Dreams of greatness - A Greenskins rise to glory!

[Jind_Singh]

Thank you Malorian - therein lies my next topic

On choosing Characters

Choosing just 4 characters is NOT an easy task, and until they redo the book and give us Greenskins some 'free character' choices like unit upgrade special characters for Skaven, for Beastmen, we're stuck!

What I would like to take in my all Gobbo lists are:

Night Goblin Big Boss on Giant Squig
Forest Goblin Big Boss BSB on Giant Spider
Night Goblin Shaman, level 2
Skarsnik & Gobbla

And the basis for these choices? Models! I LOVE the special order big boss riding his amazing looking spider, Skarsnik is just an amazing model, and I love the other Night Goblin character models!

BUT when you start looking at whats effective, effective does not look sexy! To play Skarsnik you really should take as many bound items and shamans to really get his full value for his prodder - but that's not fun! We have so many special choices that we almost end up always dropping the Night Goblin shaman in favor of a normal Gobbo shaman riding his wolf chariot....

For a mixed Greenskins list these days we're very bound - We HAVE to take the obligatory Black Orc BSB with Morks spirit totem, oh better mount him on a boar...Yeah we'll need that Warboss for leadership 9 and attacks, oh we have 2 more choices - so if we want to take the cool looking Gobbo characters it means the 4th choice is relegated to a scroll caddy as we can't even run the risk of having no magic defense!

And then there is the themed aspects - I still feel its wrong (but I do it enough to not feel bad about it) to take a Black Orc character WITHOUT taking Black Orc units!

My hopes for the new edition of an Orcs & Goblins book is more access to our beloved characters!

And for character picking...to heck with it and just take whats cool - if you're going to go down, go down happy!

[ftayl5]

This is similar to what I'll take in my Night Gobbo list. Wont get Skarsnik coz the ppl I play with don't allow special characters no matter what.

I've made a few lists but havent gotten a game in yet

Awesome shaman:
NG shaman with staff of baduum, 1 shroom, lvl 2

[Gork or Possibly Mork]

Jing have you ever ran a BOBB on chariot. Im fond of the idea but I never tried it because like you said with the Warboss, BOBSB and Wolf chariot Gobbo shaman you only have one spot left and more times than not I tend to run only 3 characters to keep cost down to get more troops instead.

Im tempted to try a list similar to this with no magic defense other than the spirit totem.

BO Warboss on boar, BOBB BSB on Boar, BOBB2 on Chariot, BOBB3 on Boar.

CORE
2 seperate snotling swarms for redirection etc.
28 OrcBoyz -BSB's unit
28 OrcBoyz -BOBB3 unit
20 Savage Orcs

SPECIAL
17 Blackorcs
17 Blackorcs
9 BoarBoyz - BO Warboss unit [for auto Waaagh]
Orc Boar Chariot

This is a horrible list by most peoples standards
- Too elite
- No warmachines to deal with nasty stuff, whittle ranks etc.
- little magic defense
- Bairly any throwaways.
- General's unit will need to get in combat real fast or get eaten up by magic/shooting and Im not real confident about just getting him stuck in right away with only the boarboyz as support. If they take some casualties first turn and or don't break what they charge it could get hairy.

On the plus side
-Little to no animosity since the BO characters will be keeping the boyz in line
and the rest don't have to worry about it with the exception of the savages.
- High chance of everything waaaghing when needed.
- Panic shouldn't be a worry.

Mostly I just want to try it because I have all those boarboyz and black orc models that I rarely ever use. Also the BO chariot I've never tried it but always wanted to.

[Jind_Singh]

what I would do with the above is drop out 3 boyz per unit, take just 1 unit of BO but make it 25 strong, and then with extra points grab 2 speak chuckas incase you do run into something hard - 2 bolts should help you out big time! I also put the BSB black orc in the chariot with a warbannor - if he gets a flank charge he'll get +3 combat res PLUS whatever he kills! He'll break rank and file with some luck!
6 boar boyz is plenty enough also.

I think for a list in which I forego all magic defense the army would be built for speed - chariot spam, warboss on wyvern, all characters either mounted or in chariots, fast cav, and then some boar boyz for heavy hitting power. I'd also grab 1 doom diver and 2 pump wagons for support. In fact I am going to build a speed freaks list and see how it goes!

[ShaggothLord]

Jind- Been trying this Black Orc Warboss build lately, and really liked it. Thoughts?
Black Orc- Boar, Heavy Armor, Enchanted Shield, Martog's Best Basha, Effigy of Gork, Bigged's Kickin Boots-275(I think)

He has Ws8, 5 attacks always at Strength 6, 1+ armor, and everybody not WS9 hits him on 5s.

[Jind_Singh]

That's a nasty use of the effigy - but it makes him defensive, he is only base str 5, so in that case I'd either go the whole hog and grab the boss at for him (whose going to kill him now!) or get a cheap magical weapon incase you run into VC and need something to take out the wraiths!
Martogs best basha is ideal as it makes him WS 9! Even higher than average troops with WS4 need SIXES to hit him! Rank and file ogres have next to no chance!

I guess what I am bumbling towards there Shaggothlord is how do you play the Warboss - is he part of your offensive line or is he used passively to provide leadership and points denial?

I want to try out that combo though, it would certainly surprise a few players out there!

[ftayl5]

like the suicide squig

NG Boss on Cave Squig with Bauble and One hit wunda or just a spear (depends on spare points)

The thing i love about NG is how unremarkable their characters are, a chaos warrior could beat a big boss up....

[Jind_Singh]

The thing i love about NG is how unremarkable their characters are, a chaos warrior could beat a big boss up....

EXACTLY! This is the quote of the day! Isn't it amazing that our hero choices can be taken down by a rank & file Chaos Warrior! Unless we arm them to da teef of course!

The Goblin kin are an army that relies more on synergy than any other army in Fantasy, wise selection and deployment of Snotlings, Squig Hoppers, and Herder teams in your main battle line are worth their weight in gold.

A plain Big Boss will do nothing but given the right tricks of the trade, he can wreak serious damage to even a steam tank! He'll be dead the next turn but is that anything new?

As an aside, what does everyone think about the common Gobbo? 4+ save in close combat, point higher leadership than Night Goblins, and they don't become expensive units as no netter/fanatic upgrade - I am toying with the idea of introducing them into my army list!

Has anyone used, or seen in action, common Gobbo regiments?

[Jind_Singh]

What's the meaning of da life Boss?

The Greenskins have been a part of the Warhammer world since it's inception, yet other than through the histories of Mankind detailing Waaagh this, and Waaagh that, not much has been said about our mighty race.

That they have numbers uncounted, a passion for brawling, and they squabble as a means of carrying out intellectual debates!

But I want to go deeper? What's the mean of life, the universe, everything? From the Greenskins point of view! Does the Boss (Gork or possibly Mork) really have a plan or is our race destined to have an outlook on life which involves:

a) Hitting things
b) Ideally hitting things that don't hit back
c) And even if they do hit back, hit them anyway!

While at the same time muttering things about so-and-so's mam 'cuz I heard she married a stuntie' and generally causing the unit to breakdown in an all mighty ruckus!

Who were the 1st Orcs? Did we really just show up out of no where as stowaways in the Old Ones ships or were we created by someone/something?

Who knows - and frankly do the Greenskins even care?

[ftayl5]

The old ones created the orcs and gobbos coz they knew the world would be boring without them. Seriously, take away all gobbo/orc related events in elf, dwarf and human history and thered be virtually nothing left.

On common gobs- I can see people taking these as tarpits over night gobbos. Better save and increase LD make them better for the job and can be kept cheap without the temptation of fanatics and netters.

[Jind_Singh]

LOL! OMG! Yeah, some bored Old Timer was sitting around looking into the threads of the future when all of a sudden...

"Mmm, apart from the odd Chaos incursion here and there I must say the after life will be dull - certainly nothing to keep me amused...Those Elves and Dwarves - too strong, they will keep everyone together...hold on - what if...yeeeesss that could work"

The Old One glanced across the star chamber and there lay the answer on the chrome mantle piece, last years family spawning picture....

"Uncle Cecil! He's a hoot - Nobody likes to invite him to any of the parties but you got to admit, the guys just hilarious and just shows up anyway! I still don't know how he was able to spike Ganny May's drink, AND still have the energy to knock out loud mouthed Tommy at the end of the night! What I need is a race of beings modeled after Uncle Cecil!

And so began the creation of the newest inhabitants of the Old World. They took the color of their father, green, and they took his name...

Uncle Cecil.. which translated directly from the ancient scripts became...

Gorker Morker, which over the years was shortened to Gork Mork, which made no sense so time altered the meaning to Gork & Mork.

The Orcs & Goblins had arrived, it was time...

[ftayl5]

Dude, YOUR'E HILARIOUS!

[Condottiere]

Eventually, Mork became lonely, and found himself a girlfriend, Mindy.

[ftayl5]

But his little brother Gork, due to extreme jealousy, slipped some madcap mushrooms into Mindy's tea....

[Jind_Singh]

On Rare Choices

One of the biggest headaches I face as a Greenskin general is selecting my rare choices. Here is a breakdown of the 4 and why it's so hard to chose only 2!

Doom Diver

This is a true Greenskin workhorse that is useful for so many applications of war it is hard to see myself leave home without one! The ability to correct it's flight as the mad gobbo frantically steers towards his intended target is game breaking - so long as he touches a unit it's hit, making it ideal to wipe out nasty Dark Elf shades, Skaven Plague censor bearers, and his decent strength and multi-hit ability is not to be laughed at!
But the Doomdiver is NOT a 'one size fits all' war machine solution. Against higher toughness opponents he is not so great, after all with an average toughness of 6 for true beasties he won't be wounding 2 times out of 3!
Chose your targets with care, go for squishy kills unless you need to take a last ditch gamble of wreaking that thundering monster, and stay focused on what targets you select - aim for units which will be devastated, i.e. Dark Elf Crossbow units. But for the price point it is an invaluable addition to the Waaagh!

Giants

These fearsome, and smelly, Goliaths are epically funny and fit the theme of any greenskined horde! However, their lack of armor and low toughness does make them a liability - if you don't expect the giant to do anything in the game apart from soak up missle firepower you won't be so sad as he goes crashing down, pin cushioned by bolts, arrows, and black powder!
But he does add terror to your arsenal of weaponry, not to be ignored in today's world of lower leadership armies (heres looking at you kid, Beastman kid!). And surprisingly he'll pull out a few surprising hits per game IF he does live long enough to make combat. \
For deployment he's better off on the flanks as when he DOES fall over he'll crush your poor tightly packed units - beware!

Trolls

Underused and overlooked, these are some of the superstars of any army when used well. Stupidity is an issue, but providing they are close to the generals leadership bubble they are no more unreliable than your average unit!
Taken in units of 3, these critters can destroy anything that comes at them, especially Imperial Steam Tanks! Vomit attack is just amazing as any number of Knightly orders have seen, and even their basic attacks are strong enough to render through most lightly armored foes.
I use them in the center of the battleline and they rush forwards as fast as they can - which is pretty fast for a foot troop - and to tie down the enemy units. Properly supported the Trolls are game winning units AND enemy generals are reluctant to waste firepower due to their regeneration. Another great tactic, for e.g like an army like the Vampire Counts, is to take the Stone Troll upgrade - Magic resistance in an army which generally doesn't have access to MR - that is a gift from Gork & Mork indeed!

Snottling Pump Wagons

Useful? Not really, their random 2D6 movement is not to be desired, perhaps 3D6 would have been better.
Do I take them? EVERY single game that I can! And 2 of them! Why? They look great, they really fit the character of my army, AND they have been known to perform amazing feats! Nothing sucks more than wasting shots at Pump Wagons but evey has to - 2D6 str 4 impact hits is great, and don't forget to attack with the crew! The shame of falling to these pint sized Greenskins is to funny to pass up on!
Deploy them in between units of Gobbos or Boyz and present the threat of massive impact hits to the foe if they close to quickly on your battle line.
With a 360 degree charge arc never underestimate the potential to protect your vulnerable flanks or rears with these ramshackle constructs of war!


So does this help? Not really, I love all four rare choices, but they can help turn your pack of meek alley cats into savage beasts of war!!!!

Have fun and keep on Waaaghing!

[ftayl5]

I too really like the wagon. I prefer Trolls though coz they're more reliabe, for all I know, they Wagon may have M2 in a turn I really need it. And with an army of super-unreliable things, having atleast 1 unit of quite reliable big basha's is nice. I'd use them in the CHARGE! role, but simaltaeneously as a MR 2/Regenerating screen for another unit. Also I don't like the new model.

Then again a giant is better than all of them so :P

Ooh ooh ooh, do squigs next!

[Jind_Singh]

Ooh ooh ooh, do squigs next!

lol, ok then here are Squigs!

On Squigs, their uses, their roles, their weakness!

Squigs - Nothing says Orcs and Goblins (for both Warhammer and 40K) than the sight of Squigs! A cake show on TV made a life size Squig, I have a t-shirt with a squig hopper, the crazy dudes are just so...epic!

But what about their gaming value? Even though there are just the 2 units to choose from, Squig Hoppers & Squig Herders, mixed reviews and feelings have divided our Greenskin community into 2 opposing groups

Squig Herds

Not a bad buy on paper - Ws 4, str 5, mutli-attacks, whats not to like about them? No random movement, you can get rank bonus and outnumber (depending on how many teams), and low points costs, plus they explode when forced to flee! You get 5 models for the price of 2 squig hoppers, the models are amazing to look at - whats not to like?

Well for me they are a liability - I expect my Gobbos to die, but not to explode and take out loads of my own units! They are ITP which means that it's not going to be a given you can avoid an enemy charge when you least want it - a misplaced explosion can have dire consequences which I feel a typical Gobbo army just cant handle! In today's game vs the Empire I came close to blowing apart my level 3 shaman with Squigs gone wild!

Squig Hoppers

These guys are just so good that every list I run has AT LEAST 1 unit! 5 is ok, 10 is better! They are just one of THE best special choices we can get!

Here's a few reasons why...

1) They skirmish - so they are amazing to deploy!
2) Great movement, well most of the time!
3) Hard to shoot at!
4) Great protection screen for your units
5) 360 degree line of sight/charge arc - absolute amazing this one, we (the O & G players) have the weakest flanks of any army, once someone gets beside or behind us it's not good! The only fast units we have to protect us are fast cav - who are not strong, so the hoppers really come into their own protecting us
6) Combat mashers - well they do! They mash most units faces into combat, the same way herder teams do.
7) War machine protection - I like to bounce them sideways, and then next turn back to the starting position - left to right. Right to left...until an enemy comes too close to my war machines, then the squig hoppers are off to harass the enemy!
8) Flank chargers - no body does it better or harder!
9) Even better looking models than herder teams - well they are!

Just goes to show, I love both units, have both units, but I will always favor the versatile squig hoppers over netters! Best are games when I don't have to choose - I just take both!

[ftayl5]

always favor the versatile squig hoppers over netters!

Me too! It's a shame they are so expensive, and theres only 5 diffrent models. I really hope they get new plastic models....

[Malorian]

I find that in larger games squig herds are a perfect flanking units.

They don't need your general's leadership since they are ItP, and if they blow up there isn't much of your own stuff to hurt. They are also great flankers since they don't have a banner and have a high damage output, so if you can tie down the opponent first they are a nice counter unit.


As for squig hoppers I also love them in larger games.

They can catch things in 360, they hurt a lot, and once again they don't need to worry about the general's ld.


Unfortunately for both of these units I just simply don't have the slots for them. I have two slots filled with 4 chukkas and then the other two go to chariots which I prefer do to their compactness, the ablity to control, and their impact hits again ASF armies.

I'd LOVE to see squig herds be made into core

[ShaggothLord]

That's a nasty use of the effigy - but it makes him defensive, he is only base str 5, so in that case I'd either go the whole hog and grab the boss at for him (whose going to kill him now!) or get a cheap magical weapon incase you run into VC and need something to take out the wraiths!
Martogs best basha is ideal as it makes him WS 9! Even higher than average troops with WS4 need SIXES to hit him! Rank and file ogres have next to no chance!

I guess what I am bumbling towards there Shaggothlord is how do you play the Warboss - is he part of your offensive line or is he used passively to provide leadership and points denial?

I want to try out that combo though, it would certainly surprise a few players out there!

Couple issues: Sadly, can't take both the Effigy and Boss At, both Talismans. He also already has Martog's Best Basha, which bumps him up to Ws8, gives him the magical attacks, and he is always Strength 6, wounding most things on 2s. I use him to lead a block of Orcs, and when he hits, boy does he hit hard. I've considered putting him in a Boar Boy unit, but I'm waiting until next month when they get new models!