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Thread: Codex: Harlequins

  1. #21
    Commander Ambience 327's Avatar
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    Re: Codex: Harlequins

    Quote Originally Posted by Vermin-thing View Post
    I had a second game yesterday.

    It was 1400 points with orks.

    The guy ran an all horde army, 150 boyz, 2 big meks with FF.
    Ouch. That kind of list is going to be brutal against anything not designed to kill hordes - especially elite troops like Marines, Eldar or - of course - Harlequins.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vermin-thing View Post
    I think the shadowseer needs some way to join a scouting mine troop, as half of the troop was shot to death, and only three made it into combat. Maybe give them stealth?
    Hmm... I don't know. I think the ability to Infiltrate, Scout or Outflank is pretty powerful already. I don't know that adding in a Shadowseer with his Veil of Tears or the Stealth rule is really needed. We just have to be careful with them.

    If I did add it, it might be an option for the Shadowseer to be upgraded, like the Death Jester gains his Veteran Status. It would maybe upgrade his stats in a similar fashion, and give him the Master Infiltrator rule...? I don't know - I'll think about it.


    Quote Originally Posted by Vermin-thing View Post
    The death jesters, all three of them proved underwhelming as firing at an ork horde is not necessarily the best thing.

    Yeah, they aren't great at anti-horde. But then, everyone has to have a weakness of some sort, don't they? Against Orks, I'd suggest the bigger guns on the DJ's (Brightlance, Dark Lance, etc) to pop their vehicles. Of course, if you are facing a horde like this, that doesn't help. In that case, if you know in advance, I'd say go for things like Shrieker Cannon or Splinter Cannon and run them with the Harlequin Troupes. Their Assault Weapon status would keep them firing on the move, and the Troupe would provide more protection for them. Powerblades are a nice addition here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vermin-thing View Post
    The marionette proved fine sept that its gun proved somewhat useless, 1 shot into a ork horde is kinda bad. lol Perhaps assault d6 would be in order, and a bump it to 15 points.
    I'm not sure what you mean here. His Shuriken Catapult is Assault 2 and his Nightweaver is an Assault 1 Template (i.e. Flamer type). The only "1 shot" weapon is the Fusion pistol option - which isn't optimal against Horde Orks but should usually equal one dead Ork before charging (assuming you hit). The Nightweaver should have torn them to shreds (seeing as it is a S6 Template), and even the Shuriken Catapult is nothing to ignore.


    Quote Originally Posted by Vermin-thing View Post
    The unfortunate mockingbird got shot down in turn 3, after being hit by a rocket, three sixes in a row will do that. I think it needs some sort of blast template weapon. Maybe S6 ap5 heavy 3 blast?
    Did you read the rules for the Sonic Cannon? It causes D6 hits, and has a Strength between 4 and 6 depending on how many Hits you roll. If you still think that is underwhelming, I have been considering adding +1 to the number of hits caused per Hit rolled as well, or maybe making it D3 hits per Hit (if that makes sense). This weapon is still a WIP, but I don't want to go the way of a Blast Weapon as that doesn't fit in with the existing rules for the Vibro cannon (upon which this is based).

    Quote Originally Posted by Vermin-thing View Post
    The aspirants did well, although every one failed the test but did not die.
    I'm very interested to hear more about how they faired. What did you arm them with, what did they do that caused you to declare that theh "did well"? Since this is a controversial unit (at least on another site I've posted this at), I want solid evidence that they help out the Harlequins as a whole, and more than just my own playtests would be helpful.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vermin-thing View Post
    I killed about three quarters of his army by the time the last harlequin fell, laughing of course.
    lol - nice. I think you could hardly be expected to have faired better against so many Orks. I'd love to see how this same list played against a more balanced Ork list with some vehicles and other bits and bobs cutting their numbers down a bit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vermin-thing View Post
    He won 2 objectives to nil.
    Well, at least he didn't get them all!
    *NEW!* Codex: Genestealer Cult (6th Ed) For the Father!
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    *NEW!* Codex: Harlequins (6th ed) The Harlequins will have the last laugh!
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  2. #22
    Chapter Master Vermin-thing's Avatar
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    Re: Codex: Harlequins

    Oh in the gun description for the shadowweaver it just says assault one. No mention of a template.

    Just disregard this post.
    Last edited by Vermin-thing; 13-01-2010 at 06:12.
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  3. #23
    Commander Ambience 327's Avatar
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    Re: Codex: Harlequins

    Sure it does, in the same way that GW describes it:

    Rng: Template S: 6 AP: - Assault: 1

    I have to wonder what range you were using for it though...?


    edit: Wait - you said Shadowweaver...that's in Codex: Eldar (and is Heavy1 ,Blast), and isn't the same gun as what my Marionette may carry. He has access to the Nightweaver, which is a lighter version that uses the flamer template and is described in the Marionette's unit entry.
    Last edited by Ambience 327; 12-01-2010 at 16:36.
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  4. #24
    Chapter Master Vermin-thing's Avatar
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    Re: Codex: Harlequins

    Right not thinking there, I totally missed the template part. That makes a of sense now. 1 S6 shot wtf, lol. And yes I meant Nightweaver.

    I've started painting my army.

    I've chosen a dark blue-purple undercoat, with reds, oranges, and yellows as the supporting/contrasting colors.

    For the mimes I'm doing red undercoat, brown coats, and dark-dark green details. Every thing else is going to be fairly random in terms of palette.
    Rumours of rumours??? thats warseer
    "I could have died"! "Looks like you lost this game in the "purchase models" phase."
    Armies that are done: 2k high elves Armies in progress: Skaven, Vampire Counts
    "Alright, your vampire just died. Roll for crumble." "...hah! You've fallen into my trap!..."
    My Eshin spies prevail again.

  5. #25
    Commander Ambience 327's Avatar
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    Re: Codex: Harlequins

    Sounds great. I'd love to see pics when you get a chance. It will probably be a while before I find time to paint mine, but I love seeing other people's work.
    *NEW!* Codex: Genestealer Cult (6th Ed) For the Father!
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    *NEW!* Codex: Harlequins (6th ed) The Harlequins will have the last laugh!
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  6. #26
    Chapter Master Vermin-thing's Avatar
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    Re: Codex: Harlequins

    I'm temped to use the avatar model as my great harlequin. Something like the avatar of the laughing god. I having trouble finding an appropriate model for the great harlequin.

    Perhaps an avatar form as an upgrade would be in order.

    He'd be able to laugh the enemies off the board.
    Last edited by Vermin-thing; 14-01-2010 at 03:02.
    Rumours of rumours??? thats warseer
    "I could have died"! "Looks like you lost this game in the "purchase models" phase."
    Armies that are done: 2k high elves Armies in progress: Skaven, Vampire Counts
    "Alright, your vampire just died. Roll for crumble." "...hah! You've fallen into my trap!..."
    My Eshin spies prevail again.

  7. #27
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    Re: Codex: Harlequins

    Quote Originally Posted by Vermin-thing View Post
    I'm temped to use the avatar model as my great harlequin. Something like the avatar of the laughing god. I having trouble finding an appropriate model for the great harlequin.

    Perhaps an avatar form as an upgrade would be in order.

    He'd be able to laugh the enemies off the board.
    May i suggest using a Deceiver model, a little green stuff and he fits the bill very nicely for a great "clown".
    Last edited by From Shadows; 14-01-2010 at 04:49.
    {The gene pool could use a little chlorine.}

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  8. #28
    Chapter Master Vermin-thing's Avatar
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    Re: Codex: Harlequins

    Quote Originally Posted by From Shadows View Post
    May i suggest using a Deceiver model, a little green stuff and he fits the bill very nicely.
    Not a bad idea. He'd probably be considerably larger than the other models. I guess I could change the base, and add a mask to the face, I'd just have to figure out which mask I would want to use. The Weird head extensions could be replaced with a hair piece. Does the model have hoofs or feet? It has feet.

    Somthing like this?

    http://images.dakkadakka.com/s/i/gal...5/27842_md.jpg
    Last edited by Vermin-thing; 14-01-2010 at 04:56.
    Rumours of rumours??? thats warseer
    "I could have died"! "Looks like you lost this game in the "purchase models" phase."
    Armies that are done: 2k high elves Armies in progress: Skaven, Vampire Counts
    "Alright, your vampire just died. Roll for crumble." "...hah! You've fallen into my trap!..."
    My Eshin spies prevail again.

  9. #29
    Commander From Shadows's Avatar
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    Re: Codex: Harlequins

    Quote Originally Posted by Vermin-thing View Post
    Not a bad idea. He'd probably be considerably larger than the other models. I guess I could change the base, and add a mask to the face, I'd just have to figure out which mask I would want to use. The Weird head extensions could be replaced with a hair piece. Does the model have hoofs or feet? It has feet.

    Somthing like this?

    http://images.dakkadakka.com/s/i/gal...5/27842_md.jpg
    Yeah like that, Could be a nice centre piece for the space clowns.
    {The gene pool could use a little chlorine.}

    Just tell the ladies......"Hey, I'm like technology... smaller, cheaper, better".

  10. #30
    Commander Ambience 327's Avatar
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    Re: Codex: Harlequins

    I'm glad my work has sparked such conversations.

    I think, if I were to use the Deceiver model for anything, it would be as a Marionette. Who says it has to look like a Wraithlord?

    I'll be doing a conversion for my Great Harlequin when I get around to it, though I'm not sure what I'll base it off of though. I don't think I would want to use something as large as the Avatar or the Deceiver. Jain Zar seems like an interesting model to base a Great Harlequin off of...
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    Codex: Exodites The Dragon Knights prepare to charge!

  11. #31
    Chapter Master Vermin-thing's Avatar
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    Re: Codex: Harlequins

    My army is at 1500 point now, and I'mm really happy how it turned out. Painting is still in progress though.

    I've got one question, if I roll snake eyes on the "the ritual" table for the Aspirants, do I add in a solitaire?
    Rumours of rumours??? thats warseer
    "I could have died"! "Looks like you lost this game in the "purchase models" phase."
    Armies that are done: 2k high elves Armies in progress: Skaven, Vampire Counts
    "Alright, your vampire just died. Roll for crumble." "...hah! You've fallen into my trap!..."
    My Eshin spies prevail again.

  12. #32
    Commander Ambience 327's Avatar
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    Re: Codex: Harlequins

    Glad to hear your army is progressing.

    I can see where you might think that, but no - the "2" roll is really just a bit of flavor text. It would be a bit much to throw a Solitaire (possibly even more than 1!) into your army just because you rolled well for the Aspirants, since a "naked" Solitaire with no gear costs as much as 6 Aspirants and their Harlequin overseer - which would net you up to 3 rolls on the Ritual chart.

    That text came about because I was reading a lot of Rogue Trader era stuff when I was writing these rules (as that is where the Harlequins really had a lot of fluff), and these kinds of things were more common then. It's better (at least in my mind) to know that some of your "lost" Aspirants become the most feared Harlequins of them all, rather than just losing their soul to the Warp and perishing.

    You could use it as justification in a campaign of some sort for adding in a Solitaire later though. (Of course, you'd still have to pay the points for him.) You might even decide to say that, during your campaign, you aren't even allowed to field a Solitaire until at least one of your Aspirants has rolled a "2" on the Ritual table, and you have then played X number of games afterward. You could give it an upside of making him 10 or 15 points cheaper due to having to "unlock" him in this fashion. It would be an interesting little twist, and you might never get to field him, but you'd get him a bit cheaper if you did. (That's the beauty of a friendly, long-running campaign. You can add little things like this to flavor it up a bit and make it more interesting.)


    I'm glad you at least are still showing interest in this list. I plan to post a minor update in the next week or so (maybe sooner, depends on my schedule). One option I am considering adding is a "Veteran Shadowseer" who will get slightly boosted stats and the ability to join Mime Troupes. It won't be cheap, as adding "Veil of Tears" to Infiltrating/Scouting/Outflanking Mimes has to come with some sort of extra cost.

    I am also thinking about adding in the Webway portal as an option, but I'm not sure who all should be allowed to carry it. One possibility I have thought of is making it a Fast Attack choice by itself, and listing who you can give it to in its "unit entry". That way it comes with a price tag of more than just points - it also costs a valuable FA slot, but lets some of your units get across the table a bit easier and safer.

    Any thoughts on these ideas? Any other additions/modifications you might want me to consider?
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    *NEW!* Codex: Harlequins (6th ed) The Harlequins will have the last laugh!
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  13. #33
    Chapter Master Vermin-thing's Avatar
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    Re: Codex: Harlequins

    I doubt that a full fledged Solitaire would be balanced, but a Junior one might be an option. They could be fielded in a squad of 1-3, depending on how many double ones you roll.

    The webway portal could simply be a redux of a drop pod, or spore. Maybe another Type of transport, in line with a falcon, or serpent could take one, for a cost. I would think a device like that would be to large for a viper.
    Rumours of rumours??? thats warseer
    "I could have died"! "Looks like you lost this game in the "purchase models" phase."
    Armies that are done: 2k high elves Armies in progress: Skaven, Vampire Counts
    "Alright, your vampire just died. Roll for crumble." "...hah! You've fallen into my trap!..."
    My Eshin spies prevail again.

  14. #34
    Commander Ambience 327's Avatar
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    Re: Codex: Harlequins

    Quote Originally Posted by Vermin-thing View Post
    I doubt that a full fledged Solitaire would be balanced, but a Junior one might be an option. They could be fielded in a squad of 1-3, depending on how many double ones you roll.
    Huh?

    I was just saying that you could make it so that if you made that roll during a campaign (i.e. a linked series of games) you could either buy an ever-so-slightly cheaper Solitaire in future games, or you could "unlock" the Solitaire for future games (assuming you had limited yourself to not taking one until you made such a roll). I won't be doing any cheaper Solitaire options or "Junior Solitaires" for the codex itself.


    Quote Originally Posted by Vermin-thing View Post
    The webway portal could simply be a redux of a drop pod, or spore. Maybe another Type of transport, in line with a falcon, or serpent could take one, for a cost. I would think a device like that would be to large for a viper.
    I think the Webway Portal from Codex: Dark Eldar works just fine as-is. If I choose to add it to the Harlequin codex, it will probably follow that one with little or no modification. The Dark Eldar version is man-portable and allows Raiders and Ravagers to pass through with no issues, so I don't see it as being an issue here.
    *NEW!* Codex: Genestealer Cult (6th Ed) For the Father!
    *NEW!* Codex: Adeptus Arbites (6th Ed) To detect and to purge!
    *NEW!* Codex: Harlequins (6th ed) The Harlequins will have the last laugh!
    Codex: Spyrer Hunting Party Death leaves the Underhive!
    Codex: Exodites The Dragon Knights prepare to charge!

  15. #35
    Commander Ambience 327's Avatar
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    Re: Codex: Harlequins

    New version uploaded today. Here's the update notes:

    - Added on option to include a Webway Portal as a Fast Attack choice. This has been added for the purposes of playtesting, and I make no guarantee that it is balanced yet. It may be kept, it may be removed, it may be changed, the points cost may be adjusted - I really can't say yet. It works almost exactly like the Dark Eldar version, but with a slight change to the wording which I think makes it a little clearer and work just a tiny bit better. Obviously, the fact that it actually takes up a FOC slot changes the decision-making process for including it just a bit.

    -Added the option to upgrade Shadowseers to Veteran Shadowseers. This gives them a bit more survivability, as well as allowing them to join Mimes without removing their ability to Scout, Infiltrate or Outflank.

    -Updated the rules for the Mockingbird's Sonic Cannon to increase the number of hits caused on the unit by +1 for each additional hit rolled. This makes the weapon just a bit more powerful, allowing it to put a few more wounds on a unit as it fires.
    *NEW!* Codex: Genestealer Cult (6th Ed) For the Father!
    *NEW!* Codex: Adeptus Arbites (6th Ed) To detect and to purge!
    *NEW!* Codex: Harlequins (6th ed) The Harlequins will have the last laugh!
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  16. #36
    Chapter Master Whitwort Stormbringer's Avatar
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    Re: Codex: Harlequins

    LOVE this codex, it's really well done! I have only a very small Harlequin force, from back during 3rd edition when GW released the 3rd 3d. codex in Citadel Journal and re-released the models through mail order. This looks like an updated, balanced, cleaned up version of that, in many ways, and I think it's really well executed.

    I don't have a regular group to play with, so I doubt I'll be able to put these rules to the test anytime soon, but kudos for your work all the same.

    I did catch one, tiny little proofreading note: Under the Great Harlequin's entry, he's listed as having a Harlequin's Kiss for his default equipment, which I get the impression is just supposed to be a melee weapon.

    I think the Deciever is a great model to use in a Harlequin army, although fitting him to the list is tough. I agree that a Marionette is the best bet, due to size. I've seen at least a couple of conversions using the Deciever in eldar armies, and I believe one from a Golden Demon competition was titled "Avatar of the Laughing God"

  17. #37
    Commander Ambience 327's Avatar
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    Re: Codex: Harlequins

    Your praise is noted and appreciated.

    The CJ codex was one of the key reference pieces for this codex, so all similarities are intended. And thanks for noticing the gaffe - I indeed intended for the GH to have a CCW, not a Kiss, so I'll make sure that gets updated the next time I upload the codex!

    I feel your pain on not having a regular group to play with. My most frequent opponent is my brother-in-law, who lives 2 hours away. We only get to play when my wife and I visit her family. We play as much as possible (and do lots of playtesting of my various home-brew codex lists) when we get together, but it is usually separated by a month or so of inaction.
    *NEW!* Codex: Genestealer Cult (6th Ed) For the Father!
    *NEW!* Codex: Adeptus Arbites (6th Ed) To detect and to purge!
    *NEW!* Codex: Harlequins (6th ed) The Harlequins will have the last laugh!
    Codex: Spyrer Hunting Party Death leaves the Underhive!
    Codex: Exodites The Dragon Knights prepare to charge!

  18. #38
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    Re: Codex: Harlequins

    Hey I'm doing a Harli theme list for a tournament at the moment, really like this/your codex and intend to play some casual games with it asap.

    I have a few suggestions/ observations I would like to share.

    I love the idea of the marionette and the fluff you came up with for it seems very fitting.

    I can't see why it would be 0-1 though ?

    I do feel that it's nightweaver should have rending, I'm fairly certain spinner weps are going that way when we get a new dex, aaand it is just a ruddy great big harlequins kiss no ?

    I also think giving it fleet would not hurt as it is 0-1 and will get left behind otherwise,plus the fluff you have for them would imply they should be quicker than a stock WL ?

    I can see dj's suffering horribly and dying like victims if someone so much as breathes at them , however I really like the idea and a suitable way of making them harder to kill should be investigated , a simple fix would be to keep them in the squads but give them a rule that allows them to shoot and run at the same time ?

    I also feel they would benefit from being able to buy or coming with crackshot and fastshot ?

    For some reason I feel that the solitaire should maybe be soulless a la the calexus assassin, they seem (at least on paper) very fragile and with their poop strength wont do much by themselves with a max of 12 str 4 power wep attacks he is only going to kill 4 marines on average when he charges if that fails he's screwed.

    I really feel he should be a character/mc/dreddy nemesis especially as it is 0-1 , I suppose charging them at the same target as a troupe may help but I can see them getting shot to bits at first opportunity ......

    I think some kinda VoT type thing is in order maybe making people re-roll successful hits with shooting due to his agility and sheer superhuman speed.

    I think he should have instadeath rending , ie 6's to wound wound automatically and cause ID with no armour saves ( I don't feel that is really OP as eternal warrior is out there and there are just heaps of 3+ and 4+ ward saves around now, means you can realistically hunt characters and MC's more readily not really much good for dreads still.....

    I felt that (again on paper) the GH looks a bit underwhelming to be honest he does not really seem to offer much over a troupe leader , needs to be 4 attacks and WS seven he is the 'great' harlequin after all not the 'slightly better' harlequin.

    I'm not honestly sure I would take either of the mask options either, they seem a bit pants for 15 points a pop given what kinda crazy masks the blood angels have been given I would seriously consider pimping them up a bit as I rekkon quin masks just might be better than anything the mon keigh could cook up in their wildest and drug fueled dreams.

    was wondering if it would be worth making the phase shifter work like a spider JG to teleport in the assault phase ? could help if DJ's could equip them ,then they could phase in and out of cover/LOS , which is a really cool mental image ) (he shimmers into existence guns down a bunch of people then vanishes like smoke in a breeze)

    Just some thoughts for you, I will be playtesting this codex as I really like it and I'll let you know if my thoughts are still the same after a few games.

    Cheers for putting it up )

  19. #39
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    Re: Codex: Harlequins

    Hi there. First off I'd like to say that I like the list a lot having just finished playing my first game with it. I won as a matter of fact, which came as a suprise as I was up against a Thousand Sons army that was almost twice my size and led by Abbadon.

    That said, I'd like to make some suggestions.

    *The Venom costs too much. I know that being able to travel without foot slogging is a boon, but it's too fragile for its cost. 50 points seems fair. Also, upgrade the Acrobatic Dismount to allow a unit to dismount and move if the Venom moves 6".

    *Put me in the "the Great Harlequin needs to be boosted" camp. One extra attack should do it stat wise. I think the masks need tweaking a bit as well. My suggestion would be to make the dread mask cause a unit to take their Ld test on 3D6 for losing combat. The Rictus mask should force the enemy to take a pinning test modified by the combat resolution (both negitive and positive) when using hit and run. Obviously Fearless Units would be immune to both.

    *The High Shadowseer should have his psychic powers included in his cost (no other army's psykers have to pay), though a slight points increase would be required however. Also Conceal is a bit crap. Perhaps make it confir Stealth to a unit within 12"? Alternatively you could drop all the psychic powers from the Highseer and give him an 12" area effect Veil of Tears, much like the IG Lord Commissar and his aura of discipline. His current points level should be sufficient for this option.

    *There are a few things I'd change with the Marionette. First off give it "Fleet" and possibly "Dance of Death" too. I doubt it would be game breaking and would keep the army flowing as a whole. The weapon options could be better as well. The Night Weaver should be: Template S5 Rending and cost 10 points. The Fusion Pistol option should be changed for a Bright Lance at 20 points as the Marionette will just assault and cut up vehicles if its in the pistols range anyway. The Bright Lance wouldn't ruin the theme of the army either, just give it a small boost in one of it's weakest areas. As it stands now, any list you run won't be able to scratch a half decent 'mech army.

    *Move Aspirants to Troops but keep them as a 0-1 option. Having them as elites makes about as much sense as having IG Conscripts as elites. This gives them a role in the army as objective holders or meat shields.

    *Move Mimes to elites to take the place of Aspirants. They are specialist troops after all.

    *The Solitaire seems ok rules wise, but is a bit too vunerable. Giving him Eternal Warrior would help to prevent him being one-shotted by heavy weaponry and give him the chance to survive beyond its first combat with anything containg a powerfist. Mass fire and overwhelming numbers should be his weakness, not lucky lascannon shots.

    *Death Jesters should have suspensors as standard. I wouldn't have a problem with their low survivability if they at least stuck with the fast moving theme of the rest of the army.
    Last edited by djinn8; 30-03-2010 at 23:27. Reason: Edited as I think of new things.

  20. #40
    Commander Ambience 327's Avatar
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    Re: Codex: Harlequins

    Wow, that's a lot of info to go through and digest. Glad to see people taking an interest in my work!


    Quote Originally Posted by kraken View Post
    Hey I'm doing a Harli theme list for a tournament at the moment, really like this/your codex and intend to play some casual games with it asap.

    I have a few suggestions/ observations I would like to share.
    Fire away!

    Quote Originally Posted by kraken View Post
    I love the idea of the marionette and the fluff you came up with for it seems very fitting.

    I can't see why it would be 0-1 though ?

    I do feel that it's nightweaver should have rending, I'm fairly certain spinner weps are going that way when we get a new dex, aaand it is just a ruddy great big harlequins kiss no ?

    I also think giving it fleet would not hurt as it is 0-1 and will get left behind otherwise,plus the fluff you have for them would imply they should be quicker than a stock WL ?
    I want these to be rare and special. They are rumored to be controlled by the Laughing god himself, so a Harlequin Masque would be fortunate indeed to have one accompany them to battle. To have more than one following a single Great Harlequin is probably pretty much unheard of. Therefore, 0-1 they shall remain.

    The Nightweaver was, as you've no doubt noticed, based on the Shadow Weaver from the Eldar Codex. One of the primary goals in my rendition of the Harlequin Codex was to retain as much consistency with Codex: Eldar as possible while giving the Harlequins a flavor and style uniquely their own. If, when the Eldar Codex is eventually updated, the Shadow Weaver becomes a Rending Weapon, then the Nightweaver certainly will as well. However, I'm not sure it will. They are AP- weapons now, why would they suddenly gain the ability to completely bypass armour? I could see an argument for the Rending aspect representing the monofilaments finding a soft spot, but I don't really think they will go that way. The Harlequin's Kiss has Rending, in my opinion, to represent the chance of the Harlequins themselves finding a chink in the enemy's armour. If you know the description of the Kiss from the 2nd Edition Eldar Codex, you can easily imagine the result of such skill...

    I never even considered giving the Marionette Fleet. I suppose that would be an interesting option. It would certainly make for some real choices to be made as you advance. Do you go for the somewhat closer unit that you can flash with the Nightweaver and then charge, or do you Run towards the more distant unit sitting on the objective, hoping to get within Charge range? I will definitely think about it...

    Quote Originally Posted by kraken View Post
    I can see dj's suffering horribly and dying like victims if someone so much as breathes at them , however I really like the idea and a suitable way of making them harder to kill should be investigated , a simple fix would be to keep them in the squads but give them a rule that allows them to shoot and run at the same time ?

    I also feel they would benefit from being able to buy or coming with crackshot and fastshot ?
    Yeah, as mentioned in the discussions above, the Death Jesters really are glass cannons. They can tear the enemy apart with their numerous shooting options, but if they attract too much attention, they are toast. I don't think I want to go down the route of letting them Run & Gun - that just pushes it a bit too far I think. They can already take Suspensors, which allow them to voluntarily go all Slow and Purposeful for the heavier guns.

    The idea to give them Crack Shot and/or Fast Shot options is interesting, but again I don't know if I want to go there. They don't really suffer from being ineffective shooters, just from survivability issues. Maybe if I put normal DJ's into squads, but make the Veteran DJ a single character (rather than a 1-3 per choice deal), he might have options for various skills.


    Quote Originally Posted by kraken View Post
    For some reason I feel that the solitaire should maybe be soulless a la the calexus assassin, they seem (at least on paper) very fragile and with their poop strength wont do much by themselves with a max of 12 str 4 power wep attacks he is only going to kill 4 marines on average when he charges if that fails he's screwed.

    I really feel he should be a character/mc/dreddy nemesis especially as it is 0-1 , I suppose charging them at the same target as a troupe may help but I can see them getting shot to bits at first opportunity ......

    I think some kinda VoT type thing is in order maybe making people re-roll successful hits with shooting due to his agility and sheer superhuman speed.

    I think he should have instadeath rending , ie 6's to wound wound automatically and cause ID with no armour saves ( I don't feel that is really OP as eternal warrior is out there and there are just heaps of 3+ and 4+ ward saves around now, means you can realistically hunt characters and MC's more readily not really much good for dreads still.....

    The Solitaire already has a "Spiritless" rule that represents his unique nature. The way I see it, it isn't that he has no soul, but that his soul's final destination is basically already known, which gives him the strength of will to resist all manner of psychology and psychic power.

    I do agree, however, that he is a bit underwhelming in the close combat department. He doesn't seem to need any help damaging normal troops, or even elite assault troops, but he does have a bit of trouble bringing down the bigger characters. I am thinking of giving him some kind of weapon option that will allow Instant Death and/or ignoring Invulnerable Saves.

    Quote Originally Posted by kraken View Post
    I felt that (again on paper) the GH looks a bit underwhelming to be honest he does not really seem to offer much over a troupe leader , needs to be 4 attacks and WS seven he is the 'great' harlequin after all not the 'slightly better' harlequin.

    I'm not honestly sure I would take either of the mask options either, they seem a bit pants for 15 points a pop given what kinda crazy masks the blood angels have been given I would seriously consider pimping them up a bit as I rekkon quin masks just might be better than anything the mon keigh could cook up in their wildest and drug fueled dreams.
    I haven't had the good fortune to see the Blood Angel Codex yet, but I am now thinking about working on some changes to the Great Harlequin's Masks. Maybe after I get a look at the BA stuff, I might get some good ideas.

    Quote Originally Posted by kraken View Post
    was wondering if it would be worth making the phase shifter work like a spider JG to teleport in the assault phase ? could help if DJ's could equip them ,then they could phase in and out of cover/LOS , which is a really cool mental image ) (he shimmers into existence guns down a bunch of people then vanishes like smoke in a breeze)
    Hmmm.... Maybe, just maybe... Perhaps only for the DJ though. This one requires careful consideration, to be certain. The Phase Shifter is a controversial piece of gear to begin with - I have to make sure it isn't overpowered, or so expensive that it becomes a point sink.

    Quote Originally Posted by kraken View Post
    Just some thoughts for you, I will be playtesting this codex as I really like it and I'll let you know if my thoughts are still the same after a few games.

    Cheers for putting it up )
    Thank you very much for your input. Let me know how things fare with the current rules, and I'll be working on revisions as I am able.




    Quote Originally Posted by djinn8 View Post
    Hi there. First off I'd like to say that I like the list a lot having just finished playing my first game with it. I won as a matter of fact, which came as a suprise as I was up against a Thousand Sons army that was almost twice my size and led by Abbadon.
    Nice, and congratulations! Each Harlequin really is worth quite a bit in terms of what they can deal with, so I'm not surprised that they can bring down an enemy force nearly twice their size.

    Quote Originally Posted by djinn8 View Post
    That said, I'd like to make some suggestions.
    Be my guest.

    Quote Originally Posted by djinn8 View Post
    *The Venom costs too much. I know that being able to travel without foot slogging is a boon, but it's too fragile for its cost. 50 points seems fair. Also, upgrade the Acrobatic Dismount to allow a unit to dismount and move if the Venom moves 6".
    You did notice that it has built-in Holo Fields, yes? That upgrade alone is worth quite a bit, especially for such a fragile vehicle. I might consider bringing it down in price a bit, but I think 50 points is taking it too far.

    Also, I think Acrobatic Dismount is fine as-is, since it is similar in function to the air-drop rule carried by Imperial Valkyries (although it can't be used with Flat Out, but it doesn't suffer from the chance of damaging the dismounting squad), with the added benefit of reducing the negative effects of having their transport shot out from under them. Note that the Harlequins are still free to Shoot (or Run) and Assault as normal, since the Venom is open-topped. That already gives you a potential Assault range of 26" (12"move + 2" disembark + 6" run + 6" charge). I really don't think we need to extend that by another 6" here.

    Quote Originally Posted by djinn8 View Post
    *Put me in the "the Great Harlequin needs to be boosted" camp. One extra attack should do it stat wise. I think the masks need tweaking a bit as well. My suggestion would be to make the dread mask cause a unit to take their Ld test on 3D6 for losing combat. The Rictus mask should force the enemy to take a pinning test modified by the combat resolution (both negitive and positive) when using hit and run. Obviously Fearless Units would be immune to both.
    As mentioned above, I am leaning towards buffing him a bit. I'm looking at the masks in particular, and will take your ideas under advisement. The idea of Pinning a unit when you Hit & Run is certainly interesting, and worth consideration at the very least.

    Quote Originally Posted by djinn8 View Post
    *The High Shadowseer should have his psychic powers included in his cost (no other armies psykers have to pay). Also Conceal is a bit crap. Perhaps make it confir Stealth to a unit within 12"? This would require a slight points cost however. Alternativly you could drop all the psychic powers from the Highseer and give him an 12" area effect Veil of Tears, much like the IG Lord Commissar and his aura of discipline. His current points level should be sufficient for this option.
    Last time I looked, the Eldar Farseer has the option of taking 1-4 Psychic Powers, and the Warlocks have to take 1, both at an additional points cost. The idea, I believe, is letting you tailor your psyker to the role(s) in which you want to use them, without spending extra points on abilities and gear that you don't want or need for their role(s).

    Conceal is lifted straight from the Eldar Codex, and is intended primarily for use on the Aspirant Ensemble, though it can also be quite useful when you are facing things like Grey Knights whose Psycannons ignore your Harlequins' Invulnerable Saves. I might be persuaded to alter it to a new power, however, which confers Stealth as you suggest, though that would make it less effective for protecting Aspirants in the open, it would make it even better for helping all units in general if they are in cover. Consider it under advisement.

    An AOE version of Veil of Tears is also an interesting idea. I might play with that a bit as well and see where it takes me. However, it is already possible to get Veil on any unit you want, since the Shadowseers and the High Shadowseer are Independent Characters. I am thinking, however, of putting the non-veteran Shadowseers and Death Jesters back into the units (they would go to Harlequins, Mimes and Jetbikers), and leaving the Veterans as single, Independent Character choices in the Elites/Heavy Support slots. If I go that route, the AOE VoT would be almost pointless.

    Quote Originally Posted by djinn8 View Post
    *There are a few things I'd change with the Marionette. First off give it "Dance of Death" and "Fleet". I doubt it would be game breaking and would keep the army flowing as a whole. The weapon options could be better as well. The Night Weaver should be: Template S5 Rending and cost 10 points. The Fusion Pistol option should be changed for a Bright Lance at 20 points as the Marionette will just assault and cut up vehicles if its in the pistols range anyway.
    Hmm... I was coming off of the Wraithlord, and trying to make it just a little more nimble, but I may not have gone far enough. I never even considered giving it the Dance of Death and Fleet abilities. I am definitely doing so now.

    I explained above why I don't think Rending is appropriate for the Nightweaver. S6 AP- makes it brutal to things like Orks (hit a bunch of models, wound on 2+, bound to kill a few unless they have real armour), and not completely useless against MEQs (hit several models, wound on 2+, bound to have one or two fail a save if you hit enough).

    Quote Originally Posted by djinn8 View Post
    *Move Aspirants to Troops but keep them as a 0-1 option. Having them as elites makes about as much sense as having IG Conscripts as elites. This gives them a role in the army as objective holders or meat shields.
    I put them where they are because I consider them a bit outside the Masque. They are training and preparing to undertake the Ritual, but they are not there yet. Being that this training is a dangerous time for them, they are not relied upon for holding ground or capturing objectives. Nothing stops them from being used as a meat shield, and in effect being a 0-1 choice and the only viable meat shield in an army of warriors who would be Elites in any other list puts them in rather a special place.

    The way I see it, an Elites choice should fill a niche in the army that you don't really have access to otherwise. The Aspirants can throw a lot of low strength shots downrange, and they can form a large squad which can take quite a bit of punishment. That is a unique aspect in the Harlequin list, and thus they take their place in the Elites section.

    Quote Originally Posted by djinn8 View Post
    *The Solitaire seems ok rules wise, but is a bit too vunerable. Giving him Eternal Warrior would help to prevent him being one-shotted by heavy weaponry and give it the chance to survive beyond its first combat with anything containg a powerfist.
    Eternal War-now why didn't I think of that? He's got the patronage of the bloody Laughing god himself, he fears nothing, not even death, because his soul is already forfeit. Why wouldn't he, among all of the Harlequins, have EW? I know it is thrown about fairly loosely these days, but I think it really fits him. Now, to figure out if, and by how much, it should increase his cost...

    Quote Originally Posted by djinn8 View Post
    *Death Jesters should have suspensors as standard. I wouldn't have a problem with their low survivability if they at least stuck with the fast moving theme of the rest of the army.
    Suspensors is an option for the heavier weapons, allowing me to keep them a bit cheaper if you choose not to include it. If I gave it to them as a standard item, its points would be wasted with Assault weapons. One thing I try to keep in mind is how the list caters to lower-point games, such as 500 points or so, or even down to Combat Patrol's 400 points. Shaving a few points here and there can really help you squeeze what you need into a small army like that, but not having the option makes that more difficult.
    *NEW!* Codex: Genestealer Cult (6th Ed) For the Father!
    *NEW!* Codex: Adeptus Arbites (6th Ed) To detect and to purge!
    *NEW!* Codex: Harlequins (6th ed) The Harlequins will have the last laugh!
    Codex: Spyrer Hunting Party Death leaves the Underhive!
    Codex: Exodites The Dragon Knights prepare to charge!

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