The 8th habit - going from good to great! LOL
The 8th habit - going from good to great! LOL
I just like to roll dice
This is a good example of why I like friendly games. Why I go PuG, I run into the guys who will play like a sloth so that we get less turns in. This might be slow people, but some of these guys are hardcore and know that my daemons need more turns to come in. When I play with friends though, we have the HQs throw down in fisty cuffs, we modify objectives for fun, we might say that deepstrike mishap never happened because I want to punch a bloodthirster in the jaw.
i wish more people would stop caring about winning, and do stuff that is silly. Test out builds that dont make any sense and whatnot.
My adventures with Nurgle! (painting and conversion log)
good article. I humbly add "don't take yourself too seriously."
the reason being, no matter how well you know rules you will be wrong sometimes. If you don't take everything too seriously and play relaxed there is less of a chance of getting so hung up on one little thing that you start making mistakes. Also taking yourself too seriously ruins the mood of a lot of games.
+1 to "don't take yourself too seriously".
+2 for sure. It's such a good principle to live your life by.
I think i climb up and down this ladder between step 5 and 7 from time to time. Sometimes i just really want to smash an opponent (most likely in a tournament though) and sometimes i go soft like a teddybear. Sometimes we prepare the battle before and comes to terms with what to use. Been playing for some 15 years and moving around alot have made me experience very different gaminggroups and enviroments so it might have helped in me going up and down those steps on a whim.. At the moment i think im in step 5 and i feel i need to go up..
P.S Talked a little about this with my Girlfriend who studies psychology a bit and she said this reminded her about this:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erikson...al_development
Just thought it might be interesting to compare.
Last edited by Kaos; 02-03-2010 at 22:06.
*2500 painted 15/5 2011*WoC: http://www.warseer.com/forums/showth...=1#post3294559
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This is a great thread and I agree with it. At first you'll primarily want to improve yourself and whoop some ass, but in the end in the end the bigger picture is the most important. To be sure BOTH sides have fun and to encourage people to pick up the hobby. After all, you're the wise and seasoned general, you should be an example!
On a different note: I'm still stuck at habit 1. Just started off with my skaven. Currently reading the rules (I think I got a grip on the basics now though) and waiting for some last supplies to be delivered so I can start assembling / painting my army.
I suggest that you change your original post to either hobbyits rather than gamers or put this in.
[quote name='Silent Requiem' date='Jan 20 2007, 11:54 PM' post='1170282']
7 Habits of Highly Effective Gamers
Despite the title, I don�t actually see a lot of people doing the things on the list, but as they have helped me, I shall pass them on. I�m leaving out things that you commonly hear about (know your codex, etc.), and focusing on the more obscure.
1) The Pause.
As in chess, a game of 40k starts off with infinite possibility (actually, chess is only near infinite, whereas 40k achieves infinity). However, as with chess, permutations decrease sharply as pieces are removed, and certain possibilities are discarded as obvious poor choices. This is why people become �better� players as the game progresses; their finite processing power is applied to progressively simpler problems, with greater chance of arriving at a successful conclusion. This accounts for many of the amazing �comeback� games that we have all seen (freakish dice rolling accounts for the rest).
As Grey Knight players, we are in the unusual position of starting the game with relatively few models on the table, so it behoves us to turn that perceived weakness into an advantage. Spend a while in silence at the beginning of each of your turns, while you figure out what you want each unit to do, and how you want to set about doing it. Move around if you need to; check LOS, gauge distances, that sort of thing, but don�t start making moves until you know what all your moves are going to be. And don�t chat... it can all to easily distract you.
We are not playing orcs or guard here. We don�t have 100 models on the table. I have less than 20. So there is no good reason why I shouldn�t know EXACTLY what I�m doing before I start doing it.
2) The Monologue.
Once I know what I�m going to do, I don�t shut up. I narrate EVERYTHING. Here is a sample of one unit at the start of the shooting phase:
�All right, that�s it for my movement, I�ll start my shooting phase now. I�m starting with squad Eddard here, and I�m going to roll to see if I can target that marine squad instead of the nearest target. I need 9 or less. I rolled a 7, so I�m shooting at the marines.
I have 6 men in the squad, with no specials, so I get 12 dice, needing 3�s to hit. 8 hit. Now I need 4�s to wound. 4 wounds. You save on 3+. OK, that�s it for this squad.�
The reason I do this is twofold. First off, it helps me know where I am and what I�m doing (game-wise). I�m not likely to forget much. Second, though, is that it allows my opponent to correct me BEFORE we have a problem (�Uh, actually, you need 5�s to wound, they have Mark of Nurgle.�) This makes my turns run very smoothly, with the added bonus that I get a reputation for being an honest and forthright player. We all know how hard it can be to distinguish between honest mistake and attempted cheating.
3) Agree LOS.
With a Water army, denying the enemy LOS is often critical. I determine LOS by using my tape measure, but with the blank side up, so no distances are being measured. I�ll then mark that line with a couple of dice and ask my opponent whether they agree that I have marked the line of sight correctly.
Example: �Do you agree that this is the LOS for your marine with the lascannon and that he cannot see anything to the left of this line?�
I�ll do this with all relevant enemy lines of sight, and then I�ll do the same for LOS that I DO want.
Example: �Do you agree that this is the LOS to your lead two tactical marines, including the vet sgt� and anything to the right of this line can see them?�
I can now move my Land Raider out from behind the trees, to the left of the first line, but to the right of the second line, secure in the knowledge that he can kill the lead marines without worrying about return fire from the lascannon. I may even confirm this with my opponent, depending on the quality of the player (poor ones can sometimes really need you to spell it out for them).
The huge benefit of working this way is that it avoids those heated LOS arguments that we�ve all had at one time or another. This makes the game more enjoyable and helps it run smoothly.
4) The Walk.
Periodically, you should walk a full circle around the table, stopping at various points to get a good look at the table from different vantages. Like Ender Wiggin, we must learn to shed our traditional "up-down" view of the table, and see what our enemy sees. Stand in his spot and ask yourself what you would try to have each of his units do. In this way you anticipate him, while perhaps seeing some LOS's that you would otherwise have missed.
I know some gamers who go so far as to play recon games entirely on what would normally be their opponent's side, with their troops advancing to meet them as the game progresses.
5) Always Measure.
Always measure the distance to your target, even if you know that it is within (or out of) range. Distance measuring is a limited commodity; you get to do it once per firing unit. Don't waste it.
Imagine an assault squad bearing down on your PAGK. You know it is within range, but measure anyway. It is 19" away. Now you know it cannot assault you next turn, allowing your other units to fire on more immediate threats.
Imagine a devestator squad in the far corner. You declare you are firing at it, although it is clearly out of range. You measure anyway, and learn that it is 42" away. Now you know you can safely leave cover, as the plasma cannons cannot reach you.
6) Victory Point Denial
In 2/3 of all standard games (Gamma and Omega), the winner is determined by victory points. While these will be examined in more detail later, there are two ways of getting VPs: you can take objectives, and you can kill the other guy.
Brother Ezzeran is quite right. In any given game, the Control player (usually us, see post 19) has to go to great lengths to deny their opponent the VPs that their superior raw killing power will give them. This is especially true for Grey Knight players, as our units are so expensive. A GK squad reduced to below half strength will often give the opponent more VPs than the entire value of the unit we are targeting. We must always weigh the VPs we are risking against the VPs we hope to gain, and use our greater mobility and conservatve tactics to minimise what risk we must take.If I can make one suggestion, you may want to mention that both Air and Water style combat usually has an emphasis on VP denial tactics while Earth and Fire typically do not. VP denial is a critical aspect of the 4th edition game, and deserves definite mention in just about any strategy article, in my opinion.
Thanks to Brother Ezzeran for raising the point.
this was 4th of course
7) Agree Terrain.
At the beginning of each game, before sides are chosen, point to each piece of terrain and agree the following points with your opponent:
-area terrain or WYSIWYG?
-if area, what hight?
-what is the cover save?
-what defines the limits of the terrain (important where terrain is mounted on a base)?
-is it difficult/dangerous/impassable?
-are any special rules being used (CoD, swamps, etc)?
It may seem tedious to do this before each game, but it avoids conflict later in the game when your Deepstrike scatters into terrain you think is merely dangerous (which is why you were deepstriking near it), but your opponent swears is impassable (thus killing your HQ unit).
well i can't put my self in any place and thats just cuse i really wouldn't know where i am. i like to win not going to lie, but i have found my self likeing surten games were i lost or came so close to loseing that i can't say i really won the battle (one sergeant on each objective is a real knuckle bitter and hilarious to see) those tend to be my favorite games as my guys seem to die for the most random reasons some times. but you can still find me in my competitave mode were i don't nesisariously throw the rules in your face, but keep the realistic to the game.
i think i'm just a step off from the interdependent, but i don't know if that since i'nm re-learning the rules as of not played in a year. in any case cool thread, really made me look on my self as a gamer and a general guy
Still an interesting read at least. It's not a bad thing to take a step back once in a while and look at how one plays his games.
@Brother Runya: Welcome to Warseer. Please use proper English (including capital letters, punctuation, spelling and grammar) when posting on Warseer. The use of any sort of text speak is generally frowned upon. Remember that there are many people on Warseer whose first language isn't English and "writing as it's spoken" doesn't exactly help those people when they try to read a post. It helps not to "submit reply" immediately but re-read through your post again and make corrections if necessary. Enjoy your stay.
sorry, i didn't even notice what i did till you pointed it out
:clap: Excellent work!
I for one am glad you posted this, and hopes everyone reads it.
I think at times even the best of us get sidetracked back into bad habits, and this is a beautifully concise way to describe how to combat them.
If you're ever unfortunate enough to be down this way, let me know... I'd love a game man.
Good luck with your hobby journey... because that's exactly what it is.
Thanks for posting this, it is a good read.
The objective of the game is to win. The point of the game is to have fun. The two should never be confused.
Lord I hate the 7 Habits book and the Authors overly smug face.
FashaTheDog: I only own two broadsides and while they can usually never fail a save, they can also be counted upon to never kill anything more intimidating than a guardsman.A tournament player: the glass is half empty
A narrative player: the glass is half full
An eldar player: why isn't my glass rending?
Good article. Thanks for sharing!
This was a good read. Not sure where id put myself though....
See, i have multiple armies for what i want to achieve. All themed. My Mono-khorne daemons are my win army. My Skink army is for fun. My world eaters are for giggles. So, either i fall into a catagory im missing, or i am a unique case?
I'm between habit 6 and the interdependance stage. No break yet because I'm enjoying it too much. It's great how I actually recognise everything on the list as having gone through myself, and trying to subtly stimulate others to develop as well.
Sometimes a post is so rotten I have to respond like dr.Cox My Dwarven painting log -- My Lizardmen painting log -- My Scurrying Skaven painting log -- My nurgle beastmen painting log --My Tau cadre painting log -- My knights of the white wolf -- My Ork painting log
---> Newest: 23-5-2013; Finished Riptide, broadsides and pathfinders ---> New: 13-5-2013; Lizardmen, tournament pictures, Won best painted army!
The only cure known for the dreaded illnes of Ruleslawyeritus is a swift dosage of punchinthefaceicilin. -Tapok
The 7 Habits of Effective Gamers: http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=232493
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The skink army I like to bring when my mates are losing alot. Almost to cheer them up. There are lots of jokes associated with them, like all my stegadons are putting there foot across rivers in the bases, and the skink on the palanquin is the lv4, not the frog.
There meant to be mostly fun for my opponent. I've enjoyed painting them more!
Last edited by thesheriff; 31-05-2011 at 09:37.