[Playtest] Necrons vs Biel-Tan Eldar, 3000 Points of Age Old Struggle!

[Moscovian]

Here's the alleged problem - the Monoliths are suffering the way other formations have always suffered in Epic and the Necron players aren't used to it.

It's still the most logistically efficient army in the game so I really can't feel sorry for Monolith formations having BMs when their primary function is still working when they are broken.

Does anyone really think that -with the rule modification in 2.0, the Necrons are underpowered? Or have significant internal balance issues?

[Spectrar Ghost]

the Monoliths are suffering the way other formations have always suffered in Epic and the Necron players aren't used to it.

I am not a Necron player myself, but I can imagine that Monoliths would pile up BMs faster than run-of-the-mill units. They Teleport, meaning that a formation will average 1/6 BM per unit per teleport. Teleporting, combined with their primary function of being a portal transport, means they will plonk down in fire alleys as often as not. Finally, re-teleporting after rallying means residual BMs to deal with. Therefore, the small formations will break easily.

OTOH, they are fearless, so have nothing to fear from not moving when broken. This allows them to stay in the thick of it until they phase out. Which allows them to teleport in somewhere else the next turn if they rally.

On the whole, it seems the Monoliths still suffer much less from BMs than other units (due mainly to their intended use), and may have some potential benefits to breaking often...

[Vaaish]

While odd from a fluff perspective, I don't see how a change is needed for the monoliths. They already have plenty of special rules on them and the monoliths still function when broken so it doesn't seem too detrimental outside of their shooting attacks and supporting fire for them to retain some BM.

[Chroma]

Well, let's see some more games posted, gentlemen!

[Moscovian]

In our group, MNB really likes to play his Necrons more than his other armies and everyone else gets tired of playing against them so we try to have just one Necron player per weekend. That ends up being 2-4 games every 2 weeks that we see them in action.

I just don't post the batreps very often and MNB doesn't post them at all. So far he's running about 60-65% win ratio with the Raiders 2.0 rules though.

[Chroma]

I just don't post the batreps very often and MNB doesn't post them at all. So far he's running about 60-65% win ratio with the Raiders 2.0 rules though.

Even a quick couple of photos per turn would be great. No need to pretty them up or anything; would be good to see other people's Necron and anti-Necron tactics and setups; just to get a feel for how people are playing and interpreting/misinterpreting the rules.

The perfect example of that is how Corey thought the Portal rules were being used/intended and how some other people were using them; without reports, that information would've never been discovered and no changes made.

And, with the "Game Logs" I put together, it's not that tough to put together a play-by-play to record anything interesting/unusual that comes up.

[Moscovian]

Well I did post some of the games I played against him about 6 weeks back They weren't full batreps but highlights of the games... Other than that though I really don't have time to get them posted these days. Besides, getting the information to *me* is the main thrust of those batreps right now, wouldn't you say? And I promise I will be in constant communication with me through this entire process.

[Chroma]

Besides, getting the information to *me* is the main thrust of those batreps right now, wouldn't you say?

Actually, that's the main thrust of my "Corey" argument... it's good to see Army Champions post some games/reports to see how *they* interpret/use the army.

And I understand your busy-ness... cuz you never call me back...

[Moscovian]

That's because I hate you.

In an ideal world I agree with you. Of course in an ideal world I would be able to fly up to Canada in my private jet and play Epic for six days before coming back to my 8hr/week job that pays $200,000/yr.

I'll try to get more posted-

[Chroma]

In an ideal world I agree with you. Of course in an ideal world I would be able to fly up to Canada in my private jet and play Epic for six days before coming back to my 8hr/week job that pays $200,000/yr.

So, when you booking your vacation this year?

Alternate the bookkeeping with the Game Logs as you play, or, if you've got "interested observers" get them to help... make "helping with playtesting" sound as cool as it really is!

And reports don't have to be fancy, *especially* for playtesting reports; battle reports and stories can be cool, but aren't necessary for data-gathering.

People have to keep in mind that *playtesting* is quite a bit different from *playing*; playtesting should be playing the game "hard core", but in a fully cooperative way: you're not trying to beat your opponent, you're trying to beat the kinks out of the experimental army. There should be a lot of suggestions and discussion back and forth as play progresses; it should be a fully "open" process, unlike playing in a Tournament or such where you keep your plans hidden. "I'm attempting to do this..." or "Why are you doing that instead of this?" should be the kind of interaction participants in a playtest should be having.

I can see how *playing* against the same army all the time could get frustrating, but I've never found *playtesting* with the same army frustrating at all; they're both different experiences.

[ZomboCom]

Having a single leader in the 3 monolith formation would be pretty cool, as it could represent the apocalypse formation that gets some kind of death zone thing.

[Kealios]

You could likely do this by adding a Character Upgrade with Leader that rides in Monoliths only, with 1 per Formation maxed as opposed to giving the Monoloth the Leader ability.

[Vaaish]

The thing is, do monolith formations really need to be more expensive? Even if you add it will anyone take the upgrade?

[Spectrar Ghost]

Chroma, where can I find those logs now that Taccoms is down? I couldn't find them in the Wiki, though my search fu is often lacking.

[Chroma]

Chroma, where can I find those logs now that Taccoms is down? I couldn't find them in the Wiki, though my search fu is often lacking.

I thought I'd posted them to the Wiki, but it seems I was mistaken; that mistake has been corrected:

EPIC Game Log Sheets

I recommend tagging yours and your opponent's formations on their armylists and one can just use numbers or short-hand to refer to formations.

Let me know if you've got any questions or comments! I know someone did a suggested update of the sheet... but I think that's on TacComm as well and I can't find a copy.

[Chroma]

Hurts my eyes too much to start reading. Could you possibly choose colours which are not almost black as reading that from black background is .... not fun .

That's odd... the contrast and readability is great on my monitor... it's why I choose those colours!

I'll see what I can do to change them, if you like, Hena.

[Hena]

That's odd... the contrast and readability is great on my monitor... it's why I choose those colours!

I'll see what I can do to change them, if you like, Hena.

It's the Biel-Tans colour which is bad, Necrons colour is ok.

[Moscovian]

Chroma, -I'm not mad, honestly, but- why are you telling ME the ins-and-outs of playtesting? I mean, after all this time you don't think I know? Sometimes there just isn't enough time or a desire to do what you are talking about. Not all of us have kids that can be tended to by putting out some kibble and cleaning the litter box.

[Chroma]

Chroma, -I'm not mad, honestly, but- why are you telling ME the ins-and-outs of playtesting? I mean, after all this time you don't think I know? Sometimes there just isn't enough time or a desire to do what you are talking about. Not all of us have kids that can be tended to by putting out some kibble and cleaning the litter box.

Oh, sorry if it came off that way, it wasn't meant to get targetted at you specifically, Bill, but to the "general readership".

And I though you Americans had cages for your kids or something...

[Moscovian]

No, just leashes.