7 Habits of Effective Gamers

[Sons of Alaitoc v.2]

I wish I had read this ages ago. I had just got my younger brother to collect an army, and began to teach him, but I didn't go easy on him.

In the end he got bored, and gave up.

Anyway awesome, and I hope by the end of the year I will be on the final stage

[Lord Nestron]

I am at step 4 and still working on toaning down my lists to make games more exieting while helping friends build there lists stronger

[yorch]

By the way, the best thing to do is meeting more people, not just get centered in a gaming group. I, for example, have 1 gaming group but when I go to a tourney I try to meet everyone that seems to be a good pal. Then we probably play some games and if all goes well become common rivals. You don't have to be his friend or be from the same gaming group, just for 3 - 4 games a year with this person is enough. And having this variety is the easier way to get the best from the game, because sometimes you want to play a fluffy game, massive games, weird lists, competitive play... and this way you can have it all, even if your opponents are single minded in gameplay terms(which, fortunately, are not all)


About the WAAC players... well, we usually dismiss them in our tourneys (we have a tourney every 3 months or so, which has no economic prize for the winner), or hell, I play daemons... tailored daemons are horrible

[t-tauri]

I posted this in the fantasy section but it certainly applies to 40k as well.

17) Please do not post duplicate threads. Posting the same thread in more than one forum (including The Chaos Wastes) is not allowed. Please choose the most appropriate forum for your thread and post it there. However, it is acceptable, to include a link to a thread in your signature.

Do not open the same thread in two locations. Threads merged and moved to other GW.

[Pokpoko]

7 habits of effective people have nothing on 7 habits of highly effective pirates, which are far more relevant to real life situations.

6. If violence wasn’t your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.

12. A soft answer turneth away wrath. Once wrath is looking the other way, shoot it in the head

1. Pillage, then burn.

And so on. As I said, very practical

[Chaos and Evil]

Congrats. You seem to have realized that this isn't a game of skill, but an excuse for shoving around cool looking models

QFT, that exactly describes all three GW Core Games.

[outbreak]

I'd like to play more fun and less competetive but with my tomb kings i get stuck in a rut of where if i change anything up the list feels too underpowered and i don't have fun losing while thinking if only i had this or this here. That being said my tomb kings list isn't over powered anyway it's just some of the less tactical players (or people who don't play tk often as i'm the only guy at my club with them and i'm new myself) get their ass kicked against it.
That being said when i play my dwarfs my list isn't min maxed and is a more fun list (my skaven list will be too, no bell, no furnace, no abomination in my 2k list but i still think it should be a decent list).
The hard part is when your playing multiple people every week if you take a soft/fluffy list you end up facing someone who isn't and they dominate the game and afew guys here will gloat when you lose even if you weren't really trying to win. It's a hard middle ground to find against people your not friends with.

[Vermin-thing]

Stages of a Skaven player


1. Slavedom

Your just starting up on your army of vile ratmen, your super exited about crushing the things of the surface world. This is the first time you paint your unit of slaves, you then realize that that only gave you 100 points. The shock of the work, and reward reaped resounds though your bones.

2. Rising though the ranks

You've stabbed many a man-thing, and fellow slave in the back, your almost a clanrat, but not just yet. You've hand a few (three) games, and are starting to understand the basic tactics behind being a skaven general.

3. Rusty flea-ridden blade

Now your well on your way though the ranks of the clanrats, stabbing in the back, left, right, and center. Your still having trouble with a few units (most likely the work of Ehsin spies), and have won a few well planned (from the back) games. You now realize that it's going to take a long-long time to rise to be a warlord, or a seer, which ever way you go. Most give up or are slain at this stage.

4. Thirst for power

Your now a stormvermin, and have a good number of games, and cunning victories under your tail. The pressure is on for the race to the top. It's getting near impossible to find a reliable rat. Now you must wait for the perfect time to strike, just when the warlord is down. You've honed you're skills, and sharpened your blades, the man-things fear you, but it is not time to show your full strength. All the pieces are set up... You chalange your warlord to a duel to the death, and you surpass him, and deal the death blow.

5. Internal paranoia

You've now grabbed the seat of authority, and are commanding vast armies to do your dirty work. You spend every few moments looking to the side, and back for any who might prove a threat. You make your subordenates fear you though ruling with an iron tail. You keep your stormvermin -the ones you trust the lest- next to you at all times, and strike down any who you see fit. A wise warlord would leave no mouse holes. You are a master of your trade, killing, and or enslaving thousands of man-things, the time is now that you start a war with the surface world, for that is the only thing left to concur.

[unheilig]

now tell me the 7 habits of effective model painters.

[OrcsandGobbos]

So im still a dependent i guess. My army rocks, but i know o and g isn't the best, but man i have fun every single game against so many better armies. But man do i have a low w/l record

[Malorian]

So im still a dependent i guess. My army rocks, but i know o and g isn't the best, but man i have fun every single game against so many better armies. But man do i have a low w/l record

If you have your own army and know your rules then you aren't dependent.

You know what you what (to have fun) so you are at least at the independent stage but the question is if you are playig that way for it to be a win/win situation or if you are doing what you want because you think it makes an interesting army with no regard for if the opponent wants a more serious game.

[Thoume]

now tell me the 7 habits of effective model painters.

Could give a quick try, lets see...

STAGE 1
Habit 1
You get some paint pots / sprays / decent brushes and find a space to work on..

Habit 2
You figure out how these all work, or rather just have a go at slapping thick loads of paint on your first model and seeing what happens!

Habit 3
You look up some techniques and learn what order a model should be painted (undercoat -> base colour -> highlight etc.)

STAGE 2
This is more in context of a gaming group. Outside of that (i.e. display pieces) its a little trickier, so if anyone can fill in on that...

Habit 4
The group identifies what the standard should be (without being ridiculous!) and from that get more enjoyment out of games.

Habit 5
This coexists with habit 4, as the group would have also identified why those standards are being met; not to give each other a hard time, but to enhance the game for everyone (for example)

Habit 6
Dunno if I can elaborate enough on this; given habit 4 and 5, painting and gaming are synergetic at this point anyway, or would I be taking this too literally?

STAGE 3
Habit 7
During time away from the painting table, draw inspiration from other work and sources (architecture, textures, lighting etc)

Might be too basic a way of putting it, but just an idea...

[The Dude]

Fantastic post Malorian!

I think I can say without a word of a lie that I am well and truly in the Interdependant stage. I hope more people read this and understand how progressing through the stages will help the SOCIAL aspect of the hobby for them.

[silverstu]

Brilliant post Mal.. I'm pretty much in the interdependant stage- a battle both myself and my opponent enjoys is always the best way to go.[mind you haven't played in a while- hope I haven't picked up any bad habits!].

[Relconic]

I have to say as a new player who is trying to learn what I want to play before I go and spend a lot of money on an army. I play with several players, a fun new ork player who never runs the same thing twice and builds his army right before combat, another new player, who is buying his forth army after rejecting Space Marines, Eldar and Tau.

Of course then i have the other three that i play with, One runs a mechanized Eldar force or a Salamander list with Vulkan. Another runs a Black Templar army and the last runs Blood Angels. These three are the ones that are teaching the game to us. However, they never go easy or relaxed to teach us the rules. Versus the Blood Angels and Salamanders myself and dave never make it past turn 3.

If, I hadn't met the ork player I don't think I would still be interested in this game. The three of them are still definitely in the third stage of gaming

[Toshiro]

Really great post Mal and very worthwhile for everyone in this hobby to read.

[Stegadeth]

I am new here and followed the link from your Lizardmen Itchy Buum batreps. This is great stuff. Thanks for posting this. Stephen Covey is a neat guy and to see his Habits adapted to wargaming is really fun and reminds me why I play.

[frozenwastes]

In the introduction to the anniversery edition of 7 Habits, Mr. Covey compares and contrasts the different approaches to success. The personality ethic and the character ethic. The character ethic is about integrating principles of effective living into your being. The personality ethic is about learning techniques and strategies that you use.

Might I suggest that 90% of what's being talked about here is taking ideas in the 7 habits that are character ethic ideas and then putting them into a personality ethic framework?

Going through these stages and learning/doing what you need to in order to fit into the next stage is all about the personality ethic.

In the character ethic (the approach of the 7 habits), you don't figure out how to use your army, you don't figure out how to shoot the cannon at the chariot. You don't figure out it's more fun for everyone if you don't try to win at their expense.

Instead you fundamentally change who you are and make principles the core of your identity.

Talking about it in terms of your development as a gamer is missing the boat and falling back into the personality ethic. It's not surprising though, as it's been the dominant ethic for nearly a century.

If you want to function as a habitually effective person in miniature wargaming, you need to make the principles of success part of your character in all areas of life-- not try to figure out the techniques to apply them to the game/hobby.

[Blueshift]

I took about a 2 year break and have come back in a zen-like state. it feels really, really good when you lose that overly-competitive drive. i'll admit, i was a total dick. i even turned my good friend who was a blast to play with into a hard-ass rules lawyering jackass. its the wargaming equivalent to a cheesy sports movie.

[tezdal]

You forgot stage 8, quit GW games, find something nobodys ever heard to play, join TMP, attain elite angry old grognard status.