Tactica: Blood Angels

[Gaargod]

Because its that time again...

With the new Blood Angels upon us, and lots of people having read the book, what tactics have already been thought up?

For my part, i have to say the Baal Preds are looking amazing. Fast + Scout means you're inflicting the pain from turn 1 - a flamestorm template is nothing to be sneezed at. The standard dakka loadout also has use - sit outside of close-melta range, and try to shred side armour/troops.

[CKO]

Av 13 spam, 3 baals, 3 predators/vindicators, and your choice of troops will be the cream of the crop.

[Maiku]

Thoughts Assault Marines vs. Tactical Marines in the new dex?

Seems to me like the Assault Squads are the obvious choice here, with possibly a 10 man tactical squad with a ML or LC in a Rhino on an objective just to make sure it's not going anywheres. The ability to pack so many Meltas into a squad and give them furious charge and FnP makes them awesome in combat as well as pretty solid tank hunters.

Flamerbaals vs Dakkabaals? I still feel like the dakkabaals are still better since they're more flexible (Anti-everything vs Super anti-infantry).

People are pulling out a lot of pure(near-pure) jump infantry lists... I agree with CKO, tank rushing is going to win games. With the option of taking 6 high armour vehicles, why WOULDN'T you abuse that?

Death Company: Are they worth having? They're pretty nifty but they're not going to be doing as much now that you can slap a SP to a squad of Assault Marines and get pretty much the same thing but it scores...

[DrunkTerminator]

Anyone have thought any tactics about sanguinary guard? I know they are not really competetive but i love the look and context and i would love to use them in more casual battles.

One unit with chapter banner, powerfist and a sanguinary priest with jump pack looks pretty decent imo.

[Prismshard]

I don't know what's not competitive about Sanguinary Guard. They have good pre-assault shooting, 2-handed power weapons, jump packs and 2+ saves, all for only 200 points. The temptation is to kit them out with extras, but if you leave them bare-bones and keep them near or attached to a Sanguinary High Priest, they'll definitely get their points back. The key is to make sure they don't get charged by high-initiative power weapons or MC's, and that they aren't exposed to massed AP1 or AP2 fire.

[DrunkTerminator]

Exactly this. They can kill MEQs thats it. But so can your normal assault squad that can kill hordes too, has more guys can hunt armor more effectively etc.

The sanguinary guard will charge something and then will get shot to pieces or assaulted by something it cant win. And because of their numbers can be pretty bad in long combats especially against hordes.

[Maiku]

5 jump marines with no invul that can't take a transport for more than a squad of Terminators? I'll stick with my LC Terminators and put them near a SP. S5/I5 Lightning Claws? Yes please.

[Kirby]

Sang Guard do look pretty though lol.

I'm still against using Vindis in a mix with a JP army that is designed to assault. If you're doing a list based around 6 AV13 + RBacks/Rhinos, go for it but running Vindis and an assault army is asking for trouble. I think 6 Preds is personally better than 3Pred/3Vindi but Fast Vindis do have their merits in a Mech Spam list.

[FileX]

I havent heard much talk about the Bloodraven. Are they worth it?

[sdnick]

How is the overall points cost of newer BA armies? I painted up an army that has the colors of blood angels, but I've been switching between the BA old codex and the SM vanilla codex because I've been unable to make up my mind.

The new codex has lots of goodies thats making me want to switch completely to BA, but I've been hearing the cost of everything is alot more than vanilla and your armies tend to be alot smaller with the new dex. And when your army is smaller, every little marine dying hurts just a little bit more. is it worth the tradeoff?

[Maiku]

The only things that really cost a good chunk more are the tanks because they all got the fast rule. Although I do wish they had made this an optional thing, I feel that Vindicators having a 36" effective range is pretty damn awesome. Not to mention having Ass Cannons that are pretty much always going to be hitting on side armour.

As for the Stormraven, since there's no real model and it's pretty pricy to play in an already tight list, more AV13 spam seems like it's just got more synergy with the rest of the lists that are currently being brainstormed. It's FAR from useless; the problem is, multiple Stormravens in a list is going to be lots of points.

I think the question is: Is it better than a Land Raider? It's got the firepower to keep up with one but it's a lot more fragile and it's going to be even more of a target.

[Project2501]

Traditional Baal pred > flamer pred still IMO.

The ability to make an all jp army is a welcome refresher (since you could with the old dex) IMO.

The stormraven is a toss-up really.

The ability to take an all dread army is (to me at least) the most appealing new design/tactic.

[OverchargeThis!]

IN 2000, I'm toying with 2 dakkabaals, 2 vindys, and a redeemer for armor. Set up on flank with the redeemer's mass blocking los to the rest of the units. DC in the redeemer, rest sprinkle to taste.

For all of the talk around things other than DC, I really think we're going to eventually see either 15-16 man DC squad in a redeemer, led by one form or another of chaplain, or a pair of rhinos with a squad each of DC in them (T-Hammer/2 PW), led of course by astorath.

In terms of the vindy being a no-go along side jump infantry, this could be a liability in teh very late game if a player isn't careful. I envision assaulting to a flank, and having all of my armor hitting the center, to mitigate counter-assaulters. In this role the vindy's would do quite well, and not be a threat to the infantry when it lands its initial assault.

I still see a role for tacticals in pods. But the dual special weapon option for assault marines almost negates tactical squads, beyond home objective holding. In my opinion, tacticals should also have gotten the option for dual special weapons, b/c it puts them in precisely this relatively non-useful role.

[MEPHISTONSRAGE]

I'l looking at 3-4 10 man assault squads. And 1 - 2 Sanguinary Guard with Sanguinary Priests sprinkled in. Toss in a couple of Vindicators or Predator variants and you can give them covering fire. BUT.. You could just as easily run two Tacticals in rhinos as mobile cover and fire support. Because I don't care who you are, its hard to kill 60-70 marines. And the mobility and ability to swamp a gun line is going to really overload alot of peoples capability to deal with the threat.

Death Company is awesome as a points sink. And I'll run it to be sure, but want to look at the book before I really go there. 30 of them is like 600 points? Give them Jump packs and some power weapons and Lemartes, and they are about 1300 points. totally lethal, but 1300 points. You still have to buy another troop, and HQ, and hopefully a heavy support or two. All to get in under 2k.
A neat concept army, and possibly a real bruiser. FNP is key to this groups survival.

[LKHERO]

Here are what's good about the Dex in my opinion. I've seen the Dex multiple times and basically have it memorized already.

Best HQ cost effective HQ: Librarian.
Best HQ to take with DC: Reclusiarch.
Best FA slot: Baal Preds with TLAC and HB Sponsons.
Best secondary FA: Vanguard Veterans
Best elite flying troop: Vanguard Vets, followed by Honor Guard, followed by Sanguinary Guard.
Best SCs: Mephiston, Dante, Sanguinor.
Best Heavy slots: Vindies with Dozer Blade.
Best Troop layouts:
- 5x ASM without packs in a Razorback with TLAC
- 10x ASM without packs with Fist, 2x Meltaguns in a Rhino
- 10x Tacticals with Fist, Meltagun and MM in a Rhino
Best Elite choice: Sanguinary Priests, in all shapes and sizes (JP or in a unit).
Secondary Elite: Furioso Dreadnoughts, Librarian Dreadnoughts
Most cost ineffective unit: Death Company, Sanguinary Guard unfortunately.

Most obvious combos (the general gist):
A lot of AV13 presence on the field, a lot of tanks and targets to shoot at.
Librarian Dreads that be drop podded and can fly 12".
9x DC in a Rhino with Reclusiarch (super Chaplain) w/ power weapons and Fists (re-roll hits and wounds).
Furioso/DC Dreads with Blood Talons that have S6 Lightning Claws that gains more attacks per wound dealt.
5x Assault Terminators in a LRC with Sanguinary Priest in TDA giving them FNP and FC.
Sanguinor and Honor Guard w/ Chapter Banner providing +1 attack bonuses.
Dante and the ability to take Sanguinary Guard as troops.

Strongest pre-codex launch lists:
3/3 Baal Preds/Vindie lists
AV13 spam lists with Dreads

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/i...owtopic=194257

I basically had this Dex down by the 8th of March. Very solid Dex, a lot of fun options, you pay for the points though definitely.

Overall rating, I would give this Dex..
Power: 4
Balance: 5
Design (creativity): 4

To compare it to Space Wolves, I'd give that Dex a 5 all around.

[ElladanM]

DS the Sang guards with 2 infernous pistols, a priest and Dante and you can easily pop a LR. Then with baal preds you shoot what was in it. Sang guards and Dante might not be as good as assault squads, but they definitely are devastating against Marines, CSM, Necrons and such.

[Joshwow1]

5 being the best on the scale? eh, I beg to differ.

Comparing it to space wolves, the dex would be a 4 IMO. Wolves can pack enough shooty to deal with the spam of armor, just like guard. And a list with only 25 scoring models will most likely not net you many wins.

I agree on all points, except for the heavy support/fast attack slot. Rifleman dreads definitely seem to be the best choice in HS. Cheap effective long ranged AA/AMC (anti monstrous creature). It's 30 pts more expensive for EACH vindicator that always get close to that melta range. Dreads can also deal with peky out flankers in CC, where vindicator's can not.

Since when did we disown the trusty Multi-Melta attack bike? There was no point increase at all. It is still the awesome cost effective AA we can muster.

Here's a list I will be play testing tomorrow

HQ
Librarian
-Epistolary
-Unleashed Rage
-Fear of the Darkness

Elites
Sanguinary Guard x3

Librarian Furioso Dreadnought x2
-Wings
-Lance

Troops

Assault Squad x3
- 9 Man squad x2, 8 Man squadx1
-Power Fist
-Melta Gun
-Rhino

Fast Attack
Multi Melta Attack Bikes x3

Baal Predators x2
-Heavy Bolters

Heavy Support
Dreadnoughtx2
-TLAC x2

Each Sang priest join an assault squad. The librarian joins the 8 man squad.

Librarian is the unit buffer/ enemy nuisance. He can make his squad Preferred Enemy and also force a unit to flee from 24' away at a -2 MORALE check...which is huge. Leadership re-rolls are abundant, but morale is completely different.

Furioso's search for infantry/armor/ MC's. Serve as psyker defense as well. All purpose

Dreadies main priority is transports.

Assault squads play the tactical role of the army (objective sitting or rushing forward for KP.)

Attack Bikes will normally go for armor.

Baals hit up whatever the dreadies pulled from the transports.

Army comp.
4 av 13
2 av 12
3 av 11
30 FnP FC bodies
3 bikes

[LKHERO]

5 being the best on the scale? eh, I beg to differ.

Comparing it to space wolves, the dex would be a 4 IMO. Wolves can pack enough shooty to deal with the spam of armor, just like guard. And a list with only 25 scoring models will most likely not net you many wins.

I gave SW a 5/5. I find it to be a very diverse, powerful and fun codex. Best book I've seen in 40k in a long time.

BA is surprisingly balanced. A lot of their powerful combos are kept in check with point restrictions and very little is an auto-take. BA players should have fun with this dex for a long time without complaints.

It's 30 pts more expensive for EACH vindicator that always get close to that melta range.

Considering you can drive 12" back and still maintain that lovely 24" reach, I don't think so. Unless of course, you're bad. (not you, the player). I play a good deal of Fantasy too, so judging threat range is pretty easy for me. A lot of players suffer from this though. Baals and Vindies should never be within melta range now.. especially with the Fast rule. That's just silly.

[Aiwass]

@ Joshwow1, are not the sang guard 0-1?

[LKHERO]

@ Joshwow1, are not the sang guard 0-1?

That's DC.
I think he meant to type Sanguinary Priest. Not Guard.