Outsmarting a dwarf gunline

[Wolfroar]

Hi,

Can someone give me with some ideas how I can buy time for my elite units to get in H2H combat without being shot in the early game. I wanted to use eagles and/or skirmishers to distract his handgunners.

I was thinking either use 5 shadow warriors as a screen for my elite unit. But 12 handguns would kill them in one turn, bit of a shame for 95 pts.

Or I could smartly deploy the scouts in their flank (if possible) and charge them in the flank without getting shot at. buying time for my white lions or swordmasters to march on.

Any other ideas?

[danny-d-b]

The problem with high elves is there are no cheap screans, everything is quite expensive, there for they have to use speed and magic to there advantage

rather than screens try to get some knights or fast cav to get in to combat with the main shooters,

also certan spells can help, lore of life (houler wind and rain lord) comes to mind but there are others

[Wolfroar]

Yes a possibility, but I need to go full magic if you want to break through the dwarf amount of dispell dice. Frontal attack with cavalry and stand and shoot of handgunners is suicide, I think..

[danny-d-b]

well considering you need 4s to hit normal, if you charge from long range he will need 5s to hit, followed by 3s to wound a 4+ armour save

so 10 guys would get around 1.1 kills, which isn't enough considering you are now in combat with him and will do 3.5 kills

they will then do 0.25 kills and you should win by 3, 4 if you have a banner

[sulla]

Hi,

Can someone give me with some ideas how I can buy time for my elite units to get in H2H combat without being shot in the early game. I wanted to use eagles and/or skirmishers to distract his handgunners.

Shoot the handgunners with your superior range archers, shadow warriors and RBT's? That's one of their best roles, after all... Ranged stuff, fast disrupters and large targets are your priority targets for shooting. Also, consider the lore of life and/or high magic for your mages. Some protection in there for your elites too.

[Malorian]

You want to out smart a gunline? Don't engage!

Stay back, blast them with long range shooting and magic and then capture table quarters.

You should either tie or win.

[Tarian]

That, or target overload. (Hard for HE, I know...) Basically, stack a side with units (Assuming he doesn't have a lot of grudgethrowers!) and rush forward, under the assumption that *something* will make it there. Once you close with a gunline, it's pretty much into the mopup phase at that point. (DP's and Dragons are great for getting there in a hurry as they're fast and relatively hard to kill. I tend to use my Swordmasters as shooting bait, as everyone seems to want to kill them first.)

[outbreak]

as above, the way i beat my friend when he runs a gunline is rush alot of his artillery, once you hit a couple you should reliably overrun into the next pieces if his stacked them up in a group, then just avoid whatever troops he has denying him anymore points, a decent gunline will be using alot of points for you to take.

[theunwantedbeing]

Take your own gunline.(ie lots of bolt throwers and archers)
And Teclis.

He'll hate you.
Thus proving that gunlines arent fun to play against.

[mistrmoon]

the real question is, does he have an anvil? (thorek or normal) This will drastically change the way you should play against him.

[fluffy05]

Eagles are cheaper at 50 points and can be effective at charging shooting units to tie them up for a turn or two.

Even use 2 eagles to charge the same unit for a better result.

If you do shoot at the dwarves pick a unit and shoot at it until it is destroyed or has so few models it is not very effective.

If you can break up the dwarf formations this helps with getting into hand to hand.

The Dwarf Gun line is not unbeatable. The hardest thing about playing High Elves is the low toughness and fewer numbers. More practice and trying new ideas will help.

I hope this helps.

[KayazyAssassin]

the spells howler wind and rain lord would help

[Wolfroar]

Ok thanks for all the ideas. I will have to try some of them in upcoming battles.

I like the idea of setting up my own gunline with archers and RBT. I have to put them out of their range. Although his warmachines will kill me big time if I don't move to his side of the field fast.

According to the calculation of danny, horseman should work fine too. Or the use of eagles. But eagles are hard to come by, the blisters are all sold out. I had to buy a wood elf lord on eagle.

I plan to use magic if we are playing larger armies, below 1000 pts its just not working out for me.

And no, he does not have an anvil yet, I suppose he wont put it in either.

[AussieSocks]

well considering you need 4s to hit normal, if you charge from long range he will need 5s to hit, followed by 3s to wound a 4+ armour save

Wrong. +1 to hit (Dwarf Handguns), -1 to hit (Shooting at chargers) = hitting on 4s.

1.65 wounds

(Ten thunderers cost 140pts but shields are usually taken so 150pts)

You should then have about 3 dragon princes left, thus beating the dwarf player by about 2 (he has outnumbering).... That is NEVER enough against dwarves

Advice: Lore of Life for the Master of stone/ Howler wind/ Rain Lord etc... or Lore of heavens for Re-rolls on your bolt throwers (so awesome...), infinate range magic missiles or "The Comet".

BIGGEST ADVICE: BEWARE HIS CANNONS WHEN DEPLOYING YOUR BOLT THROWERS

Magic is the way to go imho.

[danny-d-b]

well considering you need 4s to hit normal, if you charge from long range he will need 5s to hit, followed by 3s to wound a 4+ armour save

Wrong. +1 to hit (Dwarf Handguns), -1 to hit (Shooting at chargers) = hitting on 4s.

1.65 wounds

(Ten thunderers cost 140pts but shields are usually taken so 150pts)

You should then have about 3 dragon princes left, thus beating the dwarf player by about 2 (he has outnumbering).... That is NEVER enough against dwarves

Advice: Lore of Life for the Master of stone/ Howler wind/ Rain Lord etc... or Lore of heavens for Re-rolls on your bolt throwers (so awesome...), infinate range magic missiles or "The Comet".

BIGGEST ADVICE: BEWARE HIS CANNONS WHEN DEPLOYING YOUR BOLT THROWERS

Magic is the way to go imho.

yep- however you missed the bit about charging from LONG RANGE

therefor
BS 3- 4s to hit
+1 to hit - 3s to hit
-1 for standing and shooting - 4s to hit hit
-1 for LONG RANGE- 5s to hit!

[stiggie]

yep- however you missed the bit about charging from LONG RANGE

therefor
BS 3- 4s to hit
+1 to hit - 3s to hit
-1 for standing and shooting - 4s to hit hit
-1 for LONG RANGE- 5s to hit!

he didnt lol,,

but yee,, id say mage spam him,, take eagles for war machine hunting and then just stand back and blast him with conflag, uranons thunder etc that have unlimited range ,,

[snottlebocket]

yep- however you missed the bit about charging from LONG RANGE

therefor
BS 3- 4s to hit
+1 to hit - 3s to hit
-1 for standing and shooting - 4s to hit hit
-1 for LONG RANGE- 5s to hit!

If he took a unit champion with a brace of pistols, he'll be stand and shooting from short range. You don't stand and shoot until everyone is in range and for dwarf handgunners the champion isn't that bad of a choice. You know they'll get in combat eventually and handgunners with shields actually stand a chance.

[danny-d-b]

If he took a unit champion with a brace of pistols, he'll be stand and shooting from short range. You don't stand and shoot until everyone is in range and for dwarf handgunners the champion isn't that bad of a choice. You know they'll get in combat eventually and handgunners with shields actually stand a chance.

yep but then your wasting 15 points and x amount of shots, just so you can stand and shoot at short range

[graymer]

As a Dwarf player, our weakness against HE comes in the form of magic and flank exposure.

Take the lores that impair our WMs; rush the flanks with heavy units and break down the defenses. Chances are if he's playing a gunline, they have not invested in anti-fear tactics, so any units that cause that are a bonus.

[Dark_Knight]

Close with the enemy and turn a flank. Two cav units, or whatever poison you prefer, and make the defeated unit flee away from your units (make the unit hitting on the flank of the dwarven unit either fear/terror/higher US) by fleeing into the other Dwarven units and war machines. One victory could ruin your opponents gunline set up. High leadership? So what. Just a few units fleeing would do the job. I inadvertently did this to my friends WE Bowline.