Codex: Spyrer Hunting Party

[Ambience 327]

We've done both, and the Spyrers seem to fair pretty well in both situations. I'm pretty good at using terrain to my advantage, so it doesn't seem to matter if the table is 25% covered in terrain, or 75% covered.

The important thing to note is that the Spyrers are quite fast (with several of them being Fleet and/or having access to Scouts, Infiltrate or Jump Infantry), and are very capable of making maximum use of even minimum cover. (Small squad size of 1-4 models max makes this very easy.) When the enemy can draw line of sight to me, I can still usually claim a cover save, and I make sure that the ones that can't are those who don't need it (i.e. Orrus with their Power Fields and Jakara with their Mirror Shields).

I can see where hampering the other army's ability to maneuver and get line of sight at all might be a huge advantage of very dense terrain, but I've not played with terrain so dense that my opponent couldn't maneuver, so it hasn't come up.

[Vermin-thing]

Expanding this army could be an interesting idea. Perhaps at higher points value say 1001-2999, the spyrers could have access to more advanced equipment. The hart part is keeping the individuality of the army, the last thing we would want is another eldar/marine army, so how do we expand the list? We could make upgrades, in the form of advanced equipment, walkers, and or small tanks for each spyrer. We need to keep in mind each spyrers role.

Here's what I've got in mind:

The Patriarch, and Matriarch could get alternate weapon options, and more advanced equipment. Perhaps master crafted weapons, and armor witch gives a invulnerable save, or an improved one.

The Jakara could have a 2 handed sword, or a improved shield.

Malcadon could have access to a light walker which can move through terrain.

For the Yeld, there could be some form of skimmer, staying far away from the jetbike. Another option could be improved wings, which would allow the yeld to jump into, and out of terrain.

The Orrus could have a version of the razorback, which he/she is connected to, which could be upgraded to have missiles, or a niffty big gun.

[Ambience 327]

Not really where I was intending to go with this army. I prefer to keep them as a small force for small games, and possible allies for larger forces. I won't be developing anything along those lines. If you want to run with it though, be my guest.

[Hunger]

I am definitely into this.

Only problem is it would cost as much as a regular 1500pts marine army to ebay all those spyrers!

[Ambience 327]

Just do what I'm doing - convert your own. I really need to get a modelling project log up that I can point to from here. I've got 8 Spyrers built, with another 6 in the works, and I'm trying to figure out the best way to make my helper drones.

I'll say this for now - Eldar, Dark Eldar and Tau parts are all rather useful for converting up most of the Spyrers, while the Orrus are made quite simply using Space Marine parts.

[Whitwort Stormbringer]

I'll second that, especially Eldar and Dark Eldar, are useful in converting your own Spyrers. They have the perfect "sleak but armored" look for the spyrer bodies, so all you have to do is figure out what you want to do for heads and weapons.

Adeptus Mechanicus can make a good Patriarch, while a Matriarch can be easily converted based on some of the Sisters models.

[Ambience 327]

I do humbly request that if you try these rules, you come back and let us know how it went...

[Pink Horror]

I tried to read the codex. The first thing I got to was the Jakara, of course. A model that takes both its invulnerable save and its armour save. Ok, maybe I can stomach that. Then she has a mono-molecular sword that sometimes ignores invulnerable saves for no fluff-based reason, as far as I can tell... all right, let her have a little bonus. And then I saw that she can get a "sharpened mono sword"... now tell me, how do you sharpen a mono-molecular sword? Is it then half-molecular? If you're going to try to go against all of 40k's precedents and write sci-fi-babble explanations for everything ("resonant energy vortex"???), please don't give me so many WTF moments.

[Ambience 327]

Thanks for taking the time to have a look, and especially for sharing your comments. I'll do my best to adress them below.


"A model that takes both its invulnerable save and its armour save."

That was quite intentional, and I thought long and hard before commiting to that rule. It is a special ability to make the Jakara a unique unit that can freely expose itself to enemy fire and not only survive, but bounce the enemy fire back at them. That's how they worked in Necromunda (and yes, I realise that 2nd Ed 40K and Necromunda allowed lots of models to take multiple saves), and it just feels right (and awesome) to allow the Jakara to pull the same move in 40K. Believe me, it sounds powerful - and it is - but their high points value justifies some special abilities like this.


"Then she has a mono-molecular sword that sometimes ignores invulnerable saves for no fluff-based reason, as far as I can tell... "

I could have simply made the mono-sword a Rending Weapon, a Power Weapon, or even a regular Close Combat Weapon. However, that would not fit in with my vision for this army - being a very small and elite force that was powerful enough to deal with any army 40K has to offer with a relatively small number of models. True, the Necromunda version of the mono-sword is not the death-dealer that is shown here, but I had to go with the rule-of-cool here and make sure that the Spyrers had some way of dealing with a Dark Eldar Archon with a Shadow Field or a Storm-Shield weilding Terminator. They can't take them down by massed fire (not enough guns), so a steady application of solid-force (i.e. the Jakara's mono-sword) is the answer.


"And then I saw that she can get a "sharpened mono sword"... now tell me, how do you sharpen a mono-molecular sword?"

"GW DID IT". Seriously - look at the old Spyrer rules (in the original "Outlanders" supplement for Necromunda). The Jakara had an upgrade that was titled exactly the same. I tried to stick to the same names of upgrades where I could to maintain as much consistency as possible with the old rules and fluff (while making something interesting and playable in 40K at the same time.)


"If you're going to try to go against all of 40k's precedents and write sci-fi-babble explanations for everything ("resonant energy vortex"???), please don't give me so many WTF moments."

Again, "GW DID IT". The description for the Mirror Shield (where the line about "resonant energy vortex" comes from) is pulled pretty much verbatim from the Spyrer rules in the Outlanders supplement. This is true for most of the Spyrers' gear - I tried not to make things up when the fluff already existed. I also tried to include all of their equipment and rules in some way or another (which is why the Spyrers have rules associated with their Bio-Boosters and Photo Contacts, and even why the "Hunter's Vow" rule exists. As a long-time fan of Necromunda, I thought long and hard about any changes made to any of the rules, equipment and weaponry when I ported it over from Necromunda to 5th Edition 40K. Nothing in that Codex exists without a reason, and very little exists without some kind of justification from the Spyrer's rules in Necromunda. (Even the "Helper Drones", the biggest departure from existing Spyrer fluff, have their basis in the defense systems that the Spyrers had instead of Sentries in certain missions in Necromunda.)


Basically, it boils down to this: If I were to pull the Spyrers over to 40K, keeping all of their gear as close as possible to its power level in Necromunda, they would have to be a larger, less Elite force to stay competetive in 40K. Seeing more than a dozen or so Spyrers in one place (and that, in my Codex, represents 1500-2000 points!) just doesn't feel right. Thus, I boosted the power of some of their gear, gave them higher point values, and let them loose on the 40K Universe.

I don't ask that everyone agree with me on the decisions I've made, but I certainly don't apologize for them! Feel free to ignore my rules (and make your own if you are so inclined) if you don't care for them. That said, I would like to mention that these rules have not just been written and posted, but have been extensively playtested against a variety of different armies, and they seem (at least to myself and my small gaming group) to be balanced. They can win games, but they can also be beaten. (Notice the rules for determining which units are Scoring in a Spyrer army - that should show you that I've done some thinking about how this army actually plays on the table.)

One of my favorite things about this army is that it offers you the chance to build a unique army, consisting of a very small number of models (you can easily play a 500 point game with 8 Spyrers and no other models), offering a unique modelling challenge (as the original Spyrer models are a bit tough to get ahold of these days), as well as a nice change of pace on the table. If you decide give them a try, you might just find that they allow for a bit of fun - and that's what the hobby is really about anyway, isn't it?

[magath]

I'm liking this army a lot, although, as a bit of a die hard marine fan, I'll be using the rules, but converting an uber-marine kill team.

Heres a thought for army expansion. There was an article in WD many, many moons ago, which explained about how spryers defend themselves, by releasing tons and tons of little ball things, some of which became sentry guns, mines, etc. How about some sort of area of affect weapon akin to the orbital bombardment from the witch hunters codex? Make it 0-1, link it to a peice of terrain, and generate a random, but awesome, effect.

Also, while I was reading, I was struck by the idea of the old hunt clubs, and, oddly enough, Gantz. How about some sort of amry wide system like the tallyman have for daemons? 0-20 kills, nothing, 21-40 kills, +1S or something, representing their suits becoming more awesome as they kill more stuff.

[Ambience 327]

Hmmm...

Thanks for the comments, they are always appreciated.

Your ideas/suggestions are interesting, but I'm not sure whether I want to mess with the list anymore, or just leave it as-is, as I feel it is working pretty well right now.

Obviously, you are free to use them as Marines, though I think that kind of defeats the purpose. If it is fun for you, however, great!

As far as the "orbital bombardment" type attack, it is a cool concept, I will admit, but I don't know that it is necessary. The "helper drones" were based on those defensive systems that the Spyrers got in their missions instead of sentries - and I find that they perform admirably and help to expand the army beyond just being Spyrers. It is something to think about, and maybe toy with a bit, but I don't know if I'll add anything like that into the list.

Your other suggestion, the "hunt club" aspect, is sort of already taken into account by the "Power Boosts" - that is how the Spyrers improved in Necro, and that is how they are improved beyond their basic abilities in this list. I am intrigued by the thought of combat experience taking an effect during the game, however, and I might incorporate something like that. I am thinking maybe if you buy a basic Spyrer with no other upgrades, you could upgrade him to a "Spyrer Youth" or something (I'm sure a better name can be thought up) who pays a small price for the ability to make rolls during the game based on how many kills he has made to have Power Boosts added during the game at random instead of selected and paid for at the start.

[Pink Horror]

Ok, now you got me to look into the Spyrer fluff and the original Necromunda list, and I don't know where to start...

Necromunda was based on 2nd edition 40k. When 2nd edition was converted into 3rd, many stats went down, not up. So, if anything, when you changed the Spyrer's stats, you should have gone even more conservative than the Necromunda book. Instead, everything looks boosted. I'm not going to argue that anything is overpowered for the points, but I will say that everything is overpowered for the background.

A spyrer can terribly overmatch a gang member, but he is nothing compared to a space marine. Even a single member of the Imperial Guard should compare favorably to a ganger. They are a bunch of rich punk kids, and they would be over their heads against an Ork horde or Dark Eldar raid. But they might try to valiantly defend the hive (or just go for a few prestige kills before departing).

I see the Spyrers as part of a greater Hive Militia codex. Units of Spyrers could be elites. They would be wonderfully unique as mixed squads with Matriarchs or Patriarchs as sergeants. Anyway, the overall idea is that the gangs usually fight with other, but they unite against a greater threat. The army could have all kinds of "street smart" special rules for fighting in urban areas. Civilian vehicles could round out the list.

[Ambience 327]

Hey, if you want to produce an army list representing a gang/militia force, be my guest. In an army like that, I agree that Spyrers might find a place as Elite units (or maybe Elite individuals, something like Sly Marbo, only less "man-portable-Leman-Russ"-esque.) If that sounds like fun to you, DO IT!

As I mentioned, this isn't really intended for anything more than a fun army. I realise that the Spyrers presented here are quite a bit more powerful than they would be if they were a direct port of their rules and equipment into 40K. However, I think that allowing you to field them as a small group of highly elite warriors is really fun. Again I say - give them a try. They may not be perfect representations of Spyrers as they should be, but they just feel right and look cool on the battlefield.

[aglondier]

Hmmm...the idea puts me in mind of the Predator movies, young warriors sent out in hunting parties to hunt the most dangerous game in the universe...tyranids, orks, eldar, chaos...sounds like fun...might have to work on this myself.

Have you considered stepping up to Apocalypse? Gunship/transports? Necron-style drone transports? Spacemarine-style drop pods, with advanced weapon systems?

[Ambience 327]

Nope, haven't thought along those lines. The games I've played with these guys haven't gone over 1000 points. They are quite fun at that level.

[Exitas-Acta-Probat]

why not just have a single unit entry and allow certain armies to `hire` them. like a deathwatch squad. it would be much simpler and would solve any problems with balancing a whole army of them!

[Ambience 327]

Because it defeats my initial purpose for this codex. Yes - these guys are way over-powered for what they should be. However, what they are is FUN. Give them a try and you will see.

Also, putting different Spyrers, with their highly varied roles, into a single squad, really doesn't allow any of them to do what they should be doing or to show off how they run in Necromunda. Imagine sticking a Vindicare and an Eversor together with a requirement to stay in squad coherency, and expect them to both be worth their points. Or put a 50/50 Assault Squad and Devastator Squad unit together and see how they fare.

[Exitas-Acta-Probat]

i actually have some spyrers so i know how they work, i was working under the idea that they would be abee to ignore the normal unit coherancy rules and move around on their own.

[Ambience 327]

That could work, but again, isn't really the point of what I was doing here. Like I said, give them a try and see how they play. They work in the same way Movie Marines work - they are just plain fun and a great way to shake things up a bit in your gaming sessions.