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Thread: Captains, Command Squads and Drop Pods

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    Chapter Master Pooky's Avatar
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    Captains, Command Squads and Drop Pods

    These questions are going to sound really lame, but I have heard differing opinions recently...

    Can a Captain in Terminator armor use a Drop Pod?
    For example, can Lysander and his Command Squad use a Drop Pod? I always thought he could but then I was challenged to prove it. I haven't seen anywhere that says he CAN'T but I haven't seen anywhere either that says he CAN.

    Is a Captain's Command Squad a 'Retinue'?
    I thought the Command Squad was treated as another squad (eg like a Tactical Squad) in all respects except it doesn't use any FOC slots. I was then told he CAN'T leave the squad. On top of that I was told that the Command Squad was a RETINUE and hence means the Captain can't be targetted in assault.

    So, what is your take WS?
    Last edited by Pooky; 14-02-2010 at 22:52.

  2. #2
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    Re: Captains, Command Squads and Drop Pods

    Command Squads and Honor Guards can take Drop Pods as transports; IC's can join these squads, and therefore use their transports.

    The current SM codex does not call Command Squads and Honor Guards retinues; some older books use this rule, but SM's do not anymore.

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    Chapter Master IJW's Avatar
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    Re: Captains, Command Squads and Drop Pods

    Retinue - politely ask the person telling you this to point out where in the SM codex it states this.

    Terminator in Drop Pod - the closest you are going to get is the last paragraph on p102, where it says that Termiantors can't fit in Rhinos or Razorbacks, but makes no mention of Drop Pods. Then add in a side order of SW Wolf Guard being able to take Drop Pods.

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    Chapter Master shin'keiro's Avatar
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    Re: Captains, Command Squads and Drop Pods

    [QUOTE=Pooky;4392492]These questions are going to sound really lame, but I have heard differing opinions recently...

    Can a Captain in Terminator armor use a Drop Pod?

    NO - terminators in the SM Codex cannot use drop pods

    Is the Captains Command Squads a 'Retinue'?

    NO

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    Chapter Master IJW's Avatar
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    Re: Captains, Command Squads and Drop Pods

    Quote Originally Posted by shin'keiro View Post
    NO - terminators in the SM Codex cannot use drop pods
    Why not? Terminators themselves don't have the option. Characters in Terminator Armour just need to join a unit that has a Drop Pod.
    Last edited by IJW; 14-02-2010 at 01:33.

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    Re: Captains, Command Squads and Drop Pods

    Independent characters can join units, but if they have terminator armor, they'll prevent the unit from both using sweeping advance, and from embarking on rhinos and razorbacks.

    You can still mount a unit with terminators up in all types of land raiders, and drop pods, but anyone with terminator armor takes up two slots.

    Marines don't have a single unit which counts as a 'retinue.' Gray knights and dark eldar do, but not regular marines.

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    Re: Captains, Command Squads and Drop Pods

    Quote Originally Posted by Pooky View Post
    These questions are going to sound really lame, but I have heard differing opinions recently...

    Can a Captain in Terminator armor use a Drop Pod?
    For example, can Lysander and his Command Squad use a Drop Pod? I always thought he could but then I was challenged to prove it. I haven't seen anywhere that says he CAN'T but I haven't seen anywhere either that says he CAN.

    Is the Captains Command Squads a 'Retinue'?
    I thought the Command Squad was treated as another squad (eg like a Tactical Squad) in all respects except it doesn't use any FOC slots. I was then told he CAN'T leave the squad. On top of that I was told that the Command Squad was a RETINUE and hence means the Captain can't be targetted in assault.

    So, what is your take WS?
    Termie takes 2 places and command squad (or honour guard) are NOT retinues. Retinues are being phased out.

  8. #8
    Chapter Master IJW's Avatar
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    Re: Captains, Command Squads and Drop Pods

    Terminators take up two places in Land Raiders. Drop Pods don't mention this restriction.

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    Re: Captains, Command Squads and Drop Pods

    it is a bit of a gap in the rules, but personally, i see no reason why you cannot. 40k being a permissive rule set doesn't help the cause, but then, its specifically mentioned that terminator armor cannot be mounted in rhinos and razorbacks so that is something for the argument at the very least.

    personally i plat it as termi armored characters being allowed into drop pods, but taking up 2 places. This is more because of the common trend in termi sized models specifically mentioned as taking 2 spaces, plus given that there is no rule specifically saying you can do this, it would be a bit much to say they only take one slot
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    Re: Captains, Command Squads and Drop Pods

    Quote Originally Posted by The Marshel View Post
    personally i plat it as termi armored characters being allowed into drop pods, but taking up 2 places. This is more because of the common trend in termi sized models specifically mentioned as taking 2 spaces, plus given that there is no rule specifically saying you can do this, it would be a bit much to say they only take one slot
    I would be fine with my opponent playing it this way. 2 spaces in a drop pod. If you go to a tournament though, I'd look in to what the organizers think.

  11. #11
    Chapter Master Pooky's Avatar
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    Re: Captains, Command Squads and Drop Pods

    Quote Originally Posted by Paraelix View Post
    Termie takes 2 places and command squad (or honour guard) are NOT retinues. Retinues are being phased out.
    Except the Tryant Guard in the bug codex...

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    Re: Captains, Command Squads and Drop Pods

    They aren't an actual retinue though. Retinue's have very specific rules in the BRB/LRB. Nowhere in the nid codex does it list them as a retinue, so I don't think that is a valid example.
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    Re: Captains, Command Squads and Drop Pods

    Quote Originally Posted by IJW View Post
    Terminators take up two places in Land Raiders. Drop Pods don't mention this restriction.
    The Drop Pod rules may not, but the Terminator rules on p.102 do. Terminators take up two spaces in any transport they are allowed to embark in, which includes drop pods.

    Which annoyed me immensly when I realised. It really knackers Wolf Guards...


    jt.

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    Re: Captains, Command Squads and Drop Pods

    Quote Originally Posted by jt.glass View Post
    The Drop Pod rules may not, but the Terminator rules on p.102 do. Terminators take up two spaces in any transport they are allowed to embark in, which includes drop pods.

    Which annoyed me immensly when I realised. It really knackers Wolf Guards...


    jt.
    Why? The Space Wolf Codex specifically states in its Drop Pod entry that it can mount 10 Marines or 5 Terminators. It's pretty obviously deliberate and a fairly sensible rule (I mean, if you can fit 10 Terminators in a Drop Pod, why on earth can you not fit 10 in a Land Raider?)

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    Chapter Master IJW's Avatar
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    Re: Captains, Command Squads and Drop Pods

    Quote Originally Posted by jt.glass View Post
    The Drop Pod rules may not, but the Terminator rules on p.102 do.
    Doh! Missed that...

  16. #16

    Re: Captains, Command Squads and Drop Pods

    space marine codex: pg 102, under the chapter labeled terminator armor. the only limitations the armor has is in any vehicle that it is transported it takes up two slots. then a further limitation is given that it can not be transported in certain vehicles; mainly the rhino and razorback.

    what does that mean? it simply states that a suit of terminator armor in any transport vehicle such as land raider, chimera, drop pod takes up two slots.

    next question:

    on pg 48 of the rule book. it states what a retinue is. and then when you look at the entry of the command squad on pg 132 of the space marine codex. no where in the command squad entry does it state that it functions like a retinue, in order to see how a squad is labeled as a retinue. we have to now take a look at the dark eldar codex. on the spread of pg 6 and 7 first and formost you have to take a look at the two lord choices available to a dark eldar army; the dark eldar lord and wych lord. both of these entries state under special rules that they have a 'retinue' available for purchace. next if we look at the next page, we will see that there is a unit entry called a dark eldar retinue, which clearly shows that it is a RETINUE, and thus follows the retinue rules from pg 48 of the rulebook.

    now looking back to the space marine codex just to make sure, no where under the company commander does it state that he can choose a retinue, nor does the command squad say that it is a retinue for the company commander. the company command squad is simply a unit option that is ONLY available upon the purchase of a company commander.

  17. #17
    Chapter Master Pooky's Avatar
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    Re: Captains, Command Squads and Drop Pods

    I was speaking to a friend of mine about the 'retinue' interpretation of a Command Squad. He basically said that the Command Squad was like 'war gear' for the Captain and hence he can not leave the squad nor can he be targetted within the squad either.

    What's WS's take on this?

  18. #18

    Re: Captains, Command Squads and Drop Pods

    They're what now? Wargear? Tell him to quote the specific rule that says they are and that says he cannot be targetted. Nowhere in the rulebook there is anything about joining wargear and especially it preventing the said IC from being singled out in cc..
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  19. #19

    Re: Captains, Command Squads and Drop Pods

    The easiest way to prove that command squad are not retinues is to look at honour guard and Marneus Calgar. Honour guard have all the same wordings as command squads so it is a valid argument. Calgar may take 3 honour guard units instead of the normal 1. Now this then fails to work under retinue rules but works under it is a squad that takes up the same FOC slot.

    The other point is that since the last Eldar codex (2006) no metion of the retinue mechanic has been mentioned, and the only reason it is still mentioned is to help the poor players who use DE, =][=, BT and possibly Tau.

    As for droppods, yes terminator characters can get in them and they take up two spaces. Matt Ward said in white dwarf and online at the time of the release that this was the reason behind the increase in transport size for vanilla marines.

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    Re: Captains, Command Squads and Drop Pods

    Quote Originally Posted by Pooky View Post
    I was speaking to a friend of mine about the 'retinue' interpretation of a Command Squad. He basically said that the Command Squad was like 'war gear' for the Captain and hence he can not leave the squad nor can he be targetted within the squad either.

    What's WS's take on this?
    Turn to the Captain page of the Codex. Tell you friend to point out Command Squad under the Captain's war gear options. He'll have a hard time finding it.

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