2nd ED memories....

[IJW]

Displacement, not Distortion. The clue is in the name...

[Tethylis]

Ronin-Ex, you may be right about the relative usefulness of heavy weapons against Carnifexes (perhaps I'm thinking of Krak missiles being S 8), but even so, it was 10 points well spent; I never saw a Carnifex fielded without it.

Carnifex could only have 2 biomorphs IIRC. In our local games these were almost allways the voltage field for 4++ and burning out enemy field saves, and regenerate. Have you ever tried to stop a 10 wound regenerating Carnifex with 4++ save! I swear one time I saw that thing take 22 wounds from a multi-melta and still managed to get back up next turn

That is scary!

[Phyros]

For a short while there was a guy who came to the store and ran the 20 Terminator Wolf Guard and after beating several players over a few weekends I set him straight by running 5 Carnifexes who all had (at least) Regenerate and either Toughened Exo or V-field.

It was pretty much one-sided on my favor.

[Lord Lucifer]

Space Marine commander spots my Ork Warboss, the undefeated Tuffgitt Badskaga, reckons "I'll fix 'im", and biffs a Vortex Grenade at me... which misses, scatters right back to the SM commander's feet, and sucks him into the warp. Much mirth and amusement!

Friend decides to invent a new special character, a true son of sanguinius. Practically immortal in every sense. An absolute beast in close combat, walking around with a Power Field for a 2+ unmodified with heftily decent armour to boot. I couldn't beat him in a punch-up, I couldn't scratch him with shooting.
So he shoots at a warbuggy, executes the driver, buggy goes out of control, crashes into the immortal son of sanguinius, and the ramming damage kills this nigh-immortal idol of cheese.

Chaplain with Displacer Field punches a tank, and it explodes violently. The Chaplain is caught in the blast, and his field displaces him... further into the blast.

Zodgrod Wortsnaga trains his wundergrots, they equip themselves with sharp knives and autopistols, and go around bludgeoning and stabbing people to death as unholy terrors to behold


SPLATTA CANNON!!!
Bounce bounce bounce WHUMP "Oi, 'oo shot dat!?"
"Err... sorry boss"
Splatta Cannons veering back into 'friendly' lines


Good times, good times

[Lord Lucifer]

I miss the actually scary Avatar who's only rival was the Bloodthirster.

Are you kidding? The avatar was SCARIER than the Bloodthirster, for one simple fact. Less attacks = less fumbles!
The Avatar was superior to the bloodthirster in close combat because it had LESS attacks

[Mr Zoat]

My worst memory, fighting space marine lev4 psychers in terminator armor (2x3+) with storm shield (4++) displacer field (3++) iron arm (4++) psychic shield (3++) and precience to re-roll all the above saves

Illegal. A character could only have one force field. No displacer field + storm shield.

Carnifex with adrenaline sacs. Run and shoot bioplasma. Also, psychic powers.

[Discord]

Are you kidding? The avatar was SCARIER than the Bloodthirster, for one simple fact. Less attacks = less fumbles!
The Avatar was superior to the bloodthirster in close combat because it had LESS attacks

Of course, less attacks means less criticals too, which balance out the fumbles. After six attacks or so the extra attacks became kinda meaningless.

[Hellebore]

Of course, less attacks means less criticals too, which balance out the fumbles. After six attacks or so the extra attacks became kinda meaningless.

The Avatar had 5. But it was S8 T8, as strong as a blood thirster and as tough as a great unclean one. The Suin Dellae also ignored Daemonic Aura saves.

It was immune to flame, plasma, and melta weapons. Only krak and lascannon were a threat to it.



The funniest moment from my 2nd ed games:

I'd just painted the (then) new metal hybrid predator annihilator for my space wolves. Back then it was actually invented by the space wolves.

Any way, during a game at the local GW Kharn the Betrayer charged the front of my tank, hit, damaged and sent it kareening out of control. I rolled straight ahead. Kharn rolled a 6 for his Initiative test to dodge out of the way and sustained 4 wounds. He ended up plastered over the front of the tank he destroyed.

Hellebore

[Lord Lucifer]

Of course, less attacks means less criticals too, which balance out the fumbles. After six attacks or so the extra attacks became kinda meaningless.

The problem here is that criticals are for successive 6s, Fumbles count from the very first one. This is a net advantage when all other modifiers add up to the same number.
I've played the match-ups (using proxy models because I was poor, the Heroquest Gargoyle made a brilliant little Bloodthirster analogue), and every time, Mr. Bloodthirster fumbled his way to inglorious defeat

[Archangel_Ruined]

The blood thirster was at an instant disadvantage to an avatar as it didn't get the invulnerable save. The bloodthirster was more of a threat in game though, the thing could fly. This was not a good thing.

[AndrewGPaul]

The Avatar had 5. But it was S8 T8, as strong as a blood thirster and as tough as a great unclean one. The Suin Dellae also ignored Daemonic Aura saves.

It was immune to flame, plasma, and melta weapons. Only krak and lascannon were a threat to it.

And assault cannon. OK, each shot was individually weaker, but what the heck; you had about 5 every time you fired.

As far as crazy Vortex Grenade stories go, in one game (a mixed game; Eldar and Chaos vs Squats and Space Wolves - the same one where the Ancestor Lord pwned a Lord of Change in one round), Ragnar Blackmane was in close combat with a Farseer (and coming off worst, IIRC). Someone chucks a Vortex grenade, which scatters onto the combat. Ragnar's 4+ dodge save saves him, the Farseer is not so lucky and goes on a one-way trip to Slaanesh's domain. That same game, a squad of Blood Claws with jump packs attempted to charge the Eldar lines. Maugan Ra, who was on overwatch, mowed down all 5 before they hit the ground again.

[Archangel_Ruined]

Overwatch, memories memories. Imagine if an order could put the new guard list on overwatch, let's see you flank march me now...

[Ronin_eX]

I'm not sure about that - the autolaunchers vehicle card doesn't specify the kinds of vehicle it could go on (and the plastic/metal hybrid attack bike came with autolaunchers anyway). As the the Terminator captain, he could take the Grenade Harness wargear card, which pretty much functioned like autolaunchers.

Ronin-Ex, you may be right about the relative usefulness of heavy weapons against Carnifexes (perhaps I'm thinking of Krak missiles being S 8), but even so, it was 10 points well spent; I never saw a Carnifex fielded without it.

I'll need to know where the autolauncher vehicle car comes from because it isn't in the main boxed set (which contained no vehicle cards) or the Dark Millennium. It could possibly be in the Guard Codex but I'm not finding it anywhere. (Nevermind finally found them in there)

Of course my group uses the Dark Millennium rules for them which requires every vehicle to have a unique load of vehicle cards. So he would need to equip each one in a unique way to pull it off anyways.

As for the grenade harness I'm not finding that anywhere. But I did remember that the Ultramarines codex had actual auto-launchers as an option for Terminators and for some reason that isn't in the BB thus I missed it in my search.

But my other points still stand. Spamming them doesn't work under the rules as you need to mix them differently for each vehicle and they still don't work against mobile armies who can get around them. They don't cancel out the actions of minis that are inside of them (they simply move half speed in a random direction, usually bringing them out of the cloud).

They also test for movement and dispersion each player turn and a lot of them are going away and leaving holes by the time his opponent's turn turn rolls around (at least 2 will likely disappear entirely and another 2 will be moving a not insignificant distance in another direction while a further 2 will be disappearing by next turn). So by the time his turn rolls around there are likely holes in the line and where there aren't any he can go on overwatch instead. And if they don't get LOS by next turn then that means the smoke didn't clear and that interferes with the smoke thrower's plans.

So the only actual cheating going on was spamming the vehicle cards without giving each vehicle a unique combination. But I think my main thing with that list is I can only see it being effective if he played with little to no terrain and against people who had no way of simply moving to a better firing position. Almost every army had access to guess range weapons that required no line of sight and by pulling this trick he ruins his chances of blocking avenues of enemy advance using Overwatch.

And he can only keep it up for two turns before running out of smoke (and those two blind grenades on the tac squads will really do jack in general) which then leaves him open with the enemy in a better position because while he was shutting his eyes they were moving to positions that made his smoke cover useless. In order to make the best use of the mono-direction cover provided by smoke you can't move to far and still keep the advantage so it limits movement if you are using it as a central tactical feature of the list.

Between smoke often not doing what you want, armies having ways to shoot over it, armies having many ways to move to angles where it doesn't matter and many other factors I don't see how this list was ever undefeated unless his group never played with much terrain and did so playing poorly made static gunlines (i.e. the kind of set-up that made players whine about overwatch being too powerful).

As a long time Dark Angel player I not seeing that being an effective list in the environment I play in. My group uses tons of cover (just like the rules suggest), and we play rather mobile lists. Smoke works well against static weapon emplacements but against mobile units it is next to useless as they can just get beside you where your smoke is fairly useless.

So I apologize for missing out on some things right in front of my eyes and making a call of cheat before getting all my info straight (teaches me not to do stuff like that at 2:00am) except for the misremembering (I hope) of the blind grenade rules and improper use of the vehicle card rules from Dark Millennium. But on the other hand I stand by my assertion that I can't see how that list was undefeated by anyone unless they were playing in terrain that heavily favoured it. So he wasn't misremembering everything, just a couple of things but I'm still surprised he was never defeated unless his group played static gunlines with no terrain to speak of.

[Bunnahabhain]

SPLATTA CANNON!!!
Bounce bounce bounce WHUMP "Oi, 'oo shot dat!?"
"Err... sorry boss"
Splatta Cannons veering back into 'friendly' lines


Good times, good times

Ahh, the awesome Boom-Spatt-randomboing cannon!

Not even Gork (or mork) knew what you would hit, but it was fun. At one point, because it was a good idea at the time( never a good start to a story, I know..) we had it drop random blasts where it landed, instead of its normal hits....
Rolled a D3 for radius, and a D10 ( or was it 12, or 20?) for the effect of the blast. I'm sure we had all the grenades in there, as well as D-cannons, earthshakers, deathspinners, and anything else we though of..
Propa mekboy speshul dere!

[Lord Lucifer]

Ahh, the awesome Boom-Spatt-randomboing cannon!

Not even Gork (or mork) knew what you would hit, but it was fun.

My perreniel opponent Skink, started playing in 3rd(ish) edition, and I introduced him to 2nd ed a couple years ago. First game, he borrowed my Orks, and took a shot with the Splatta Kannon because I promised him that it was always amusing, whether it was effective or not.
First time he fires it, it bounces across the entire table, spinning wildly off walls, and succeeded only in cracking his warboss on the noggin before flying off the field. Complete success!

Another mate, back when 2nd ed was current, had an Ork army whose boss owned the most pathetic Kustom Shoota in existence. EVERY damn game he'd get the max number of S2 hits in the first salvo, and blow up in the second

Grot drivers of Drednoughts getting fried by feedback when the hulking kans took damage, going out of control in a fire-frenzy, was just too awesome

Having twin-linked AUTOCANNONS on Warbikes, back when they were scary, and the ability to skid-turn with impunity, was just so *******' cool.
Then there's the fact that you could move and shoot at full effect with most things, and vehicles were MOBILE firing platforms. Changed the dynamic so much, having mobile shootie games with just a handful of units dedicated to close combat, I tell you it FELT more scifi

[WLBjork]

And assault cannon. OK, each shot was individually weaker, but what the heck; you had about 5 every time you fired.

You mean the multi-shot krak missile launcher?

It never has returned to this power level even yet.

[Lord Lucifer]

Yeah, the Assault Cannon was 3 sustained fire dice, at S8, doing something like D6 wounds per hit. It was filthy scary powerful, Terminators were to be feared!
Especially with BS5 and targeters, they never missed

[Ironhand]

I have NO good memories about 2nd Edition. I quit playing 40K because of it and only got back into the game after 3rd Edition came out.

[EvilFuzzyDoom]

That is an amazingly bad Nid player right there. o_O

Why didn't he just feed you a line of gaunts, lord knows he probably had enough of them.

He did. They got munched. By then, the lord was the only thing standing... at the end of turn 2. Four rounds of combat later, the 'Fex, Lictor and Warriors had also been munched. The Hive Tyrant ended up running away so I wouldn't get enough VPs to win.

Then again he is still punked by anything with a Vortex Grenade.

He was.

[AndrewGPaul]

I'll need to know where the autolauncher vehicle car comes from because it isn't in the main boxed set (which contained no vehicle cards) or the Dark Millennium. It could possibly be in the Guard Codex but I'm not finding it anywhere. (Nevermind finally found them in there)

Of course my group uses the Dark Millennium rules for them which requires every vehicle to have a unique load of vehicle cards. So he would need to equip each one in a unique way to pull it off anyways.

As for the grenade harness I'm not finding that anywhere. But I did remember that the Ultramarines codex had actual auto-launchers as an option for Terminators and for some reason that isn't in the BB thus I missed it in my search. .

I apologise; it appears I was wrong. If there was an Autolaunchers vehicle card, it wasn't in Dark Millennium. The Auto-launchers wargear card is in Codex: Ultramarines. From the same book, Space Marine tanks and Dreadnoughts have autolaunchers as an upgrade option, but attack bikes do not, for some odd reason.

Off-topic, do you have a list of which cards came in the game box, Dark Millennium and the codexes?