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Thread: How powerful was Melkor?

  1. #41
    Librarian
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    Re: How powerful was Melkor?

    What you have to realise with the Tolkien universe as it stands today is that all of the most important history was never finalised by JRR-he constantly wrote different drafts of events/legends within the history.
    The Silmarillion was never finished like LOTR but his son Chris pulled together the most coherent drafts he could to produce a publishable work.
    If you read the more recent books Chris has compiled they offer many contradictory takes on themes in the published Silmarilion some older than the published versions some more recent, many of which Chris hadn`t studied before the Silmarillion was published. For fans of the writing this is great but for Gamers it is very confusing.
    It must be remebered that just as LOTR is an account by Bilbo and Frodo of events, the Silmarillion is a record by the Elves (so not necessarily true, but the "accepted wizdom" of the first born)the Valar would no doubt know more about certain events.
    These stories were meant to be legends, so many things do not translate easily to role-play/gaming stats.
    As far as The published Silmarillion goes Morgoth is in the begging the most powerfull being in the world (Eru isn`t in the world-he has given "governance" of the little kingdom to the Valar).
    In the "expanded writings" it is stated that Tolkien intended to go back and make Melkor much more powerfull in the beginning, so much that Manwe could not bear his gaze and was daunted by his might.
    In the Silmarillion there is mention of Melkor "descending in a great burning" this was to be expanded so that when he declares that the world will be his alone forever, he decends into the earth and puts forth his powers into all the very fabrics of the earth (i say "earth" as in land as opposed to the seas or the air) this greatly diminishes his personal power but allows him to cause volcanic eruptios and so on and means that later when he is cast out his evil cant be removed from the world.
    As several people have said "what is power", in the beginning M is the most powerfull period. Later when he is diminished Tulkas turns up and it would appear that all his power is in his physical manifestation rather than "magical" powers, at this time he (T) is the physically most powerfull individual on the planet though M is more powerfull overall - like worlds strongest man is powerfull and could crush Obama but Obama has command of US armed forces. In whfb Nagash is arguably the most powerfull individual but Sigmar (no magic powers) defeats him.
    Hope that helps a bit.

  2. #42
    Chapter Master Horus38's Avatar
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    Re: How powerful was Melkor?

    Quote Originally Posted by jprp View Post
    What you have to realise with the Tolkien universe as it stands today is that all of the most important history was never finalised by JRR-he constantly wrote different drafts of events/legends within the history.
    The Silmarillion was never finished like LOTR but his son Chris pulled together the most coherent drafts he could to produce a publishable work.
    If you read the more recent books Chris has compiled they offer many contradictory takes on themes in the published Silmarilion some older than the published versions some more recent, many of which Chris hadn`t studied before the Silmarillion was published. For fans of the writing this is great but for Gamers it is very confusing.
    It must be remebered that just as LOTR is an account by Bilbo and Frodo of events, the Silmarillion is a record by the Elves (so not necessarily true, but the "accepted wizdom" of the first born)the Valar would no doubt know more about certain events.
    These stories were meant to be legends, so many things do not translate easily to role-play/gaming stats.
    As far as The published Silmarillion goes Morgoth is in the begging the most powerfull being in the world (Eru isn`t in the world-he has given "governance" of the little kingdom to the Valar).
    In the "expanded writings" it is stated that Tolkien intended to go back and make Melkor much more powerfull in the beginning, so much that Manwe could not bear his gaze and was daunted by his might.
    In the Silmarillion there is mention of Melkor "descending in a great burning" this was to be expanded so that when he declares that the world will be his alone forever, he decends into the earth and puts forth his powers into all the very fabrics of the earth (i say "earth" as in land as opposed to the seas or the air) this greatly diminishes his personal power but allows him to cause volcanic eruptios and so on and means that later when he is cast out his evil cant be removed from the world.
    As several people have said "what is power", in the beginning M is the most powerfull period. Later when he is diminished Tulkas turns up and it would appear that all his power is in his physical manifestation rather than "magical" powers, at this time he (T) is the physically most powerfull individual on the planet though M is more powerfull overall - like worlds strongest man is powerfull and could crush Obama but Obama has command of US armed forces. In whfb Nagash is arguably the most powerfull individual but Sigmar (no magic powers) defeats him.
    Hope that helps a bit.
    Great insights, thanks! Although you'd be hard pressed to convince me Nagash is/was the most powerful WHFB individual
    ‘Those who affect masks, and steal their way through shadows, and take the names of others as their own, are more deadly than any blooded warriors.’ – Gallan, On Espiel

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