Tactica: Blood Angels

[jamesterjlrb]

I have to admit LKHERO that i feel the reclusiarch is useless with DC. The difference between a reclusiarch and a normal chaplain iirc is that the reclusiarch makes the unit fearless. What is the point of this if you add him to an already fearless unit. You're better off buying a cheaper elites chaplain imho.

I think the stormraven can work competitively but i think you need two. One will get casually shot down with a lascannon. But two moving flat out with a 4+ cover save will be more troublesome i think.

[Joshwow1]

Woops. Didn't realise I typed Guard instead of Priest ^.^

Yeah LK thanks for catching that.

And sorry I thought you were giving BA the a 5/5. Def space wolves, right next to IG. But BA are a solid 4. Troop selection just isn't as good as SW or IG.

And you are correct about the range of the fast vehicles. But I just don't see the point efficiency as opposed to a rifleman dread. Even from tourney play, vindicators never really shine. 1 armament destroyed really puts a cramp in that thing's style. I just speak from experience in my meta game (which is a very competitive one) and even from looking at lists from GT's n such.

[scarvet]

Lermantes or Asorth(?) on the other hand is entirely different, both are absolutely brutal.....but of course no as bad as Dante or Mephiston....

[meanmachine]

do you think its more cost effective to take 2 librarians with jump packs over 1 mehpiston

i would say yes since they can choose their powers and you get more range destruction from them, mephiston's powers are for combat only

also who do you think will survive longer, mephiston or the sanquinor.

mephiston has his toughness 6 and 5 wounds but no eternal warrior and no invulnerbale save
the are lots of things that inflict instant death theses days, skulltaker just needs 1 4+ to wound and its bye bye mehpiston

sanquinor has a 2+/3+ save and eternal warrior, he is str5 so not bad in combat.

i would feel safer with sanquinor, i think he would survive longer against MC

whats your opinion on this.

[Maiku]

I personally don't like any of the SCs in the new dex. They're all almost the same price as a LR and a solid chunk of them aren't ICs. I can see that they did this to try and balance out the dex but seriously? It's not awful but it's definitely a big drop from the previous edition SCs (Dante/Corbulo combo?)

In addition, with Libby's being freaking awesome in the new dex, I see no reason why someone would opt for a more expensive version that can still be ID'd and still has no invul. I foresee some of the SCs (Dante, Sanguinor, Astorath) being useful in some lists, but this isn't herohammer; they aren't game breaking and for over 200 points, they'd be points better spent somewheres else. IMO

[scarvet]

Mephiston is a marine size Swarmlord which can use one more power, with greater range and utility. Unless you want the super-all comer like SW's dual Rune Priest list, otherwise Mephiston is better.

[Karhedron]

I have to admit LKHERO that i feel the reclusiarch is useless with DC. The difference between a reclusiarch and a normal chaplain iirc is that the reclusiarch makes the unit fearless. What is the point of this if you add him to an already fearless unit. You're better off buying a cheaper elites chaplain imho.

Given the competition for Elite slots I can see a Reclusiarch being viable. Does he get +1W as well?

I think the stormraven can work competitively but i think you need two. One will get casually shot down with a lascannon. But two moving flat out with a 4+ cover save will be more troublesome i think.

I agree, 1 Storm Raven has "shoot me" painted on the hull. I think that using them to deliver Dreadnoughts is going to be priceless. Fleet DC Dreads can potentially get Turn 1 charges. I wonder if a Librarian Dreadnought can cast his 5+ cover save power on the Stormraven whilst grappled to it?

also who do you think will survive longer, mephiston or the sanquinor.

i would feel safer with sanquinor, i think he would survive longer against MC.

Actually I would put my money in Mephiston against most MCs. He only needs to score 1 wound to ID them with his force sword. He has an eyewatering number of high strength, high weapon skill, high initiative attacks, most MCs will not live long enough to even hit him.

[OverchargeThis!]

I see lots of lists avoiding death company. An assault squad of 10 guys with PF and dual MG, plus a priest with packs and powerweapons, will cost more than a 10 man DC in rhino with a few power weapons mixed in. Also, the assault squad looses benefits of the priest with the priest is killed.

Even a jump dc of 8 guys with about 3 power weapons costs less than the above combination and is fearless. While it doesn't score, I see far less complications in using the unit than in setting up an assault squad in this way. My 2 cents.

I dunno, guys. I"m still thinking that after the codex has been experimented with for a bit, we'll be back to taking fairly large-ish sized squads of Death Company.

Priests might end up being support characters arriving via pod or rhinos, leading sternguards or tactials, giving buffs to the rest of hte army.

All theory at this point, but 9 sternguard are (I think) under 200 points and have the special ammo. Just a bog standard squad of these guys with no upgrades providing cost-effective firepower to your line, and buffs via the priest could do alot for the rest of htre army and preserve points as well.

[scarvet]

DC is too expensive with jump packs, a fast Rhino/Razorback would do the trick.

[Karhedron]

DS the Sang guards with 2 infernous pistols, a priest and Dante and you can easily pop a LR. Then with baal preds you shoot what was in it. Sang guards and Dante might not be as good as assault squads, but they definitely are devastating against Marines, CSM, Necrons and such.

You realise you are paying over 500 points for that combo? I certainly would expect them to pop a tank costing half their points. But why bother with expensive Sanguinary Guard for busting Land Raiders?

For half the cost you can take a 5-man assault squad with a melta gun and inferno pistol. Dante has a pistol too and you can even give one to the Priest if you want to be sure of the kill. That unit will do the same job for 100 points cheaper than Sanguinary Guard.

That is the real problem I have with Sanguinary Guard. They don't do anything sufficiently better than other JP troops to be worth their costs. And like early 3rd edition termies they are plasma magnets. If you want a special weapon delivery system there are cheaper options in the codex. If you want hard hitting CC squads then Terminators are more resilient.

Maybe someone can make them work like flying terminators (and thus save points on the Land Raider). However 5th edition inherently favours mech over jump infantry and thus I cannot see Sanguinary Guard being competative.

Shame as they are truly beautiful models. I may have to convert some up as Vanguard or Honour Guard.

[Maiku]

Mephiston is a marine size Swarmlord which can use one more power, with greater range and utility. Unless you want the super-all comer like SW's dual Rune Priest list, otherwise Mephiston is better.

Except you can give the Swarmlord a way to get into combat. Mephiston can get gunned down pretty pretty easily (Plasma, Las, Melta, any other AP2-). Swarmlord has an invul (Even if it's just in CC), Mephiston doesn't. ALL of the Swamlord's attacks auto-ID, Mephiston can only ID 1 model a turn AND it takes up one of his 3 psychic powers per turn.

Yes Meph is faster (getting there and in combat), but he's not as big of a threat, especially with so many power weapons/fists out there to kill you in CC that you DONT GET SAVES AGAINST. Unless you kill the entire squad, he's going to put the saves on someone other than the Fist guy and he's going to smack you in the head at least once/turn until you kill him.

[scarvet]

Meph can easily cover by Blood Chalice bubble, vehicle cover, and have wing of sanguins to boot....

And he have 5 wounds, that's before the gaze thing (i think he still have it...i think).

Sanguinary Guard would be nice models as plastic honor guard and vanguard

[Maiku]

Gaze just lets him re-roll against a model now if that model fails a Ld at -4.

By Blood Chalice, I assume you mean either the SP bubble or the Shield of Sanguinius? Either way, the shield requires ANOTHER libby to be within 6" of Meph and the SP bubble gives him FnP which doesn't work against anything that would get past his armour anyways. He's not bad, I just don't think he's worth the points necessarily...

Another thing, the fact that he doesn't get Blood Lance or some of the other awesome psychic abilities is kind of lame.

[General_disarray]

Having read the codex Im probably going to run the following for my fleshtearers.

Astaroth
3x Assault Squad w/ Jumpacks, 2 infernus pistols, PF+shield
10man death company w/ Jumppacks
Devastator squad w/ 4 Heavy Bolters serg with power weapon + rhino

Astaroth goes with the DC, Devs stay back and riddle stuff with bolter shells, assault squads advance shoot transports then squish the contents.

Hoping to fail the red thirst tests with this army, furious charge and fearless on all assault squads would be awesome!

[Karhedron]

I think a lot of people are overlooking Dev squads now that they have a point drop. 5 Devs with 4 missile launchers cost less than 5 Long Fangs with the same (and Long Fangs are popular in SW lists). Keep them castled in cover near a Priest and you can rain the missiles for quite a while.

Not as flashy as some of the options but still a very cost-effective way of dealing with most MCs and transport spam.

[Maiku]

What point limit is that at? It seems kind of small and you're not going to be popping tanks with anything unless you're REAL close... Why wouldn't you give the jump marines Meltaguns instead of the Infernus Pistols? sure it takes them down an attack in CC, but you're more likely to smash things up in shooting.

Why would you give the Dev's HBs instead of MLs? They're the same price and they can put holes in tanks AND infantry... Personally, if my Heavy slots weren't being eaten up by 2 Vinds and a AC/LC pred (AV13 spam ftw?), I'd be playing a 4 ML Dev squad; they're just pure awesome for their price.

[General_disarray]

What point limit is that at? It seems kind of small and you're not going to be popping tanks with anything unless you're REAL close..

If I recall correctly that should be about 1.5k.

This is a jump pack assault force, its supposed to be real close!

Good point about the ML though, the ranged AT will be useful.

[Thoras]

At the moment i'm seriously thinking of playing on all the auras that are available,

Sanguinor
Honour Guard (using the sang guard models, yummy) with chap banner
Sang Priest

Thats a 6 inch FNP, FC, +2 attacks. Maybe throw in a lib with JP and sang shield for a 5 inch cover save too.

Also for the more die hard BA players (i'm coming back to the fold from leaving BA in second ed for eldar), how viable would jump marines moving forward with a baal pred shield be (i.e. use the fast moving preds as shields for the jump troops as they move forward)?

[jb85]

Except you can give the Swarmlord a way to get into combat. Mephiston can get gunned down pretty pretty easily (Plasma, Las, Melta, any other AP2-). Swarmlord has an invul (Even if it's just in CC), Mephiston doesn't. ALL of the Swamlord's attacks auto-ID, Mephiston can only ID 1 model a turn AND it takes up one of his 3 psychic powers per turn.

Yes Meph is faster (getting there and in combat), but he's not as big of a threat, especially with so many power weapons/fists out there to kill you in CC that you DONT GET SAVES AGAINST. Unless you kill the entire squad, he's going to put the saves on someone other than the Fist guy and he's going to smack you in the head at least once/turn until you kill him.

Granted most of that is true but it is running under the assumption that he will be running about in the open and attacking things by himself. With fleet and wings he can shift about the table at a reasonable pace aNd being a man sized model he is significantly easier to hide than an MC, particular if have you have vehicles (wHich based on initial list suggestions, there will be alot of on the table ) run interference.

In addition if you throW him into combat by himself against concentrations of power weapons/fists then you are asking for trouble. While he cannot join a unit, that doesn't prevent a co-ordinated attack. And any decent assualt unit from the book backed up by Mephiston shouldn't leave much behind.

While he is not the terrifying monster some made him out to when his stats were first revealed, he is still a powerful player in the codex, although one that will take a degree of care to use.

[Maiku]

If I recall correctly that should be about 1.5k.

This is a jump pack assault force, its supposed to be real close!

Good point about the ML though, the ranged AT will be useful.

The problem is, how are you going to GET close? You don't have any kind of mobile cover so you're really just praying that the layout of the table terrain is in your favour. Jump armies are more viable than before but you still need to protect them until they get into cover.