Rules Questions

[KaptiDavy]

Hi there!

Two questions were lost in the warp:

#124 (by PATRIARCH) In Pitfall, can the Librarian use his powers on the lower level - does going down a ladder count as one square in this case?

#125 (by XERXESHAVELOCK) Prescience. Does the marine player have the choice to burn more than one PSI Point for more than one CP move? I read no, but the Force Axe allows something similar. How do you read it?

I can't download the FAQ though, so forgive me if these are included... or maybe post a link

[wilsongrahams]

I can answer #125 pretty confidently.

A Librarian can only use one power per turn. It does not allow to use more than one, or the same power more than once, so it's a single use only. Any other option allows more than one Psychic Barrier per turn etc.

As for #124, nothing states that you can't though the fact you don't need line of sight probably helps here. For GAP I'd allow it's use and to count the ladder as 1 space as you say, though this isn't definitive, and the 1st ed rules may have more to say (having a larger section on ladders and pit falls and even shooting through them!).

[KaptiDavy]

Thanks!

Now I have read the topic from left to right, but since I still couldn't find the warseer FAQ, I have to ask two more questions:

1. How about attacking open doors in CC?

2. What if I flame a tile with a closed door on it, and in the same turn somebody destroys (or opens) the door? Do the flames spread to the remaining squares?

[wilsongrahams]

1. You're right this has never been mentioned, but as far as I know it can't happen - if the door has disappeared into the wall then you can't see it to hit it, so only closed doors can be shot or attacked. I cannot prove this however, but I've never heard of anyone trying to attack an open door before.

2. I thought this was covered in the FQ or the Alterations pdf but it's in neither so I don't recall where I read it, but yes, the flames spread if the door is destroyed from the clear side. It cannot be seen from the flamed side obviously due to flames blocking line of sight. I seem to recall you not being able to open a door too, but I think it's just closing a door in a flamed section you can't do in the same way you can walk out of a flamed section but not into it.

[KaptiDavy]

I've never heard of anyone trying to attack an open door before.

I've read about both cases here, a few pages back - I just keep asking these silly questions because I can't download the warseer FAQ, nd the topic doesn't offer any conclusion about these

Of course it's difficult to open a door from a flames section, but you can always shoot it from the other side if you have LOS...

[wilsongrahams]

The question isn't silly as such as it could be a valid tactic - to deny it being closed later in the game, I just think most people assume you can't because once it's open it's never in your front square to be attacked in close combat, and isn't in a square at all to determine LOS.

As I said I don't recall where I read it but I'm sure the question came up somewhere and you can shoot a door from the clear side, in which case the whole section immediately becomes flamed, hitting models in it etc. I'd probably say you can't open it until proven otherwise though.

[KaptiDavy]

Thanks!

Maybe I try asking about it elsewhere....

[Morty]

You can open or shoot a Door in a flamed Section from the Clear Side, but doing so with the RAW results in an now exposed Models Being hit By the flamer marker.

You can indeed attack an open door in mêlée only in 3rd ed as the door is placed to the side of where it was and thus takes up a virtual square to one side, LOS at range is blocked for shooting cuss of the wall. though for marines this is pointless wast of at least 2 AP to do so (turn then attack), bettor off using it else where, and 'stealer players should not do it cuss they need the cover option the door provides.

As for Psychic power's under 3rd ed RAP I would determine range for Los Free power's as normal through a ladder with the transition counting as 1 square. Since in this ed they have got rid of Partial Views the any Los Dependant affect can only be targeted into the square with the ladder on, if you are in the corresponding other side.
1st Ed had a nice little buffer zone around such obstacles that let the marine player get partial views up and down the pits but as the room shooting rules show all thats gone. I think this is because when they made the short film Genestealer they realized just how narrow a terminator's Field of vision really is and since they have dropped the wider rooms and corridors they don't need to allow partial shots.

[wilsongrahams]

Short film - genestealer? I want to learn more of this. Any help?

[Oakwolf]

On the 2nd mission of the campaign (2008 ed.), the conditions on both sides is to kill each other (or block accesses), but we've encountered situations where nobody would want to move...and there seems to be no mechanism to stop this from happening, or to break the tie.

Did i miss anything or is that mission prone to loops of eternity?

[wilsongrahams]

You didn't miss anything - that mission can end up like that, though in truth all missions can end up like that if there is no time limit. I've seen many games where marines sit at the end of long corridors because there are too many stealers at the other end to advance. On the other end of the scale, a mission with limited stealers tends to make the marine player happier to wait til they run out and then advance.

What you should propose is that in such a situation, the game ends and you call it a tie.

Personally, I play within the spirit of the game and always try to push forwards as marines - rarely wanting to stop and hang about. The genestealers are supposed to be numberless so waiting only invites more of them onto you.

Another option would be that for every turn after the third where neither side has moved, an extra blip is placed behind marine lines as if the genestealers have gone through the ducting or climbing through the roof space to get past the guns (Watch Aliens).

[strewart]

Yeah I have had that situation where both sides don't want to move.. If the marine players have a decently defended position, almost no amount of stealers from the same direction will help. Good idea to drop some free blips behind if there is no movement. The marine team really should be aggressive every game.

[Oakwolf]

The issue with "turns with no movements" is that people can go back and forth and still end at the same spot.

I would guess that a loose turn limit per game (something high like 30) could be done, in that case it becomes a draw. For a campaign, the mission will need to be re-done with the same squad (no casualties recorded if you use those rules)

[wilsongrahams]

The 2nd ed set had a turn counter that went up to 18. This was sufficient to me so could be used informally in 3rd ed. Delaying (apart from when the stealers will stop getting reinforcements) just allows stealers more time to slowly pick marines off and their chances reduce with each loss.

[Oakwolf]

Yes, that is the problem with the 2nd mission, there is a set number of stealers for it so the player just can't throw them until the marines jam or run out of ammo. You can still sacrifice a portion, but too many and you'll lack numbers in the end.

[KaptiDavy]

I'm just curious... which mission are you talking about?

[Oakwolf]

I don't have my books here so i can't tell the exact name. It's the 2nd mission on the book though. There's 5 marines vs 36 stealers. They come from sides of the hulk and the marines must kill them or sceal the entry points (stalking is prohibited and stealers/blips forced to stalk are destroyed).

What happens most frequently is that the 3 storm bolter guys block rather long corridors and covering fire is possible. The sergeant with TH can roadblock a door for a random turn but usually he kills 4-6 stealers before going down. The Assault Cannon can really have fun thanks to long corridors and choking points.

In the end, there might be 2-3 marines left and 3-4 stealers...nobody wants to move.

[wilsongrahams]

Actually I find that the sergeant usually gets to walk down any close off one entire half of the board for the rest of the game. The rest then usually have an easy time of it. It's not easy for the stealers hence the stand-off situations. One way to remedy this is to deploy your models in the positions they deploy in the Vengeance of the Blood Angels pc game rather than in the rooms. This means that the marines have a harder time getting into the perfect positions. Give me a few days and I'll get the map sorted and post them up for the alternative starting points.

[KaptiDavy]

Thanks! I asked because I currently work on a "full" edition that contains every available mission converted for 3rd edition (so it's good to know such things).... so here's a new question:

How about sealing doors in 3rd? My bet would be the 2nd ed version, when you must close them as doors, but in Mission 2 (exterminate), there's a special rule about lurking (Area secure), which left me in doubt....

and another one:

Can Genestealers lurk, or only blips are able to do so? If the stealers can too, is there any max amount?

[wilsongrahams]

Doors can't be sealed ever in 3rd. Some are jammed beforehand and are treated like bulkheads effectively, but no sealing - and the only time it's some is by forcing a lurk in that area - no 2nd ed style closing of bulkheads (which is a shame).

Genestealers can't lurk. If you are forced to lurk it's when the blip is placed or already at the entry point. You don't convert to stealers until the blip is activated to move onto the board (though if you tend to convert early for ease of play then do it however you wish) and you wouldn't be activating it if you have been forced to lurk.

In 2nd ed there was a limit of 3 blips per area, but no limit applies in 3rd so any number of blips.