Tactica: Ogre Kingdoms

[Kadrium]

So, effectively, Ogres should play MSU with flanking / combined charges instead of trying to get fear-autobreaking with single units?

I admit it does make even more sense with the advent of 7th edition and the loss of any possibility of having ranks.

Precisely. It would take 8-10 ogres to cement your chances of outnumbering an opponent unit. Even naked bulls will run you well over 300 points to field in such numbers, and Ironguts nearly 500. Considering a Tyrant and 3 butchers will take ~ 800 points to field, you would only be able to afford to field 2 or 3 units of 8-10 ogres. If you think you can win a 2k game with 3 units on the board, I'd love to see the battle report.

Plus, just having greater numbers does not mean you autobreak, you must actually win the combat as well. With how outnumbered your units will be, you'll be getting flanked and that sort of thing, and not winning any combats.

Its not as hard to end up outnumbering cavalry, so smaller elite units are the sort of things we can autobreak. For block infantry, the most reliable method of breaking them is to flank and negate their rank bonus, and get as many ogres in B2B to maximize your wound output and win through that method.

I don´t think Skragg has been mentioned yet. I know many of you don´t like Special Characters, but our club seems not to be against them. So how about replacing the Tyrant with Skragg, who is tough as nails (T6, Regeneration) as well as deadly (6 attacks with S5, Killing Blow) as well as a great Slaughtermaster. The only potential problem being Frenzy. Thoughts?

Skragg is definately the most useful of the two special characters in the Army Book. He's fairly solid, is the only way you can field a lv4 wizard in a game under 3k, and the extra gorgers he lets you take are really fun. If he gets into combat quickly and doesn't get shot up, he can really turn into quite a killing machine.

I personally feel that a more standardized 2k list is "better" but its certainly debatable, and people on the Ogre Stronghold have had moderate success with Skragg lists at GTs.

[Glabro]

It´s true, a basic Tyrant with a Great Weapon along with a Butcher with the Tenderizer (or two scrolls) make for a nice combo that costs the same amount of points.

If you´re using Bull Rhinoxen, you lose out on Gorgers but get to use another two-man Leadbelcher unit by doing this, however.

[Kadrium]

Blech, why on earth would you give a butcher a Tenderiser? I don't think he can even take it.

[Glabro]

Why not? And of course he can take it, same as you´ve seen people take a Siegebreaker for a Butcher.

The reason? Well, why do you take a Tenderiser for the Tyrant? To kill characters, of course, or challenge Champions.

But they are only Butchers, I hear you cry? Yes, but a Butcher with a Tenderiser still has 3 attacks at S6, just like any proper fighting hero in other armies, and with D3 wounds per wounding hit, it´s enough to take on most characters, especially when you consider the Butcher´s superhuman toughness of 5 and 4 wounds.

[chaos-nightwing]

The list is generally okay i must say if the gnoblars asre in it.
for my experience of playing orges, i always like to put them in a small units so the can flank the infantries. the most decent thing about it is that they can bull charge and the mostly get all the attack back in , which is really good in comparison to one wound troops as is one of them die, the lost one attack back. In orges, even if u two lost two wounds, a orge still give three attack.

[javaguru]

I'm just starting Ogre Kingdoms and I've been doing tactics research all over the web. I've concluded that two minimum sized units of bulls and two units of gnoblars and one unit of trappers is going to be my foundation. A tyrant and maxed Butchers also seem the way to go. I also plan on two gorgers as my rare choices....

[Kadrium]

Chop at least one of those units of gnoblar fighters.

For a 2k army core, go something like:

Tyrant
3x Butchers

2x3 Bulls, naked w/ bellowers
3x3 Ironguts w/ standards & lookouts
1x8-10 trappers
2x1 Gorgers

This is pretty much the things you need to be successful. From here up to 2k or higher, flesh out with more ironguts, leadbelchers, yhetees, a scraplauncher, gnoblar fighters, or whatever else suits your fancy.

1 unit of 21 fighters is enough at 2k.
Field leadbelchers in units of 2 w/ bellower.
Yhetees in units of 3.
1 Scraplauncher is plenty.

Between Yhetees, Leadbelchers, and the scrappy, you'll have the points to field at most 2 of the 3 options. If you go heavier on ironguts, you may only be able to fit in one of the special unit choices.

[Malorian]

What I do at 2000 (and is VERY effective) is:

Bruiser w/ heavy armor, tenderiser, sword gnoblar (extra points)
butcher w/ bang stick
butcher w/ dispell scroll
3X3 ironguts
4X3 bulls w/ extra hand weapon
2X3 bulls
6X20 gnoblars
2X gorger

Basically the gnoblars are in a long line with alternating bulls w/ extra hand weapons and ironguts behind them. The naked bulls first are deployed to deal with skirmishers and then fill in the line where needed.

I slowly move up with the gnoblars absorbing the arrows and magic, and about the time my gorgers are setup to charge, I'm at their lines with almolst all my ogres.

Like Kadrium said, the MSU way is the best way to go. There's a fellow at the bunker here that likes taking huge units with full command, and it just doesn't work.

[Chris_Tzeentch]

Noone has said it, but gorgers are simply a wonderful buy. When they come in, they really screw up your opponent's plan. I have found the banner bearer works well in a unit of maneaters. Give him a couple of thiefstones instead of a magic banner and you have a stubborn unit that can reroll its break tests, and is protected from magic.

I am new to Ogre Kingdoms, but from the research I have done, two gorgers are a big problem for most opponents to deal with.

The majority of Ogre Kingdom armies which have done well at tournies seem to have the following attributes :-

MSU approach
3 Butchers
Plenty of Ironguts
Minimum of Bulls
Gnoblar trappers (the only Gnoblar unit)
Gorgers or Rhinox Riders

Yhetees seem to be fairly popular too.

Would anyone agree/disagree?

[Malorian]

I don't think a wise OK player will go magic heavy. Thanks to our spells being harder to cast as we go along, it's hard to really overpower an opponent.

Ironguts are great, but with all the gunlines and warmachines out there 48 points per model is a bit much, so you need more bulls to even it out and give you the numbers.

Gnoblars (regular) are the only realy way to reliably beat a gunline.

I would never take rhinox riders to a tournament as they would be killed so quickly you might as well not put it on. Although it does make you army look better and increase your soft scores...

Yhetees are popular, but it more has to do with their look rather than their effectiveness.

[Voodoo Boyz]

I'm probably starting Ogres in the New Year, and here's my question:

Why do people love Gnoblar Trappers? What exactly do they do for you? March Block? I don't see them as a way to kill Warmachine crews, what do you really use them for?

[Revlid]

I'm probably starting Ogres in the New Year, and here's my question:

Why do people love Gnoblar Trappers? What exactly do they do for you? March Block? I don't see them as a way to kill Warmachine crews, what do you really use them for?

Killing Warmachines and Harassing Fast Cavalry - the things that really give Ogres stress.

And cheap, highly mobile and easily killable units are never a bad thing ever.

[Voodoo Boyz]

Killing Warmachines and Harassing Fast Cavalry - the things that really give Ogres stress.

And cheap, highly mobile and easily killable units are never a bad thing ever.

But they're WS2, S2....how do they kill anything? Shooting? That's S2 as well though, worse at killing crew.

Harassing Fast Cav I can see being something decent, but I figure something like Leadbelchers would be better suited to stopping those things that wanted to get around to my flanks.

[mightygnoblar]

in addition to the usuall approach of msu (which is definetly the best way to play orge kingdoms in my opinion) another way to play is to take one massive unit. (im thinking along the lines of 10 bulls, mabe even bigger)
Now in this unit you place a tyrant with kineater and 3 theif stones to make them highly magic resistant, now after this use the usual msu units and place them behind the big unit which can make a very effective screen for the rest of the army

[Mercules]

in addition to the usuall approach of msu (which is definetly the best way to play orge kingdoms in my opinion) another way to play is to take one massive unit. (im thinking along the lines of 10 bulls, mabe even bigger)
Now in this unit you place a tyrant with kineater and 3 theif stones to make them highly magic resistant, now after this use the usual msu units and place them behind the big unit which can make a very effective screen for the rest of the army

And it dies to a Unit of Clanrats which has more Static CR for about a third(if that) the price.

You have
Rank + 1
Standard +1
Outnumber +1

He has
Rank +3
Standard +1

WS is the same. You are going to wound more and his armor saves will be 6+ if he has a shield and hand weapon. You have none unless you spend even more on the Bulls. Basically you are going to do about as many wounds as you take except on a charge(good luck with screening slaves and nearby weaponteams).

Most likely you are rolling against an 8 even with the re-roll about 12% of the time you are going to fail and have to worry about his 2d6 being higher than your 2d6.

"Deathstar" formations are powerful, but usually have a fatal flaw.

[mightygnoblar]

it would actually have no ranks as im thinking a pure 12 wide shield here, the point of it is not to win combat all by itself (in fact once the unit gets in position it is best off stay out of the thick of it for VP denial) the point of it is to take the majority of fire off the 3+ units that will be hiding behind it, it gives orges a chance against gunlines and magic heavy list by ensuring that most of your units will get there unscathed.
Im not saying that it is unbeatable, it is just an interesting tactic that can work to good effect especially if you use it in good sync with the rest of your army (in which i normally field around 1000pts of pure msu bulls, ironguts and lead belchers)

[Malorian]

or you could save a butt loads of points and do it with gnoblars...

[mightygnoblar]

again this is a valid tactic however from experince i have found that they often slow you up too much and have a bad habit of bickering right when you dont want them to, using more orges does not sacrifice the speed of your army, also the gnoblars are far less resilient to panic, and magic

[Malorian]

I take 120 gnoblars at 2000 and it works great. Sure you move slower but you still wipe the floor with your opponent in the last couple of turns. If they bicker you do you best to work around it (I run 1 unit of gnoblars for each unit of ogres to it doesn't slow the line)

I'd say it makes you more resilient to panic and magic because you can take more wounds before you need to make a test and have more wounds in general to soak up magic. Also if they flee they don't make units around them test.

Add on top of this a unit to bait or absorb charges, and great units for taking on large targets and these guys are perfect.

You just need to have the will to wait a couple of turns before you get into combat.

[mightygnoblar]

i do see your point and i agree that gnobalrs can be very effective in the roles that you have described and i tend to make extensive use of them myself (you cant really go wrong with 200pts for 100 models in my oppinion), however using them in this way somewhat changes the overall tactics of the army from a quick "get into the opponents face" list to a list that is more comparable to horde goblins.
the tatic that i describe is just another way to play the army and one that may be appealing to people who dont like gnoblars, it also has some strengths over your formation, for example yours will be far more susceptable to war machines like stone throwers which can bypass the gnoblar wall