Dreams of greatness - A Greenskins rise to glory!

[Jind_Singh]

Jind, I have yet to play your OnG, this is a travesty, are you free maybe some time next week for a game? lol.

I welcome games anytime and anyplace! i'm a game junkie!!

I'm out of country from March 6th to March 16th, so lets do it on my return!!!

[Malorian]

Jind_Singh, what is your take on 2 spear chucka vs 1 rock lobba?

Currently I take 4 chuckas as I feel they are safer, but always wonder about the destructive power of two rock lobbas (even more so if there are no more partials in 8th).

[Jind_Singh]

Jind_Singh, what is your take on 2 spear chucka vs 1 rock lobba?

On the Greenskin Warmachines

The Greenskins are blessed with a selection of devastating, yet affordable, warmachines, and the application of some engineered Gobbo cunnin can really add some punch to your attack line. Heres my breakdown on the constructs of death!

Spear Chucka

Cheap, has the potential to cause ruin, and even better as a warmachine it's not prone to animosity or misfires! They come as a 2 for 1 combo, and are dirt cheap! Balistics are a little to be desired but nothing satisfies when both roll to hit!
In todays gaming environment the importance of these machines has grown tenfold - Skaven, Beastmen both boast horrifying large targets, which can be brought down at range with a 50:50 chance, at close range your looking at a 2:3 chance of hitting! High strength, mulitple wounds - it's a blessing!
Every army should never leave home without at least TWO spear chuckas! You'd be crazy not to!

Rock Lobba

The Rock Lobba doesn't seem to have the wide appeal of the Spear Chucka or Doom Diver, but is one of the most under-rated warmachines known to Greenkind!
Str 4 with the same wound causing potential as the Empire Great Cannon, and str 8 on the hole - whats NOT to like! A well used Rock Lobba will decimate enemy formations, and there is only a 1:6 chance of misfiring, and depending on what army your facing, the shot normally finds a target.
It also has superior range, and in games I've seen Chaos Knights, warriors, large formations of Orcs, practically everything wiped out!
But with great rewards come the great risks! Sloppy guessing will waste artillary shots, misfires or scattors can be as destructive to yourself as the opponent, but for their price point I'd almost have to say that the 2nd special slot must always be the humble rock lobba!

Doom Diver

Signiture Greenskin Warmachine! It's as dangerous as it is Goblinish! Only the wee greenies could think of hurtling themselves on catapults and flapping their wings to find a target! Doom diver is unbeatable value! It need only touch something to cause the hits, it can correct it's flight if it scattors, and the damage it causes is like firing off juiced up fantatics through the air! A rare choice should always be dedicated to the magnificent greens in their flying machines!

Warmachine allowance

The debate is though which warmachine to take, and how many? I've seen lists posted on Warseer which have EIGHT spear chuckas! EIGHT!
The problem is not how many mancines to take, but rather the Orcs and Goblins have such gems for their special choices its hard to accomadate.
A great all commers list I use takes 2 spear chuckas, 1 rock lobba, and 1 doom diver - the optimal balance for my games.
The 2 spear chuckas primary role is to harras large targets of any description, failing that they just go for whatever juicy target presents itself to me. So long as you expect EVERY shot to miss it comes as a pleasant suprise when they do sometimes hit and wound! But why not 4 spearchuckas? Because ulitmatly 1 good, well placed shot from a rock lobba in a single turn will kill more than 4 spear chuckas might for an entire game!
A direct hit on a 20mm unit will get 4 fulls and SIXTEEN partials! From which average of TWELVE hits! 8 wounds v's T3, no saves - that is devastating and can, and sometimes does, cause a panic test! Against multi-wound units such as ogres the carnage is even more appealing thanks to the multi-wound causing rocks!
During the Gobbos v's Orcs (I fielded the pure Orc boyz list) my gobbo opponent took 2 spear chuckas and 2 rock lobbas - and the rock lobbas were painful! They decimated my orc boy units to the point were they were being overwhelmed in combat or attrition through shooting....
But for me I'll always see 2 spear chuckas, 1 rock lobba, squig hoppers, and then either blackorcs/boar boyz/chariots/herders for the 4th special, as for me one of the greatest joys of playing the Green horde is diversity of units on the table top.

Magic and Warmachines

But with great power comes great responsibilites! Fielding more than 2 warmachines (And for this purpose each spear chucka is a single machine) can mean that the army selection will dicate which Waaagh lore to go with - little or big. The main advantage of taking the big waaagh is to hope to get their 6th spell - the Waaagh spell - but this WILL cause the warmachine crews to abandon their posts, and every turn the machines are not unloading their payload of deadly cargo is a turn in which you'll be sorry!!

Have fun with it!

[ChaosVC]

Green skins are most scary when they have numerous war machines behind, their night gobs infront with fanatics and the numerous orcs staring at your pathetically small army... Then they fail their animosity all together and you go phew...

[outbreak]

I just came back from playing a greenskin hoarde with 2 spear chukkas and a doom diver at 1500pts. The game went my way with some poor animosity rolls and abit of luck with my weapons (skaven doomrocket killed 18 orcs out of one unit, warpfire thrower killed a unit of black orc), I have to say though 2 spear chukkas and a doom diver were deadly and the only things that really hurt me that game.

[Malorian]

I agree, doom divers are amazing.

I find it is best for taking out units of knights (once had a game where one doom diver wiped out two units of dragon knights!)

[Gork or Possibly Mork]

I love my Doomdiver and 4 chukkas but sometimes I run it like yours replacing 2 chukka's for a lobber instead.

I tend to fill my other specials with chariots and my other rare with pump wagons ( little squishy chariots ). or occasionally a giant or a troll.

I like hoopers but boy are they fragile. They tend to get shot up/magic'd everytime I take them to the point that there not real useful. Maybe I should take them in bigger units but that gets expensive. Same with Blackorcs and they are really expensive. Sure it helps leave the rest of the army relatively unscathed but I'd rather have more big cheap units supported by chariots and warmachines. If I take squigs I like herds the best but I don't have the models so I rarely do.

[Djekar]

I've actually been planning to try out 5-6 Squig Herds instead of an Orc Boyz block. Sure it can't have character, and sure it doesn't have a banner - but the little monsters are WS 4 S 5 with 2 attacks each - I figure if they do get into combat they'll eat something, and if they get shot up A) no one cares (even themselves!) and B) if they aren't dead completely, they can *still* probably eat something!

[abuk]

I actually play a herd or two composed out of 5 teams. I try to set them up in 7 wide ranks, so thats 14 S5 Attacks on the charge. And when they are facing dwarves... Behold the carnage >

BTW great thread, as a passionate goblin player I surely will have a read in here from time to time

Cheers

[Jind_Singh]

Yeah, I've been long pondering Squig herds and their uses - I've just sold myself the concept of snotlings - used them for the 1st time today and they are nifty! Which is good as I have 12 bases of them!! So why the snotling hate? Not really hate, I've always had better things to spend points on, but 40pts for 2 bases is a good buy I think. I will be running them from now on!

On the injusticies of facing Dark Elves

I HAAAATTTEEE Dark Elf armies! They are small in number, they don't have ASF like their goody two shoes cousins, and they looky really squishy - but I have never had an easy game v's Dark Elves!! I've taken down High Elves, those dunces are easy pessy to kill, but the boyz from Nagoroth? Nah!

They just hurt my Greenskins so much! Todays game

Black Orc Warboss, heavy armour, enchanted sheild, boar, akrit axe, boss at (my standard all round build for a warboss, he's amaZIng)

Black Orc BSB, boar, Morks spirt totem - BSB - he's text book BSB

Night Goblin shaman, level 2, staff of badum, mushrooms (Death dealer)

Savage Orc shaman, level 2, boar, collar of zorga, skull staff of katom - he is my Hyrdra killer - he's frenzied so he's immune to the terror check to charge the monstor, the beastie needs 6's to hit me back, AND I get 2 attacks, hitting on 4's - every hit means an UNMODIFIED base leadership test for the beastie! If he fails....he dies! HA! And if im lucky I will get bash um ladz and try to make myself re-roll misses in combat! Hahahaha!

25 orc boyz, FC
25 orc boyz, FC
32 Night Gobbos, netters, FC, spears, 2 fanatics
20 NG archers, mc, 1 fanatic
5 spiders, mc, bows
5 spiders, mc, bows
5 spiders, mc, bows
5 wolf riders, mc, bows
2 snottlings
2 boar chariots
2 pump wagons
2 spear chuckas
10 squig hoppers

He had

Dread lord with magic wepon that doubles stength
level 1 mage
Hero on pegasis, with lance that makes him str 7 on charge!
BSB makes anyone close by -1 to their armour save

2 units of 10 crossbows
5 dark riders
7 harpies
14 witch elves
16 black gaurd

cauldron of blood
hyrda
assasian
shades (6-7 of them)

Basically this guy is amaZIng! He has won severl large tournaments, this list was a 'soft' list, and yet he wiped out the horde! the DE are so powerful! I feel like theres almost nothing I can do to hold them back! I'm determined though - I'll be damned if I let the pointy heads keep me down!

[Malorian]

I haven't found DE to be that much harder to beat than HE unless they take a deathstar.

Doom divers are a great way to take out shades and the ASF units (black guard or executioners w/ BSB) can be beaten down with chariots and then slowly hacked away at.

Against hydras I just take a few wounds off with a chukka and then ignore them. If them want to flame me with a weakened breath I don't care and if they want to get in combat this is actually good for me as that's my best way of beating them (static CR).

One nice trick against DE is to use their hatred against them. Run up a troll or other throwaway unit and put them on an angle in front of a nasty unit. You get charged, lose, and flee, but then they have to chase you thanks to hatred. Or you can even run a fast cav unit into a unit's rear or flank which will have them running off in a direction they don't want to be going in.

[Jind_Singh]

In theory I tried some of those plans but I didn't execute properly

1) Hydra - hit by spear chuckas FOUR times and he passed his regen = str 5 flame munching me up!
2) I forgot the doom diver and rock lobba at home, he said I could proxy spare chariots as war machines but it looked so lame, I just took more units instead.
3) Chariots - that was the plan but poor deployment choices for 2 of the 4 chariots, compounded with some bad movements (exposed them being able to being charged by the flier who is str 7)
4) Fast cav - I normally always keep them in reserve until my army starts to close - this game I decided that he'd be targeting other more meaty units so I'd be safe and could run forwards....WRONG! Every shot was aimed at not just killing some of the fast cav, but destroying them like they never been destroyed before!
5) Generals deployment - he was slightly off-centre - which hurt as I had a great chance to charge 5 Cold One Knights with 20 archers - I'd have 3 ranks, out number, musician - so he'd have had to killed FIVE gobbos with 10 attacks...it would have been a push, and if I survied 1st round of combat then he'd have been in serious trouble.
The serious problem was they were outside the generals leadership bubble and rolled a 6 for their ld test!

I've challanged him to a rematch - he wants to play my Deamons of Chaos but I said NO! I don't even know what boxes I put those sickly DoC into - Me greenies are going to get some vengance!

[wizbix]

Keep up the good work Jind.

[w3rm]

What do you guys think on the Goblin Wolf Horde?

Goblin Great Shaman- 294
Lvl 4
Wolf
Itty Ring
Amulet of Protectyness
Staff of Baddum

Goblin Shaman- 200
Chariot
Scroll
Tricksy Trinket

Goblin Boss- 96
Wolf
Light Armour
Shield
Wun Hit Wunda
Kickin Boots

Goblin Boss- 124
Wolf
Light Armour
Sheild
BSB
Shagas Screamin Sword

14 Wolf Boyz- 226
FC
Shields
Spears

14 Wolf Boyz- 226
FC
Shields
Spears

15 Wolf Boyz- 240
FC
Shields
Spears

6 Wolf Boyz- 90
Musician
Spears
Short Bows

6 Wolf Boyz- 90
Musician
Spears
Short Bows

6 Wolf Boyz- 90
Musician
Spears
Short Bows

6 Wolf Boyz- 90
Musician
Spears
Short Bows

Wolf Chariot- 63
Extra Crew

Wolf Chariot- 63
Extra Crew

Wolf Chariot- 63
Extra Crew

Total- 1995

So the army is very moblie and fast. Use the casters to kill monsters and charachters. Get a flank with a unit of Fast Cav and then combo charge a chariot and a unit of 15 Wolf Boyz. Could it work?

[Djekar]

Well, rather than Shagga's Screamin' Sword, I would probably give the BSB The Raggedy Banner for all those wonderful panic tests you'll be forced to take. This highlights a *big* problem with the list, which is you have a LD 7 General, so LD will be the bane of your small and green existence. In a list like this, failing a fear test that leaves you stranded might hurt more than usual due to the low model count of the army.

Other than that, I think you might do fine, but I think you'll have problems actually killing anything with an armor save. I might drop the Fast Cav to 5 each and one or more of the extra crew on your chariots to get a fourth chariot in there for more hitting potential.

On the plus side, you are extremely fast and should be adept at picking your battles, Animosity/ Leadership willing - so start loading those dice now!

[Jind_Singh]

(I'm in the UK at the moment, won't be back until the 16th so there will be reg. additions to this forum then!)

[Sons of Blight]

Skaven will fear the orcs from now on with the rules for their bell and furnace always failing leader ship tests - Skull Rod on a Savage Orc Shaman = horrible for skaven

[Djekar]

I'm confused by that ruling though, because as a multi-part mount, doesn't the Bell use the best value of all available to it? Like the Star Dragon using the High Elf Prince's Initiative to pass that nasty Pit of Shades?

Even if that isn't the case, I have a feeling that getting your shaman into combat with the giant unbreakable unit of doom may still be a bad idea overall.

[outbreak]

The bell/furnace having 0 ld only comes into effect if you kill it's rider.

[Kayin]

As for warmachines in an Orc army, I have been having pretty decent success lately with 2 rock lobbas. The main downside is that this takes up two our our very precious special slots. However, I find that at least one will be hitting and doing some damage each turn, and when lobbas actually hit, they are amazing. And on the few turns that you actually have both lobbas land on target, units actually disappear from greenskin shooting. I am still in shock by this.

The Current list I am planning on rocking out to a few tournies this spring/summer:

Savage Orcs Warboss(125) ead kickin boots(35) akrit axe(25) effigy of mork(35) -215
Savage Orc Big Boss(75) bsb(25) Noggs Banner of Butchery(25) 125
Savage Orc Shaman(70) lv 2(35) Boar(16) Skull Wand(40) Waaagh! paint(10) -171
N. Goblin Shaman(50) lv 2(35)Staff of sneaky stealing(50) -135

24 Savage orcs(192) Big Unz(96) Cmd(30) Spears(24) -339
33 Night Goblins(105) Cmd(20) nets(35) -154
10 Savage Orcs(80) mus(5) 2 HW(20) -105
10 Savage Orcs(80) mus(5) 2 HW(20) -105
10 Savage Orcs(80) mus(5) bows(20) -105

6 Savage Orc Boar Boys(126) Spears(12) Shields(12) command(38) Big Unz(48) Warbanner(25) -261
6 Savage Orc Boar Boys(126) Spears(12) Shields(12) command(38) -188
2 Rock Lobbas -140

Giant -205


Total:2248

I have been playing all savage orcs for a while now, so I have recently added in some gobbos to start spicing it up a bit. I am using the old forest gobbos, so everything keeps the savage feel. This is also the closest thing to a competitive army that I have fielded in a while. Normally I have the army led by a Lv 4 that blows himself up at in at least 50% of the games he is fielded.

I should be taking these guys to a tourney in Prince George in late april/early may(still waiting to see when the thing actually is) for those of you BC boys who want to get some more games in. I went last year and it was a blast!