Warhammer 1942

[Konstantine]

As the title reads, I am trying to turn the Warhammer 40K into a 2000 Point World War 2 games. My friend wants to start, but wants us to start fresh too, therefore, me being a Veteran in our little group, has to tweak some of rules so the game is different.

So far I have a "Army List" for the Germans. Please check this out and help me out. I would like it if some of you Seasoned Warseer members to help out (:
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Version 1 (Outdated)
Warhammer 1942 Rules
Army List
German
Complete Reorganization V3.1
German Rules and Army List
United States
US Rules and Army List
Russia
Russia Rules and Army List
Japan
Revised
Japanese Rules and Army List
Britain
British Army List and Rules
Italy
Italy Army List and Rules
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VERSION 2 (Outdated)

Operation WW2 Rules

German List
Wehrmacht Infantry Company
Wehrmacht Panzer Company
Luftwaffe Company

UPDATE - Had been working on a new engine after so many people disliked the original concept of the project. Although some parts may seem similar to Warhammer, there are only so many concepts wargaming can lead to before they overlap. Enjoy and I will constantly be putting in more updates.
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A new engine has been rewritten starting on Page 7, this is based on rules written by our very own Lanrak.

-Calvin

[Ozorik]

Warhammer panzer battles

Edit Rules here

Flames of war

In fairness these rules were written by Phil Yates who went on to co-create and develop FoW.

[Odin]

1942? You're only planning to cover the last 3 years of the war then...?

[Lyynark]

Oh lord, why base a WW2 game on the 5th edition? While it seems to "work" for the type of battles in 40k it does not lend itself well to the fighting that occured during WW2.

Go play FoW or ASL instead.

[Ozorik]

He is from Canada so I would expect that he knows the war started in 1939

[Lyynark]

Well, the early parts of the war was rather one-sided. Who would like to replay the invasion of Poland as the polish? Or who would like to play the french during the invasion of France.

[Ozorik]

One sided strategically but not tactically. There is a lot of scope for wargaming at company level and below.

[Odin]

One sided strategically but not tactically. There is a lot of scope for wargaming at company level and below.

And of course rearguard actions and last stands can make for pretty good scenarios.

And don't forget, for a lot of people the war started even earlier than 1939. The Chinese were fighting off the Japanese invasion long before that.

Anyway, enough of my pedantry. Not sure it's the best system for WWII, but it wouldn't be the worst either.

[Konstantine]

We choose 1942 because we wanted both sides to have a tactical advantage. Why not FOW? Because I love the Warhammer 40k system. Its easily tweakable so no FOW for me I'm sticking with the Warhammer system.

-Calvin

[Condottiere]

2000 points sounds like a reinforced company, or the WWII equivalent of a Task Group. The Germans also did some radical force reorganization in 1943, I believe.

[Llew]

And don't forget, for a lot of people the war started even earlier than 1939. The Chinese were fighting off the Japanese invasion long before that.

You can't really count it as the start of a "world" war until a reasonable portion of the whole world is involved. That'd be like having a "world championship" game for a sport, say American football, without having any other countries represented in the competition. That'd just be silly.

As far as using 40k to make a WWII game though...it seems like a lot of trouble to go to in order to make a game that won't really feel like WWII combat. If you can pull it off though, more power to you.

[Max Jet]

I'm gonna kill you if you forget Poland.

[Commissar von Toussaint]

Epic fail.

[Konstantine]

2000 points sounds like a reinforced company, or the WWII equivalent of a Task Group. The Germans also did some radical force reorganization in 1943, I believe.

With the point system in my head at the moment, 2000 Points would be roughly a 500-700 Point Imperial Guard army.

You can't really count it as the start of a "world" war until a reasonable portion of the whole world is involved. That'd be like having a "world championship" game for a sport, say American football, without having any other countries represented in the competition. That'd just be silly.

As far as using 40k to make a WWII game though...it seems like a lot of trouble to go to in order to make a game that won't really feel like WWII combat. If you can pull it off though, more power to you.

Yes I understand the system will be hard to play with. I plan to tweak some of the rules so it suits WW2 more.

I'm gonna kill you if you forget Poland.

Don't worry, Its still in developing stage. Hopefully some of YOU guys out there decide to help me.

Epic fail.

People like you are inspirations for me to work harder. Thank You.

-Calvin

[Ozorik]

Did you look at the link that I posted? The work has already been done. It may well need changes for 5th ed but nothing drastic

[Konstantine]

Yes, I saw your link. I was on the verge of using it, but my buddy wanted us to start from scratch and make our own unique game. Thats the plan at the moment. We might incorporate parts of Warhammer Panzer Battles into this.

-Calvin

[Konstantine]

Updated! Japanese Army List

-Calvin

[Commissar von Toussaint]

People like you are inspirations for me to work harder. Thank You.

-Calvin

Given that:

1. The current engine of 40k doesn't really work for WW II and
2. Someone else already did it,

I can only salute you for your determination. Good luck.

[Lyynark]

Yes, I saw your link. I was on the verge of using it, but my buddy wanted us to start from scratch and make our own unique game. Thats the plan at the moment. We might incorporate parts of Warhammer Panzer Battles into this.

-Calvin

Unique game? it's not really unique if all you do is re-skin 40k to a WW2 setting. Starting from scratch means just that, starting from absolutely nothing.

I'm Toussaint on this one, go play Panzer battles or FoW instead. Or at the very least, make a unique game from scratch.

[Veag]

Unique game? it's not really unique if all you do is re-skin 40k to a WW2 setting. Starting from scratch means just that, starting from absolutely nothing.

I'm Toussaint on this one, go play Panzer battles or FoW instead. Or at the very least, make a unique game from scratch.

Well, sure, those are better games, but he didn't ask "what game should I play instead of making up my own rules set?" did he?

Alright, so, my 2c (or should that be 1.9 cents, considering the exchange rate?)

Is there any reason for the German command squad to have higher Wounds and Toughness that their Japanese equivalent? You've also given German units higher Leadership. While, sure, the Germans are known for having their elite units be very elite, I think that it might be better represented in their armor and Ballistic Skill. The Japanese army may have had what we would consider terrible morale and discipline, they are most famous for their fanaticism (well, second most after warcrimes). There are fairly few documented instances of them surrendering or falling back, and that is exactly the sort of thing Leadership in the Warhammer system represents. For that matter there are enough anecdotal accounts of Japanese soldiers refusing to give up even when suffering life threatening injury that I can't think of any reason why they deserve extra Toughness or Wounds any less than the Germans do.

For that matter, why do Japanese soldiers have the same 5+ save as the Germans? In Fantasy 5+ is heavy armor, in 40k, it is something equivalent to modern ballistic armor. The only armor Japanese troops had as far as I know was a helmet stamped out of a single, thin, inferior grade piece of metal. This isn't the kind of armor that could realistically stop even a low powered round, even if they were so unlucky as to be hit in the head by it. And I can't find very many pictures of troops actually wearing the damned thing. I think you would be hard pressed to justify even a 6+ save.

Also, I know that the Japanese army made a good sniper rifle, but they really aren't 'famous' for their snipers, while so many other forces in that period were, and didn't rely on their snipers while so many other forces did. I would be inclined to leave them out just for the sake of making your armies less identical. If that offends the descendants of any famous Japanese snipers, too bad for them. Err... wait, maybe it's better not to offend any famous snipers... But the point stands. In a game like this you can easily find you are making all armies the exact same, you get: basic infantry, veterans, snipers, command squad, transports, and armor. If you go out of your way to focus on what makes each army unique or what it is most famed for, I think you will find you have a more interesting system.

So, my next point. What do you mean by “Kamakazi” troops? I think that might be a little inappropriate. Not that I think it will offend anyone, but I think you may have the wrong spelling, wrong word, and wrong idea here. I think you've mixed a few different things together here, and you need to sort them out. Kamikaze (“divine wind”) is the tactic of using an airplane as if it were a manned missile. Tennōheika banzai! (“May the Emperor reign ten thousand years!”) is a battle cry, a Banzai Charge is an informal name given to the style of suicidal charge the Japanese army was well known for. Note that a suicidal charge is not the same as a suicide bomb. It means to charge the enemy when you know you have a very good chance of getting killed, not to blow your self up to kill the enemy. Gyokusai (“jade shatters”) is the proper name of the Banzai Charge. Bushidō is the philosophy that made people think that a Banzai Charge was a good idea, often even when they had enough ammo, cover, tactical advantage, and no good reason to charge. Someone had the idea that getting killed “for the Emperor” while charing into close combat was more noble than staying in cover and actually winning the battle. Space Marines also seem to have this idea. Also note that a Bonsai Charge would be an even worse idea. Spelling is an important thing some times. Seppuku (“stomach cutting”) is ritual suicide to avoid capture or to avoid the same of defeat. You might also be thinking of the tendency the Japanese army to use grenades at dangerously short range, or even use them on themselves as a sort of explosive Seppuku. Although I'm sure some soldiers blew themselves up intentionally once in a while, this has more to do with being dangerously unskilled in grenade use and having a lack of concern for self preservation. Most armies wouldn't actually consider using grenades while charging (except in 40k) as there is a good chance you will harm yourself with shrapnel and grenades (if anyone had trained you properly, anyways) are fairly effective at long range. Of course in a suicide charge, things like worrying about your safety and saving grenades for latter do go out the window. Anyways, my point is that I've never heard of Japanese army suicide bombers – but maybe I've just never heard about it. I think it would be a much better idea if you made Gyokusai an army wide special rule. You know, something more along the lines of the Furious Charge or the Black Templar's Holy Rage. And I do think it should confer some sort of bonus. I know that may not be realistic for a reckless charge into automatic weapons fire to be a good idea, but in a historical game I think that it having been widely done in reality should be a good enough reason to encourage the player to do it.

On a less historically important note, I think that the Japanese wargear section should include a katana or shin guntō. I believe that it was expected that officers have one. Sure, I have no idea how common it actually was that they actually get used, but again, I think this is a case where it would do a lot to help make the army unique, and besides the rule of cool simply demands that they be included. Not to mention that the ability to put a Power Weapon equivalent on your sergeants would make suicidal charges a slightly more viable tactic. Just for the sake of making armies more different, even. In most armies of the era, swords, bayonets, and cavalry were considered obsolete. Going in the face of that is part of what makes the Japanese army unique.

Related to that, I see you included German cavalry. Yes, Germany did field some cavalry in the second world war, but I hope that you don't intend to make it a unit that every army has – it was mostly a Polish thing, and their army wasn't in very good shape in 1942. If you ask me, rule of cool is also a good enough excuse to include Poland, Italy, and France as they were before their respective defeats, even if you seem to be focused on the later years.