct or wrong? Thank you.

[Necrofencer]

Hello guys,

to stay on the All Foot Guard theme, I'm facing difficulties in building my PMC list. The main structure is pretty fixed but with options everywhere, there's still plenty of room for things. Basically, it will be:

2 HQ squads (maybe stand back and MoO, maybe SW caddies, maybe Creed or Straken somewhere)
2 Enginseer + Plasma cannon (Gotta find the plasma love somewhere)

6 Vet squads, with one or two GL-totting goalkeepers and one with Harker and meltas (Doctrines are cool but aren't cheap so I don't know. Same for Power Fists. As for weapons, I'm thinking more plasma and melta for the remaining three squads. HW will be missile launchers, because anything else doesn't really make sense for light infantry)

2 Stormtrooper squads (one melta, one plasma)
One unspecified Elite choice (another melta ST squad? Ratlings? Marbo?)

The points left in AC-Sentinels (for AT-love and because that hallberd+jetpack conversion of rough riders is a bitch)


Then I'm lost. The list heavily depends on the 2 HQs for its playstyle and build (Creed gives me another flanking unit and allows for less bunching up, Straken needs CC-weapons, MoO need the vet squads to be defensive while the SW caddies need the whole list to play aggressively to cover them). Plus the dilemma between giving everyone Stealth or Melta bombs and taking 5 scout sentinels with AC.

I will have all this eventually so I will be able to make a whole new playstyle by switching a pair of models but right now that's not exactly an option. I'm also aware that the list is kinda gimped by its fluff, since I can't take platoon (I mean, BS3 for an elite group of mercenary shocktroops?) and chimeras would defeat the whole point of an all foot list, but I would like to at least avoid getting steamrolled by everything (it tends to get old really quick). So, can you give me any advice?

[AngryAngel]

I don't know, foot lists for guard without some expendable masses of men, that scares me. Guard squads of 10, even vets die fast when anything takes an intrest in killing them. Your probably going to want either the stealth or carapace. For CCS I usually go for stealth as 3+ is better then 4. Though if terrain is an issue, I'd get the carapace.

Your lacking the reliable AT with not taking platoons or some heavy weapons with your vet squads. You running the sentinels as armored or not ? Armored would be best if you want to try and keep them alive past their inital volley of shots. Use them well, and don't be afraid to toss them into CC now and then to save your other more squishy squads. Sometimes tossing a sentinel off to fight, die and explode can be just what ya need to hold a flank.

Other then that, you'll need to be very carefull how ya deploy your forces, as lack of transports will make them squishy and less mobile. An elite foot army though is hard to really pull off without some armored support. As the idea of being elite can come from the armored support such units will receive as a force multiplier.

So it'll do what it does, and thats about it. Might be difficult at times, but tossing in a valk or vendetta or two could help round the list out some.

[Fithos]

If it were me I would play it as follows:

I would give all of the vets stealth. I would give them generally a mix of plasma guns and Grenade launchers and sit them in cover and make my opponent come to me. I would mostly rely on controlling objectives on my side of the board and hoping I can use Stormtroopers/outflanking sentinels to contest my opponents. Maybe outflank Harker to take one if you think you can. I would play both Stromtrooper squads as Melta since you are very light in heavy AT. Sentinels with Autocannons or lascannons. Maybe take a combination of armored and scout. maybe 2 Armored with lascannons in seperate squads and 3 scout with auto's in a single squad. That way you have a cheap outflank to contest an objective and a couple tar pits.

I would also probably use Marbo for your third elite. He has always been worth his points and seems really fluffy in a light infantry army. I would also make sure to include an astropath. Probably take double MoO and then 4xflamers in your CCS and stand them behind your formations of camo guys. I ues P.Fists and I like them, but generally if you are in combat you are dead anyways so just remember that at best you might take down a terminator and at worst you are spending 15pts to kill a 6pt ork.

[ColShaw]

If it were me I would play it as follows:

I would give all of the vets stealth. I would give them generally a mix of plasma guns and Grenade launchers and sit them in cover and make my opponent come to me. I would mostly rely on controlling objectives on my side of the board and hoping I can use Stormtroopers/outflanking sentinels to contest my opponents. Maybe outflank Harker to take one if you think you can. I would play both Stromtrooper squads as Melta since you are very light in heavy AT. Sentinels with Autocannons or lascannons. Maybe take a combination of armored and scout. maybe 2 Armored with lascannons in seperate squads and 3 scout with auto's in a single squad. That way you have a cheap outflank to contest an objective and a couple tar pits.

I would also probably use Marbo for your third elite. He has always been worth his points and seems really fluffy in a light infantry army. I would also make sure to include an astropath. Probably take double MoO and then 4xflamers in your CCS and stand them behind your formations of camo guys. I ues P.Fists and I like them, but generally if you are in combat you are dead anyways so just remember that at best you might take down a terminator and at worst you are spending 15pts to kill a 6pt ork.

The problem here is that you won't always be able to make the opposition come to you; Vet squads with Plasma Guns can certainly be effective, but they're most effective within 12", which means getting the enemy to come within 18" (or less, if you're in cover, because a bad terrain roll can really screw you). And an army like this doesn't really have much long-range firepower to force the enemy toward you. Even assault armies can be dangerous in this situation, because they can often assault from 18" away (or more!)

When I'm playing my infantry Guard, I rely on the following:
1) Huge masses of troops;
2) Huge numbers of squad heavy weapons (Autocannons, Missile Launchers, Lascannons);
3) Deployment that allows, nay, encourages the enemy to charge my front line and kill some of my men--then get blasted to pieces by the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th lines of troops the following turn.

All-Veterans is a very risky way to run all-infantry. I've done it, and I've won games with it, but they weren't easy games. You'll be quite vulnerable to return fire, and to getting out-shot as well as out-assaulted. It'll end up being a very finesse-based force.

As far as army composition goes, I would NOT use either Creed or Straken in a Vet list; these guys are most effective amongst huge blobs of infantry (especially Straken).

Likewise, I'm not really seeing the point of the Engineseers. If you feel you must have Plasma templates, then either Armored Sentinels or an Executioner will both do better; even if they're the only vehicles in the army (Engineseers aren't exactly resilient against return fire either).

I'm thinking Armored Sentinels might be a good use of some of the points you'd save by not using Creed/Straken. They're less vulnerable than a lot of people think they are; easy to get cover, Armor 12 in assaults, and you can get your Plasma on. They'd also fit the elite-mercenary theme you're going for. I second Fithos that Marbo is a fluffy choice, and often a very useful one.

You will want to think, and think hard, about how you plan to counter either heavy shooting or heavy assault lists; dismounted Vets are effective shooters, but often are forced to be reactive to the enemy. Some squad heavy weapon upgrades might not be a bad idea (Lascannons/Missile Launchers).

[Lord Cook]

The problem is that armies built around lots of Veterans on foot are just weak. There's no benefit to it; no purpose. The best strength the Veterans have (highly specialised close range shooting) is negated by lack of mobility, and their greatest weaknesses (lack of durability and leadership) are magnified. Adding stealth is throwing more points at a lost cause. They won't hold against assaults, they won't be able to maneuver away from assaults, and ironically, they'll frequently be shot to pieces from mid range. No shooting army is going to move into range of a slow moving Bs4 squad with three special weapons, and any credible assault army can either charge from outside your effective range, or simply has too many models for small units of Veterans to handle.

Armoured Sentinels are fine as a tarpit if it's just one. But as soon as you're using two for that purpose, you have to wonder who's tarpitting who when you've got 120 points of Sentinels in a combat of unreliable length. And while Storm Troopers can manage fine at a drop-troop-suicide role, they're never going to last from Turn 2 or 3 (when they arrive) to turn 5 or 6 (when they would actually need to contest things).

Even if the foot Veteran army spams heavy weapons, it's just not that good. I've played against it multiple times and it just sits there. No mobility, very little ability to react to threats, serious leadership problems, and a huge overreliance on orders that makes the killing of your officers a crippling weakness.

If anyone genuinely wants an all-infantry or near all-infantry list that will work, reliably, against a variety of opponents, they need platoons. The best role for Veterans there is a single squad with Harker, and used in combination with infiltrate, move through cover and mobile weapons (such as grenade launchers or meltas) to give you something with a bit of flexibility.

[Fithos]

I would like to note that I agree with Shaw and Cook in that this army is weak at best. My post was about how I would play the army if it were given to me to play.

Armoured Sentinels are fine as a tarpit if it's just one. But as soon as you're using two for that purpose, you have to wonder who's tarpitting who when you've got 120 points of Sentinels in a combat of unreliable length. And while Storm Troopers can manage fine at a drop-troop-suicide role, they're never going to last from Turn 2 or 3 (when they arrive) to turn 5 or 6 (when they would actually need to contest things).

I'm pretty sure this was directed at me so let me explain what I meant since I think you misunderstood. I was advocating the use of 2 armored sentinels but I was really trying to use them as mobile lascannon platforms that could tar pit if necessary. In addition, I was saying to use them as separate squads to as to be able to tarpit multiple units simultaneously. The goal being that if I am playing foot vets that I really don't want them in assault so the Sentinels would function as both a chance at killing enemy tanks and a means to screen my weak infantry from the worst of assaults. 2 separate assaults.

Also, While I admit that the chances of the strategic reserves late enough in the game to be an object holder are low (1/36 of holding out till turn 5 unless I am mistaken) there are 5 units in this list outflanking or deepstriking (or just being behind you) which gives you a decent amount of chance that at least 1 of them will hold out until turn 4 by which time either the majority of your opponents list is decimating your main lines or it is getting late for them to get over to your main lines. Once again, not something I would want to rely on, but this is how I would play it if I had too. In retrospect of that fact, I would probably end up removing the astropath suggestion from above.

Also, I think 2 MoO will make a good number of people move toward you. Fair point about being assaulted from outside 18" I hadn't thought about that. I don't often get to play against long range assault armies.

[Reece]

@Col Shaw - You run blobs right? I normally run three blobs of 31. I run then with grenade launchers and nekkid Sgts (and a nekkid Commissar). I don't remember why I stopped using heavy weapons in them. I think I'm going to stick Auto-cannons in them again.

How do you run your blobs?

-Reece (using Tapatalk)

[ColShaw]

@Col Shaw - You run blobs right? I normally run three blobs of 31. I run then with grenade launchers and nekkid Sgts (and a nekkid Commissar). I don't remember why I stopped using heavy weapons in them. I think I'm going to stick Auto-cannons in them again.

How do you run your blobs?)

Yes, I run blobs when I go infantry-heavy. In my 2K infantry list, I use 3 blobs of 3 squads apiece, plus Commissar. The Commissar gets a Power Weapon (though he often doesn't do much with it!), the Sergeants get no upgrades, and each squad gets a Grenade Launcher and either a Missile Launcher or Autocannon. I find these weapons both work well together with the GLs; the Missiles can allow the unit to chuck 6 low-strength blast templates, while the ACs synergize well with the AP4 and medium strength of the Krak Grenades. There's really not much reason not to put Autocannons in the squads, at least; they're so dirt-cheap as upgrades, and make the squads ever so much more useful.

I also always run a "loose" fourth squad in each Platoon, which doesn't blob up and serves to provide cover and take hits for the blob.

The main thing to remember with heavy weapon upgraded blobs is that it shouldn't stop you from moving with them if the situation requires it. IG heavy weapons on infantry are pretty cheap upgrades; you don't have to shoot with them if the unit can be doing something more useful. I've noticed a tendency in myself to get "frozen" into a defensive mindset on occasion when using lots of infantry heavy weapons.

[Reece]

Yes, I run blobs when I go infantry-heavy. In my 2K infantry list, I use 3 blobs of 3 squads apiece, plus Commissar. The Commissar gets a Power Weapon (though he often doesn't do much with it!), the Sergeants get no upgrades, and each squad gets a Grenade Launcher and either a Missile Launcher or Autocannon. I find these weapons both work well together with the GLs; the Missiles can allow the unit to chuck 6 low-strength blast templates, while the ACs synergize well with the AP4 and medium strength of the Krak Grenades. There's really not much reason not to put Autocannons in the squads, at least; they're so dirt-cheap as upgrades, and make the squads ever so much more useful.

I also always run a "loose" fourth squad in each Platoon, which doesn't blob up and serves to provide cover and take hits for the blob.

The main thing to remember with heavy weapon upgraded blobs is that it shouldn't stop you from moving with them if the situation requires it. IG heavy weapons on infantry are pretty cheap upgrades; you don't have to shoot with them if the unit can be doing something more useful. I've noticed a tendency in myself to get "frozen" into a defensive mindset on occasion when using lots of infantry heavy weapons.

That's kinda what I was thinking today (no reason NOT to run ACs in blobs). I couldn't figure out why I stopped doing it.

My only possible issue is that I run three blobs but no "loose" squads. I should probably look in to doing this.

Do you run your CCS and PCS on foot too? I run my (2)CCS with 4x Melta and my PCS with 4x Flamers, both in Chimeras. The Flamers OFTEN out perform the Melta to be honest. After that, I sprinkle in whatever armor I feel like running. The only real problem is how long it takes to play a freaking game...

EDIT: What about Voxes? With the heavies in the platoons... I'm feeling an urge to invest in voxes now too.

-Reece

[ColShaw]

Yup, all on foot, all the time.

Rather than Voxes, I tend to use a Lord Commissar, who can boost the Ld of my Heavy Weapon Squads as well. Ld9-10 for Orders tends to be good enough for me.

I do use Flamers and Meltas on my PCSs, and use them as counterattack units, along with a Melta SWS. I actually break with Internet wisdom and take a mix of Flamers and Meltas in each PCS, so each one can threaten multiple types of targets. I only regret it when the Meltas can't hit worth crap.

[Reece]

I actually break with Internet wisdom and take a mix of Flamers and Meltas in each PCS, so each one can threaten multiple types of targets. I only regret it when the Meltas can't hit worth crap.

There are times when I really want to have a Melta in those Flamer PCS even if only a 50/50 chance I'll hit. I'm sticking with the PCS and CCS in Chimeras though. I really like running 2x CCS too.

-Reece