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Thread: 7 Habits of Effective Gamers

  1. #1
    Tactical Ninja Malorian's Avatar
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    Exclamation 7 Habits of Effective Gamers

    7 Habits of Effective Gamers

    Last weekend I took the course ‘7 habits of highly effective people’ (great course and I think everyone one should take it at some point in their life) and the whole time I couldn’t help relate it to gaming.

    For those that have taken the course this will be easier to follow, but for those that haven’t please just read along and I’ll try to explain as best I can.


    Link to the model: http://unixgu.ru/7habits-pyramid.png


    The purpose of this is to describe how you get someone from being dependant to being independent and then finally to interdependent.


    The Dependence Stage:

    Relating this to gaming the dependant stage would be when we first learned the game. We needed someone to tell us everything, know the rules and stats for us, and basically hold our hands while we play the game. Hell you’re probably using someone else’s models!

    Habit 1: Be proactive

    The first step then to being a better gamer is to be proactive. Go out and read the rules, buy some dice/ruler/templates, buy your own army, and make up a list.

    This first step is critical as you are basically dedicating yourself to the hobby.

    Habit 2: Begin with the end in mind

    In this step gamers start thinking about what they are actually suppose to be doing with their army. They need to go out and defeat their opponent or capture that objective.

    Although this might sound like simple logic, and in a way it is, I think we all know or have heard about that kid that shows up with his army but then seems to doing things randomly as though they didn’t have a tactical bone in their body.

    Habit 3: Put first thing first

    Here the gamer learns to prioritize. He knows he should use the cannon on the chariot, the stone thrower on the block, and shoot down those fast cav before they are a problem.

    In truth you could call this the tactics page. The gamer learns what works and now has their own complete plans as to how to win the game.


    The Independence Stage:

    This is where you will find the majority of gamers, even veteran gamers. They now have all the mental tools they need to play the game and play it well. For this reason many gamers don’t go beyond this point, they are happy just playing and perfecting their army and strategies until they are the best oiled machine they can be.

    This isn’t the final step however, and a gamer that stops here will soon either get bored of playing or my even run out of players willing to play against him.

    Habit 4: Think win/win

    You can go and crush some one over and over but eventually the loser isn’t going to want to play any more. Taking up a win/win attitude will help keeping everyone happy and everyone having fun.

    This could include making your list weaker, not using certain tactics or game loopholes, or even setting up minor victories for your opponent such as letting him kill something with his favorite unit rather than avoiding it completely.

    Habit 5: Seek first to understand and then to be understood

    It’s all too easy for us to assume what other players want from a game, and in trying to implement habit 4 you might even make things worse if you don’t understand where your opponent is coming from.

    Maybe he likes playing a more combat focused game, maybe he likes to see the generals duke it out, maybe he likes to try new things, or maybe he just wants an ultra-competitive game.

    By talking to your opponent before the game you can then use that knowledge as to how to play the game and make sure it ends as a win/win.

    Habit 6: Synergize

    Once you are in a win/win mindset, and you and your opponent both know what you want from the game, the next step is to use that information to bring about the best games possible.

    This would mean things like using armies that are classic match ups for each other, finding new and interesting ways to incorporate your armies and skill sets towards game objectives you haven’t tried before, or even just setting up the most exciting game you can.


    The Interdependence Stage:

    Finally, once you’ve completed all the steps and are in control of all the habits you will be at interdependence. Your games will be under your control and yet they are also the culmination of the goals and wishes of you and your gaming group.

    Habit 7: Sharpen the saw

    In the end gaming isn’t everything and in a funny way the best way to improve your game is to back away some times. Don’t go all out until you are burned out and tired of your models, don’t read army books and fluff until you can’t get them out of your head, take some time with your family, recharge, and come back ready for another great and exciting game.


    The reason why I decided to post this is because I really feel too many of us are stuck at the Independence stage. We are all simply concerned about how to make out list better, what to do to crush out opponents or beat the latest army book, and basically just centered on purely competitive tournament play.

    I myself was clearly in this spot just a year ago and have slowly been moving further along in my gamer development. I no longer care about my win/lose record, I play more of my ‘weaker’ armies, and I even have gone so far to sit down with some of my fellow gamers to plan games a month in advance to make sure it turns out to be the best experience possible.

    So now take a second and decide where you fall in this? What stage are you in? What habit are you on or am having trouble with? Are you even at the stage that you want to be a better gamer?

    As I said a year ago I considered myself an ultra-competitive gamer and I mocked people who wouldn’t try to win and would rather go for ‘a fun game’. The trigger that changed things for me is 1. no longer being able to find people who wanted to play against me, and 2. reading some of the (once similar) extreme views of other on Warseer.


    And there you have it. That’s all I wanted to say and I hope it will be usefully as a tool of self reflection to my fellow gamers.
    The only cure known for the dreaded illnes of Ruleslawyeritus is a swift dosage of punchinthefaceicilin. -Tapok
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  2. #2
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    Re: 7 Habits of Effective Gamers

    Congrats. You seem to have realized that this isn't a game of skill, but an excuse for shoving around cool looking models
    Last edited by The Red Scourge; 26-11-2009 at 05:23. Reason: Don't drink and post ;)

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    Commander warhawk95's Avatar
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    Re: 7 Habits of Effective Gamers

    Very good article and it was intresting to read. Personally I think im in between independence and win/win. I still go out in everygame and aim to win, this is a game and I want the best from my oppenent and the best from myself and IMO the only way you can truely do your best is if you try to win. But on the other hand I do still aim to have fun and that is also very importan, and if I loose while having fun, so be it. I learn my mistakes and try and get better. Luckily Im part of a very competitive gaming group and we all aim to have a good time, but also to win. And I think what your gaming group is like can really determine what stage your at or how long it takes you to get to that stage. If you have a group that hates ultra competitive people then you will quickly be forced to the win/win stage or not play. If you are in an ultra comepetitive group though then you will be in the independence stage for while, or atleast as long as your enjoying it.

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    Chapter Master WhiteKnight's Avatar
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    Re: 7 Habits of Effective Gamers

    Wow, this post actually got me thinking about my hobbying and gaming. I also think I'm in the independence stage. For me, I like winning, everyone does, but in the end I'd rather have an awesome looking army that pulls draws then a gray-camoed army that pulls massacres. I find no real achievement in massacres but I find more achievement in pulling draws or minor losses against the best people in the store or area. For example:

    I played my Beastmen against a REALLY good Empire player. By the way, EVERYONE loves playing him because he always has a great attitude and makes some of the best jokes. So anyways, we duked it out for about 2 hours and then we tallied up the victory points, he beat me by 350 points, meaning a minor loss. Until I remembered that I captured 2 banners and had 3 table quarters and 1 contested. So it ended up being a draw.

    In the end, I just find it better to have close games then 1 way battles.

  5. #5

    Re: 7 Habits of Effective Gamers

    You've figured out the secret of war - it's a continuation of policy, not an end to itself.

  6. #6
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    Re: 7 Habits of Effective Gamers

    Some environments are far more competative than others.

    I remember joining an existing AD&D group 10 years ago with my "let's roll all stats from STR to CHA and see what character I can make out of that" ranger a group where min-maxed INT 22 half-dragon mages were the norm. It wasn't a success, both ways.

    But there is always someone needed to start the maturitization process... it's worthwhile..

  7. #7

    Re: 7 Habits of Effective Gamers

    Good post! I like it!

    Well, I supose this 7 rules can be extrapolated to all aspects in life... love, friendship, work, gaming... but they are far easier to achieve in gaming I think the line is quite blurry, though, and you can go backwards also


    I've been usually between 3th and 7th states for years, going from one to the other directly. I sharpened my lists and then quit playing... and come back, and quit playing all over the years. I just concentrated too much in the game so I fed up easily.


    It's funny because for me, the army that made me a better player (not speaking of competitiviness now) is 7th ed DoC. I used to play with the cheesiest daemon lists you could use with 6th hordes of chaos book. In Spain you usually couldn't field a daemonic legion army (Storm of Chaos list), so I had to use the cheesiest lists I could to achieve a 50/50 win ratio with my pure daemon army. I didn't enjoy the game that much... every game was like a test for me. I got better games with my skaven, but even though I love those little evil ratmen, daemons are soooo cool (I love 6th ed DoC minis).


    Then 7th ed book came, and I just crushed everyone in front of me for months (No one in my gaming group had daemons before, and they are an expensive army to collect, so I was the only DoC player by then). And winning started to be boring. I will always remember how sad was a tourney game VS 6th ed dark elves when I crushed his 2k army in 45minutes... I didn't lose any unit. I did not have any fun in that game, neither my opponent.


    I started to realize that winning was not all that good. I mean, it's good to win, but when you win so many games in a row the good feeling starts to fade away. There's no challenge, and what's more, people starts playing against you in an awkward mood, because they know it will be painful.


    Then I started to soften my lists a lot, not mixing the 4 gods, only 2 or even going mono-god. And I started to lose some games (I've lost only when going mono god, but it's something at least), but the game was more challenging. People stopped thinking that my daemons were a pain in the a$$ to play with, and both, them and me, started to get more enjojable games.


    Now I've been out of the game for 4 months, as I haven't been in my home since then (not because I got tired of the game), but my last games were clearly in step 6. I've even learned people how to improve their style of play (I'm not Napoleon, but after 13 years of competitive play I know some tricks ) and even lost games when doing it (and not on purpose ). Now when playing I almost look for draws, and do some filmic attacks that make the combat interesting (usually with a dead skaven warlord in the process, when playing skaven ). The game just got better for me, and as I know I am not using use the most competitive of all the builds, I don't feel "forced" to win, but just to perform well enough.


    I don't do it as often in WHF as it's more difficult to do it, but in 40k I usually play "fluffy battles" both in apocalypse and normal play and they are really interesting. You know you are not fielding the optimum army, but your enemy neither, and you use some cool looking armies. For example an entire Emperor's Children army (no daemon princes) with every one armed with sonic weapons that cost me a lot to buy but it's impressive while fielded... not for my (lack of) skill in painting, but because they all wear big weapons and the Emperor's Children shoulder pad


    I think when the 7th ed Skavens I'll paly with some crazy stuff also (when I got the time, that is).


    To sum up... It's hard, but learn how to loose while being in a good mood and have fun is the way to play this game. In the end, it's the purpose itself, that both players have fun.
    Last edited by yorch; 26-11-2009 at 11:28.

  8. #8

    Re: 7 Habits of Effective Gamers

    Quote Originally Posted by Condottiere View Post
    You've figured out the secret of war - it's a continuation of politics, not an end to itself.
    Fixed it for ya.
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  9. #9

    Re: 7 Habits of Effective Gamers

    The stages of a Dwarf player

    1. Beardling : Your eyes light up at the concept of a dwarf army, you can't wait to buy one up and get it killing things!

    2. Denial: After several games you still think Dwarves are the bees knees. You havent won a lot of games, mostly losses and draws, but you blame your inexperience not your army.

    3. Frustration: Your yanking your beard out or starting to think that the army is static and boring because you cant move like other faster shinier armies.

    4. Acceptance: You accept that perhaps Dwarves were not the bees knees, your going to try another army.

    5. Grey Beard: You come back and play the dwarves again but your more experienced and you don't really care if you win or loose as long as you can blacken some eyes and knock some teeth loose. Your a Dwarf damn it and your going to guzzle ale that would kill a manling after a single sip, tell bawdy stories and make anyone regret ever stepping up to you! GAAAAAR!!!
    Don't play someone and then throw a hissy fit they were WAAC and not a Theme player. Ask your opponent what kind of game they are looking for and learn to play both ways. Excluding players is killing this hobby.

  10. #10
    Tactical Ninja Malorian's Avatar
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    Re: 7 Habits of Effective Gamers

    I was thinking about this while I was watchin a 40k game yesterday.

    On one side you had a brand new eldar player where this was his FIRST ever game with them (plus he hadn't played anything else since 4th) and then on the other side you had a guy that was going to have a 'friendly' game with him by taking his space wolves and going mech with a bunch of assault cannons and heavy bolters... and then he didn't put any terrain on the board to give the eldar at least some cover...

    Ya... guess where he falls Certainly isn't thinking win/win...

    I would be surprised if that new eldar player even comes back to play with them again as he now thinks his army sucks.
    The only cure known for the dreaded illnes of Ruleslawyeritus is a swift dosage of punchinthefaceicilin. -Tapok
    The 7 Habits of Effective Gamers: http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=232493
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  11. #11

    Re: 7 Habits of Effective Gamers

    Quote Originally Posted by Malorian View Post
    I was thinking about this while I was watchin a 40k game yesterday.

    On one side you had a brand new eldar player where this was his FIRST ever game with them (plus he hadn't played anything else since 4th) and then on the other side you had a guy that was going to have a 'friendly' game with him by taking his space wolves and going mech with a bunch of assault cannons and heavy bolters... and then he didn't put any terrain on the board to give the eldar at least some cover...

    Ya... guess where he falls Certainly isn't thinking win/win...

    I would be surprised if that new eldar player even comes back to play with them again as he now thinks his army sucks.
    There are guys like this in my game club too, I have actually seen a waac player not only celebrate tabling the new guy but then tell the new guy every single step that he messed up in a jerky way. Guy never came back, I then asked the club that if they couldn't tone down the game for a noob then they should send the guy to me first.
    Don't play someone and then throw a hissy fit they were WAAC and not a Theme player. Ask your opponent what kind of game they are looking for and learn to play both ways. Excluding players is killing this hobby.

  12. #12

    Re: 7 Habits of Effective Gamers

    I would be at number 4 and i have been there for pretty much as long as I can remember. One thing I don't like, though, is that you make it seem like people who don't want to win are superior. For me, I like for both people to have an enjoyable game but I relish a challenge and there are few things better for me than winning a difficult game. I don't hold back in the game- to hold back is to imply that the opponent isn't a challenge. I'll change my list around and weaken or strengthen it at times just to shake things up a bit and see how enjoyable some other units and stuff are, but once that game starts I go all out and I would expect my opponent to do the same. Now then there is something awesome about seeing a HQ choice battling another HQ choice or an MC and I like setting up those kinds of fights, but I won't do that if it would lose me the game. Winning isn't everything, but holding back is an insult to the opponent's skill as a player.

    Its certainly important that everyone has fun, but if I go out of my way to play towards my opponent's army's advantages then not only would I be holding back but I likely wouldn't have much fun either. If you leave your favorite shooting unit open to be charged by one of my fexes or my wolf guard, I'm going to crush it even if not doing so would make for a more interesting game as if I didn't it would seem condescending as I would once again be holding back rather than respecting your skills as a the commander of an army of toy soldiers. Say what you will, but I don't think the ultimate finishing point is the same for everyone and not everything will fit into that list very well.
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  13. #13
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    Re: 7 Habits of Effective Gamers

    Quote Originally Posted by Malorian View Post
    I was thinking about this while I was watchin a 40k game yesterday.

    On one side you had a brand new eldar player where this was his FIRST ever game with them (plus he hadn't played anything else since 4th) and then on the other side you had a guy that was going to have a 'friendly' game with him by taking his space wolves and going mech with a bunch of assault cannons and heavy bolters... and then he didn't put any terrain on the board to give the eldar at least some cover...

    Ya... guess where he falls Certainly isn't thinking win/win...

    I would be surprised if that new eldar player even comes back to play with them again as he now thinks his army sucks.
    These things are just so common nowadays. My own gaming group still think you are a idiot to not send in the best you have in your army books...

    And when I say I don't want to go double HA in 2000 pts, they just laught at me and think I'm a noob...

    *sigh*

  14. #14
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    Re: 7 Habits of Effective Gamers

    Quote Originally Posted by Zilverug View Post
    Some environments are far more competative than others.

    I remember joining an existing AD&D group 10 years ago with my "let's roll all stats from STR to CHA and see what character I can make out of that" ranger a group where min-maxed INT 22 half-dragon mages were the norm. It wasn't a success, both ways.

    But there is always someone needed to start the maturitization process... it's worthwhile..
    Are the 7 steps about maturity? Or a linear progression from competitive gaming to fun gaming. I don't think it is fair to say one point of view is less mature than another.

    Reaching that 7th habit means being able to create and enjoyable game or all people involved. Both competitive and fun gamers have problems with this from time to time.

  15. #15
    Tactical Ninja Malorian's Avatar
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    Re: 7 Habits of Effective Gamers

    Very true and that's why habit 5 is so important. Once you want to be in a win/win situation the next step is to find out what that even means for your opponent.
    The only cure known for the dreaded illnes of Ruleslawyeritus is a swift dosage of punchinthefaceicilin. -Tapok
    The 7 Habits of Effective Gamers: http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=232493
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  16. #16

    Re: 7 Habits of Effective Gamers

    I whould say i am at 3 as i dont play many games to get better but i will one day
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  17. #17

    Re: 7 Habits of Effective Gamers

    I kind of like this...

    To be frank, I really only play against one good friend. We have learned the hobby together and have both become pretty good generals.

    I do think alot about formations that will win games and write tonnes of lists. These lists, however, always have a strong theme in mind and we both know in advance what our opponent will bring.

    The win/win stage doesn't have to be about 'deliberately' hamstringing your own playing. It can simply be about changing your list once it becomes tiresome. I've basically slaughtered my opponent's chaos lists in the last few games we've played.

    I'm busily polishing off my salamanders so that I get a fresh list to play around with and he doesn't have to face down my wave serpents anymore. I COULD continue playing my eldar but, by this point, I know my list inside out and basically run my eldar on auto-pilot. I probably won't field them again until I have a couple new units to throw down (I'm almost at the point where I can field my long-planned 'arachnid' army focused on warp spiders and scorpions).

    But before I get there, I have my Sallies. All the work I put into them over the years is going to pay off when my new 3000 point list hits the field. I haven't used them in a couple years, having been focused on building up my eldar and DIY marines instead.

    We also plan out 'special' units we want to use well in advance. For instance, I've decided against Vulkan... I don't like the idea of some random guy who falls outside the command structure leading my army. We tend toward low fantasy instead of high fantasty... Vulkan is too 'individual' to my mind.

    Hence, I want to use the BoLS character from the Badab book... a Master of the Forge who allows Vulkan's chapter tactics and isn't a crazy assault character to boot... he loses master of the armoury but he fits way better with my list that Vulkan does. Now I can keep the converted Captain I've had for years as the leader of the list and have a reason to field the techmarine in servo-harness that has been languishing in disrepair (being a pretty useless unit otherwise... and stuck in highly contested FOC area). My opponent agrees on all these points.

    Cheers,

    The Good Doctor.

  18. #18
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    Re: 7 Habits of Effective Gamers

    I'm in a kind of step four with the foot hanging over step 5 I guess, with some minor fluxuations of the other steps at times. After I won a tournament I stopped being focused on making "Da greetest lizt evah!!!one!!!11!!" and started just playing for the fun of it. An example that proved this very clearly for me was when I got a pick-up game against some random guy who played a DH force. At first I thought about using one of my standard lists until I heard he had something like 16 models in the whole army, no vehicles and practically no other AT besides CC. So, instead of running a banewolf and some other stuff I tried to go for a CC oriented guard list utilizing Straken and lots of infantry, backed-up by two chimeras. It was a fun game and he ended up with a win =)

    And now I'm planning an apocalypse game with some friends, starting with laying out the general rules for the game. Last time it became too heated and I thought that this time I want none of it, so we will declare rules that might seem ambigius and just make a general check that both the armies that are going to meet one another actually has a chance of winning.
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  19. #19
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    Re: 7 Habits of Effective Gamers

    I started playing with my little brother some decade and an odd ago..
    And from the get go I have always been the one teaching the "dependent" gamer.

    I did go through the first three habits, but I don't think I've ever been in a dependent stage in the time I've spent on this hobby.

    But even so, this is rather interesting

  20. #20

    Re: 7 Habits of Effective Gamers

    Great thread Malorian!

    Let's see how many posters respond in earnest and share their thoughts.

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