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Thread: 2nd ED memories....

  1. #2281

    Re: 2nd ED memories....

    Quote Originally Posted by Griefbringer View Post
    I happened to be browsing through a 2nd edition Ork codex recently, and I happened to pay some attention to squig catapults. While they individually did not seem particularly nasty, the idea of facing large numbers of them did not seem particularly inviting: not needing LoS, their fire could be relatively easily concentrated on a select area, and the squig swarms would remain in the game until they had eaten somebody, moving randomly. Having a dozen swarms buzzing around an area would make it a somewhat uninviting place, though resolving the random movement for all of those would take some time.

    Tyranid codex also featured the spore mines, which could be launched to a far away section of the battlefield, where they could float around until getting close to some unfortunate and exploding.
    This is actually yet another example of how 2nd ed.'s rather small lists contained a ton of depth and flexibility without being bogged down by single-use troop types.

    Both of those units are great tools for area denial, very useful in certain scenarios.

    The Orks in particular had a lot of different options in terms of game play. One of the (many) things I hate about subsequent editions was how it limited them and turned them into Tyranids in biker jackets.

    The Orks are one of the last armies I started collecting and I'm really enjoying the potential for conversions and the wide variety of tactics.

    Plus the humor value. Always the humor value.
    Want a better way to fight fantasy battles? Try Conqueror: Fields of Victory!

    Do you like Star Wars but hate the prequels? Ever wish someone came up with a decent story about how a decadent galactic commonwealth descended into chaos and civil war? Look no further.

    A proud player of 2nd edition 40k.

  2. #2282
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    Re: 2nd ED memories....

    Speaking of "area denial", I guess one of the important features of 2nd edition (and also RT) was that lot of weapons had effects that would remain on the table after the initial attack. Especially a lot of grenades had such effects: blind clouds obscuring visibility, buzzer squig swarms moving randomly and eating things, vortex fields moving randomly and sending things to warp, rad grenades irradiating areas, blight grenades making areas biohazard, plasma grenades potentially expanding to mini-supernovas. A lot of options for area denial, but also for obscuring visibility etc.

    Also flamers could set target on fire if they failed to initially hurt them - leading to the targets trying to extinguish themselves on further rounds until succesful or going down in flames - though unfortunately (???) the rules did not feature the possibility of putting areas of vegetation in fire...
    Who is Griefbringer? Read his poem.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cenyu
    Since World of Warcraft players manage to get themselves killed due to exhaustion, why should Griefbringer not manage to get himself killed with a regiment of table top miniatures. YouŽd be a pioneer.

  3. #2283
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    Re: 2nd ED memories....

    Quote Originally Posted by Griefbringer View Post
    Also flamers could set target on fire if they failed to initially hurt them - leading to the targets trying to extinguish themselves on further rounds until succesful or going down in flames - though unfortunately (???) the rules did not feature the possibility of putting areas of vegetation in fire...
    Well of course not , thats what the anti-plant missiles were for!

    I love the smell of Napalm in the Morning...smells like...Breakfast...

  4. #2284
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    Re: 2nd ED memories....

    Anti-plant grenades would have also been handy for taking out any large carnivorous man-eating plants cunningly hiding among the more regular vegetation... though for some reason those plants do not seem to appear much in 2nd edition material. Unlike the RT rulebook, which had pages of rules for plants of various levels of lethality (some of these also appeared later in WD with rules for the 3rd edition).
    Who is Griefbringer? Read his poem.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cenyu
    Since World of Warcraft players manage to get themselves killed due to exhaustion, why should Griefbringer not manage to get himself killed with a regiment of table top miniatures. YouŽd be a pioneer.

  5. #2285

    Re: 2nd ED memories....

    Quote Originally Posted by Griefbringer View Post
    Speaking of "area denial", I guess one of the important features of 2nd edition (and also RT) was that lot of weapons had effects that would remain on the table after the initial attack. Especially a lot of grenades had such effects: blind clouds obscuring visibility, buzzer squig swarms moving randomly and eating things, vortex fields moving randomly and sending things to warp, rad grenades irradiating areas, blight grenades making areas biohazard, plasma grenades potentially expanding to mini-supernovas. A lot of options for area denial, but also for obscuring visibility etc.
    Back in the day, a preferred strategy of mine was to use plasma cannon to create obstacles of this sort. I fired them on low power and created little puff balls of "don't go there."

    As our games scaled up, this was found to be too time-consuming and we dropped the use of "persistent effects." So if models didn't die from a flamer attack we simply left them on the board. The only exception was for blind grenades which remained active until the start of the firing player's next turn.

    The resulting game isn't as detailed, but you get bigger forces and faster game play, so I'm happy with the tradeoff.
    Want a better way to fight fantasy battles? Try Conqueror: Fields of Victory!

    Do you like Star Wars but hate the prequels? Ever wish someone came up with a decent story about how a decadent galactic commonwealth descended into chaos and civil war? Look no further.

    A proud player of 2nd edition 40k.

  6. #2286
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    Re: 2nd ED memories....

    Quote Originally Posted by mv40k2 View Post
    Me too. I miss throwing D4, D8, D10 and very occasional D20 (I cannot even remember where that was needed?).

    -mv40k2
    Additional AP die for close combat attacks where S is 8 or better IIRC.

    I mist add, I struggle to see how a single, even modified, D6 roll can give the same range of results as a D20, or even a D8. I can come up with a method that uses 2 consecutive rolls easily enough however. - but it's far, far slower than rolling one dice and that's the result.
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  7. #2287
    Chapter Master Hellebore's Avatar
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    Re: 2nd ED memories....

    Quote Originally Posted by Commissar von Toussaint View Post
    This is actually yet another example of how 2nd ed.'s rather small lists contained a ton of depth and flexibility without being bogged down by single-use troop types.
    Which was one of the things that made the eldar army so unique, as the aspect units were very mono-purpose, but extremely good at that purpose.
    "Humanity's Insignificance pales in comparison to its Ego." (Sir Rumplestiltskin)

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  8. #2288

    Re: 2nd ED memories....

    Quote Originally Posted by Hellebore View Post
    Which was one of the things that made the eldar army so unique, as the aspect units were very mono-purpose, but extremely good at that purpose.
    I agree. The armies of 2nd had clear-cut differences.

    The lists have enough detail that you can create different themes within them, but there is no mistaking - for example - a close-combat oriented chaos army with a Tyranid one, or an ork one.

    The restrictions in troop types were flexible enough that you could build lots of differently themed armies for specific scenarios rather than using a cookie-cutter org chart (which of course people gamed to exploit loopholes). At the same time, there was no way a chaos army could be as vehicle-heavy as the imperial guard. Every army had its own unique lane - even the space marine sub-lists.

    Which brings us back to your point about the eldar. They had some super-specialized troops and it was how you chose to balance these that gave the list its flavor. The eldar were very dangerous, arguably the most lethal faction out there. They were also arguably the most fragile.

    As befits a dying people, eldar players had to worry a great deal about taking losses. Their troops and vehicles can't really endure heavy fire for long. The other armies can, either due to numbers or power armor, but not the eldar.

    I really like that aspect of the game. People reacted in character when their armies took losses. If a squad got killed, the IG, orks and tyranid players likely shrugged it off unless it was a key position. Marines (both Chaos and Imperial) would groan at the depletion of their forces and the loss of so much combat power. But the Eldar players would really be upset because not only were their troops few and pricey, each squad had a key role to play.

    Even guardians served a specific irreplaceable role on the list.

    That completely went away when everyone else got inundated with specialized one-mission troops. Plus, the game became much more about rolling buckets of dice so eldar ceased being an endangered species and instead embarked on the same grunt rushes as everyone else.
    Want a better way to fight fantasy battles? Try Conqueror: Fields of Victory!

    Do you like Star Wars but hate the prequels? Ever wish someone came up with a decent story about how a decadent galactic commonwealth descended into chaos and civil war? Look no further.

    A proud player of 2nd edition 40k.

  9. #2289
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    Re: 2nd ED memories....

    Last week we had a chaos vs marine battle. 3 vs 3. It was Titled the Night Khorn stole Christmas. It was a quiet little imperial settlement in the midst of a valley and low and behold the heretics came. The Imperials did quite well even after Abadon teleported onto the actual Guardsmen tanks and destroyed 1 a turn.....when they blew up he took 3 of his 4 bodyguard with the tanks..1 for each tank he cut open!!

    The Imperials yelled at the swing in the battle after the Thunderhawk gunship flew over, destroyed a bunch of chaos vehicles and marines and unloaded a unit of Jump pack assault troops in the midst of the enemy. Things looked well.

    Then the Daemons appeared and the warp powers overwhelmed the Inquisitors and slowly the Emperor's finests fell.

    Truly a night khorne stole goodness.

  10. #2290

    Re: 2nd ED memories....

    Quote Originally Posted by Runesight View Post
    Last week we had a chaos vs marine battle. 3 vs 3. It was Titled the Night Khorn stole Christmas. It was a quiet little imperial settlement in the midst of a valley and low and behold the heretics came. The Imperials did quite well even after Abadon teleported onto the actual Guardsmen tanks and destroyed 1 a turn.....when they blew up he took 3 of his 4 bodyguard with the tanks..1 for each tank he cut open!!

    The Imperials yelled at the swing in the battle after the Thunderhawk gunship flew over, destroyed a bunch of chaos vehicles and marines and unloaded a unit of Jump pack assault troops in the midst of the enemy. Things looked well.

    Then the Daemons appeared and the warp powers overwhelmed the Inquisitors and slowly the Emperor's finests fell.

    Truly a night khorne stole goodness.
    What rules did you use for the Thunderhawk? I know there were some rules for the Armorcast super-heavies, but don't recall the ones for the Thunderhawk.
    Want a better way to fight fantasy battles? Try Conqueror: Fields of Victory!

    Do you like Star Wars but hate the prequels? Ever wish someone came up with a decent story about how a decadent galactic commonwealth descended into chaos and civil war? Look no further.

    A proud player of 2nd edition 40k.

  11. #2291
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    Re: 2nd ED memories....

    I have no idea about Thunderhawk rules, but I am aware that back in the later 2nd edition days you could at least purchase a metal Thunderhawk kit through Citadel Journal. It cost around 400 Ł, weighted a lot, and there was a warning that it would be a real pain to assemble.
    Who is Griefbringer? Read his poem.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cenyu
    Since World of Warcraft players manage to get themselves killed due to exhaustion, why should Griefbringer not manage to get himself killed with a regiment of table top miniatures. YouŽd be a pioneer.

  12. #2292

    Re: 2nd ED memories....

    Quote Originally Posted by Griefbringer View Post
    I have no idea about Thunderhawk rules, but I am aware that back in the later 2nd edition days you could at least purchase a metal Thunderhawk kit through Citadel Journal. It cost around 400 Ł, weighted a lot, and there was a warning that it would be a real pain to assemble.
    I remember the adverts. I don't think I ever saw one, though I did encounter the Armorcast kits from time to time. One of my opponents took the Eldar tank without letting me know, so when the think just stood there sucking up punishment, it threw me for a bit of a loop.

    Happily for me, my opponent didn't really know how to exploit his advantage and the thing was so big it couldn't really navigate the urban nightmare of the game board. I positioned a squad of devastators around it (2 combat squads) and slowly wore it down.
    Want a better way to fight fantasy battles? Try Conqueror: Fields of Victory!

    Do you like Star Wars but hate the prequels? Ever wish someone came up with a decent story about how a decadent galactic commonwealth descended into chaos and civil war? Look no further.

    A proud player of 2nd edition 40k.

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