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Thread: Damocles Rhino - are they serious?

  1. #1
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    Damocles Rhino - are they serious?

    Hi;-

    a friend just bought Imperial Armour I and II - looking through we came across the Damocles Rhino.

    This costs 60 points, and in Apocalypse gives the Strategic Asset orbital bombardment (it also lets any friendly deepstriking units anywhere re-roll the scatter dice as long as it is alive).

    Apparently you can have a strategic asset from a unit or formation even if you already chose it in Apocalypse set up.

    Now I know Apocalypse is generally regarded as being massively imbalanced and just for a laugh anyway, but 60 points for one of the good Assets (vauled in Apoc at 250 points), plus a secondary ability thats well worth 60 points anyway seems to be going a bit far even for Apocalypse.

    Also it could be argued (although we are definitely houseruling otherwise) that since you can get a SA from a unit or vehicle even if you have it already, you could just buy loads of Damocles to get a sick number of bombardments.

    Has anyone had experience of Damoclese Rhino Bombardment Spam Cheese? Does anyone rule you can have 1 bombardment per damocles, and if so does it break the game as much as I think it will?

    Mark.

  2. #2
    Chapter Master marv335's Avatar
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    Re: Damocles Rhino - are they serious?

    do you know anyone with the model?
    I doubt it.
    Really nice detail though.

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  3. #3

    Re: Damocles Rhino - are they serious?

    The reason it's cheaper with the rhino is that the rhino can be destroyed. Having OB just as an asset means it's invulnerable.

    But Apocalypse can easily be broken in many ways even if you don't mean to, which is why full cooperation between all players in the planning stage is a requirement for a fun game.
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    Chapter Master Havock's Avatar
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    Re: Damocles Rhino - are they serious?

    It's a cardboard chaptermaster without a way to fight back besides a stormbolter.

  5. #5
    Chapter Master IAMNOTHERE's Avatar
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    Re: Damocles Rhino - are they serious?

    Before we house rule a lot of the assets - not much but enough.

    Eg Only the Ancients Assault Force can use it's associated asset.

    With the Damoclese we allow it but not the free asset. Instead we give it the chapter masters Orbitol Bombardment.

    Works for us.

  6. #6

    Re: Damocles Rhino - are they serious?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheeslord View Post
    Hi;-

    a friend just bought Imperial Armour I and II - looking through we came across the Damocles Rhino.

    This costs 60 points, and in Apocalypse gives the Strategic Asset orbital bombardment (it also lets any friendly deepstriking units anywhere re-roll the scatter dice as long as it is alive).

    Apparently you can have a strategic asset from a unit or formation even if you already chose it in Apocalypse set up.

    Now I know Apocalypse is generally regarded as being massively imbalanced and just for a laugh anyway, but 60 points for one of the good Assets (vauled in Apoc at 250 points), plus a secondary ability thats well worth 60 points anyway seems to be going a bit far even for Apocalypse.

    Also it could be argued (although we are definitely houseruling otherwise) that since you can get a SA from a unit or vehicle even if you have it already, you could just buy loads of Damocles to get a sick number of bombardments.

    Has anyone had experience of Damoclese Rhino Bombardment Spam Cheese? Does anyone rule you can have 1 bombardment per damocles, and if so does it break the game as much as I think it will?

    Mark.
    If you were going to do spam bombardment cheese why not just use the daemon hunters codex?
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  7. #7

    Re: Damocles Rhino - are they serious?

    If you're looking for balance in Apocalypse, you're looking in the wrong place.
    Thud is the new black!

  8. #8
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    Re: Damocles Rhino - are they serious?

    Quote Originally Posted by ehlijen View Post
    The reason it's cheaper with the rhino is that the rhino can be destroyed. Having OB just as an asset means it's invulnerable.

    .
    To my understanding, as written in the Armour book, it simply gives you the strategic asset for taking the model. There is no special rule saying the asset can only be used if the Rhino is on the table or gets lost if it gets destroyed.

    It would be a sensible way to balance it however.

    Mark.

  9. #9
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    Re: Damocles Rhino - are they serious?

    Quote Originally Posted by ehlijen View Post
    The reason it's cheaper with the rhino is that the rhino can be destroyed. Having OB just as an asset means it's invulnerable
    The wording doesn't say that blowing up the Rhino costs you the asset, unlike say the LR Promethius. We quickly agreed that we would treat it as if it used the Promethius wording!

    Quote Originally Posted by marv335 View Post
    do you know anyone with the model?
    I doubt it.
    It is a rhino with a dish, I have plenty of Rhinos...it shouldn't be too hard to mount a dish on one!

    Anyway, for yesterday's game I proxied a normal Rhino for one just to try it out, which was a bit of a problem as it meant I couldn't reasonably take normal Rhinos. Although that wasn't Apoc so we didn't get the SA.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheeslord View Post
    Now I know Apocalypse is generally regarded as being massively imbalanced and just for a laugh anyway, but 60 points for one of the good Assets (vauled in Apoc at 250 points), plus a secondary ability thats well worth 60 points anyway seems to be going a bit far even for Apocalypse.
    Cheeslord and I have an ongoing debate about how good the Orbital Bombardment SA actually is. While it is certainly one of the more generally useful SAs, it is basically one dead unit if you roll well. It's Apocalypse: I don't care if I lose a unit when I've got 20 more!

    I get the distinct impression he'd take them for all his assets if he was allowed to (well, if he was a WAAC sort of a player, which he isn't), whereas I certainly wouldn't.


    jt.

  10. #10
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    Re: Damocles Rhino - are they serious?

    Forgeworld isn't exactly known for making good rules.

  11. #11

    Re: Damocles Rhino - are they serious?

    I've got a buddy with a chaos one, every apoc. game I've played him there is somehow like 8 bombardments from datasheets. yeah it sucks

  12. #12

    Re: Damocles Rhino - are they serious?

    so creed+warmonger is less op than rhino

  13. #13
    Chapter Master Axel's Avatar
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    Re: Damocles Rhino - are they serious?

    Yep, the Damocles is overpowered, and yes, we have a player with three of them - even I own one, though I used it up to create a IG command Chimera.

    Just houserule that there are no SAs coming with your units. APO is about fun, not competition anyways. Using the Necron Phalanx with six Monoliths and bringing back the central Monolith via SA is not something you will enjoy twice. Nor is a couple of Orbital Bombardements enhancing the game experience for all. It needs tweaking at every corner.
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  14. #14
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    Re: Damocles Rhino - are they serious?

    Quote Originally Posted by WinglessVT2 View Post
    Forgeworld isn't exactly known for making good rules.
    IME, which is admittedly pretty limited, Forgeworld rules are at least as good as those from their parent company!

    Quote Originally Posted by Zaeon View Post
    I've got a buddy with a chaos one, every apoc. game I've played him there is somehow like 8 bombardments from datasheets. yeah it sucks
    8? blimey! I can think of four ways to get it of the top of my head, but all of them except the Rhino are pretty pricey. How many points do you guys play with?

    Quote Originally Posted by Devastator View Post
    so creed+warmonger is less op than rhino
    What do Creed+Warmonger do?


    jt.

  15. #15
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    Actually, I had a question or two

    Sorry about the double post, but I just remembered a question I had myself about the Damocles. I was going to start a thread about it, but I guess it make more sense to post it here.

    The Damocles Rhino Datasheet refers to "Preliminary Bombardment" and "Reinforcement Rolls". Are these 4e things? Is Reinforcement Rolls the previous term for Reserve Rolls?

    Also, some of the other data sheets refer to Warmachine Detatchments. Are those a 4e thing, or are they a FW thing that I would need some other IA book to understand? Or both?


    jt.

  16. #16

    Re: Damocles Rhino - are they serious?

    Quote Originally Posted by jt.glass View Post
    IME, which is admittedly pretty limited, Forgeworld rules are at least as good as those from their parent company!

    8? blimey! I can think of four ways to get it of the top of my head, but all of them except the Rhino are pretty pricey. How many points do you guys play with?

    What do Creed+Warmonger do?


    jt.
    oh I don't know, 10k and up? I didn't go to it but there was a 100k one here a few weeks back

  17. #17
    Chapter Master shin'keiro's Avatar
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    Re: Damocles Rhino - are they serious?

    Does anyone still play Apoc.? The rule sounds great - have 10 of them!

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  18. #18

    Re: Damocles Rhino - are they serious?

    Quote Originally Posted by jt.glass View Post
    IME, which is admittedly pretty limited, Forgeworld rules are at least as good as those from their parent company!
    Not everyone would see that as an endorsement

    But in all seriousness, while most FW stuff is goodish, there are black sheep that need to be discussed by the players lest they ruin the fun.
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  19. #19
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    Re: Damocles Rhino - are they serious?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zaeon View Post
    oh I don't know, 10k and up? I didn't go to it but there was a 100k one here a few weeks back
    10k sounded like a lot at first, but then I realised that we have a 7k game planned...it's not inconceivable that we could be up to 10k in a couple of games time.

    100k OTOH...that is big. Is there a battle report anywhere; I'd like to see how something like that goes...

    Quote Originally Posted by shin'keiro View Post
    Does anyone still play Apoc.?
    We do, and apparently Zaeon knows lots of people who do!

    Quote Originally Posted by ehlijen View Post
    Not everyone would see that as an endorsement
    Yeah, I was aware I was slightly damning them with feint praise there!


    jt.

  20. #20

    Re: Damocles Rhino - are they serious?

    http://40kbasement.com/main/

    thats one of the local groups who hosted it, check it out!

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