Tactica: Blood Angels

[Killswitch<>]

I think a lot of people are overlooking Dev squads now that they have a point drop. 5 Devs with 4 missile launchers cost less than 5 Long Fangs with the same (and Long Fangs are popular in SW lists). Keep them castled in cover near a Priest and you can rain the missiles for quite a while.

Not as flashy as some of the options but still a very cost-effective way of dealing with most MCs and transport spam.

5 Long Fangs with 4 rockets are 115pts and can split fire & are LD 9 & have counter attack.

5 Devs with 4 rockets are 130pts, can't split fire & only the sergeant has LD9 and they are 130pts

I dont see how they cost less D:?

[General_disarray]

The problem is, how are you going to GET close? You don't have any kind of mobile cover so you're really just praying that the layout of the table terrain is in your favour. Jump armies are more viable than before but you still need to protect them until they get into cover.

My regular gaming group uses a lot of terrain, there is an abundance of cover on our tables.

[Znail]

Mephiston is a marine size Swarmlord which can use one more power, with greater range and utility. Unless you want the super-all comer like SW's dual Rune Priest list, otherwise Mephiston is better.

Did you write them in the wrong order? Mephiston is limited to his Plasmapistol for range and has no utility outside of melee. Swarmlord has D3 S3 AP2 hits that drains wounds and leadership test with wounds for failure as range attacks and 18" Synapse, gives a special rule to a unit without 18" and boosts reserve roll with +1 as utility. Comparing those two makes Meph look realy bad.

[ago syb]

Can you put scouts in a stormraven and have it outflank with a DC/Furioso in tow? That seems like it would be fun for me, and in 3rd I liked using scouts as cheap Str5/In5 close combat attacks (if you get them Red Thirst with Astorath or in a bubble, now).

[Maiku]

My regular gaming group uses a lot of terrain, there is an abundance of cover on our tables.

Ah, that makes sense then. In most of the places that I play, we run the standard 25% and that requires mobile cover for jump armies.

I really liked scouts in 3rd as they were cheap and laid the hurt on in CC, however, now that they're BS/WS3, they're less great. Of course, S5/I5 on the charge is still good since they'll be going first, they just won't hit as much. Personally, they're just outclassed by Assault Marines in the troop section. If Assault Marines hadn't gotten so much better in the new dex, I'd be flooding scouts again.

[Karhedron]

Can you put scouts in a stormraven and have it outflank with a DC/Furioso in tow?

No the Stormraven is a heavy choice so does not gain the Scout's outflank ability (unlike a dedicated transport). You could DS them but you might as well take Assault Marines without jump packs in that case.

[Maiku]

Although outflanking Stormravens would be SWEEEEEET!

[Killswitch<>]

I'd only take meph with land raiders, as he can hid behind them, and your opponent will be like "do I go for the raiders or meph...hmmmm"!

[WarpWhisperer]

Anybody got an opinion on taking a Sang. Priest on a bike with a bike squad?

Turbo boost to give cover save for following jump packers/SCs, and maybe even dreads, before assaulting in following turn, ensuring second wave within the FC/FNP bubble?

[Sabe]

Librarian is the unit buffer/ enemy nuisance. He can make his squad Preferred Enemy and also force a unit to flee from 24' away at a -2 MORALE check...which is huge. Leadership re-rolls are abundant, but morale is completely different.

You have it backwards. Morale re-rolls are abundant, leadership re-rolls are rarer. Also, leadership re-rolls allow you to re-roll any leadership test, which morale falls under. So either way units can use a re-roll. Morale tests are leadership tests, leadership tests are not morale tests. Like I said, doesn't matter much in this case, as a re-roll for either type of test applies in this case.

Sanguinor and Honor Guard w/ Chapter Banner providing +2 attack bubbles to the rest of the army.

Pretty sure the "bubble" for the chapter banner is only morale/pinning re-rolls, the +1 attack is only for the unit.

5 Long Fangs with 4 rockets are 115pts and can split fire & are LD 9 & have counter attack.

5 Devs with 4 rockets are 130pts, can't split fire & only the sergeant has LD9 and they are 130pts

I dont see how they cost less D:?

Thats a math fail. 5 LF's with ML's is 130 points. The same cost that the dev's would be with the same loadout in the BA book, and I believe BA dev sergs still have the BS 5 wargear piece. The BA Dev's only have ld 9 on the serg so they go down to ld8 if he dies, but the LF's lose their ability to split fire if their sarge dies. Additionally the BA Dev's could well have fearless(and FC not that it matters) from Red Thirst, in which case their sarge is basically an ablative wound, which the LF's don't get.

Don't get me wrong, the LF's are overall the better unit IMO, but the BA dev's have gotten a big boost over reg devs and are certainly viable.

Also, in regards to the Mephiston debate:
Dante, Sanguinor, Seth, Astorath > Mephiston. Sorry but the truth is as powerful as he is he just can't take the damage that a 250 point HQ has too. his T6 and W5 is actually still less survivable to dantes T4 W4 with a 4+ inv save, because that save makes a titanic difference and Dante can hide in squads. Comparing Meph to the Swarm lord is incorrect as well, as the Swarm lord has a 4+ in CC(HUGE difference), can(and does) hide behind a 6 T6 wound retinue and has WS9, which means WS4's hit him on a 5+, mephs WS only protects him against WS3 or less. And the Swarmlords psychic powers are better.
Its not the Mephy sucks though, its just that against a lot of lists he won't be able to match his points in the opponents lists, the amount of Ap1-2 around is just too dangerous to a guy with no inv. save and no squad protection, keep in mind its hardly a waste to fire a melta at Mephy as he's just as expensive as an LR and it usually takes more than one Melta shot to drop a LR anuway.

[g0ddy]

I don't know what's not competitive about Sanguinary Guard. They have good pre-assault shooting, 2-handed power weapons, jump packs and 2+ saves, all for only 200 points. The temptation is to kit them out with extras, but if you leave them bare-bones and keep them near or attached to a Sanguinary High Priest, they'll definitely get their points back. The key is to make sure they don't get charged by high-initiative power weapons or MC's, and that they aren't exposed to massed AP1 or AP2 fire.

The way you worded "2 handed power weapons" makes me think that youre under the impression they're are beneficial? A Glaive Encarmine is just a master crafted power sword - its really kind of pointless - you trade an additional attack for a single reroll to hit. Thats almost like arguing a twin-linked lascannon is better than two lascannons...

There is no strength benefit for it being two handed...(its not a master crafted relic blade...) it simply means you cannot combine it with a pistol for an extra attack.

However, my main issue with issue with the unit is their price. They are not terminators.

IMHO - buy the models - they are awesome... but paint them black and call them Angels of Death (Company).

(EDIT : This sounds a bit snobbish... unintentional.. changed wording.. just wanted to clarify what the Glaives actually do )

~ Zilla

[Killswitch<>]

Thats a math fail. 5 LF's with ML's is 130 points. The same cost that the dev's would be with the same loadout in the BA book, and I believe BA dev sergs still have the BS 5 wargear piece. The BA Dev's only have ld 9 on the serg so they go down to ld8 if he dies, but the LF's lose their ability to split fire if their sarge dies. Additionally the BA Dev's could well have fearless(and FC not that it matters) from Red Thirst, in which case their sarge is basically an ablative wound, which the LF's don't get.

Don't get me wrong, the LF's are overall the better unit IMO, but the BA dev's have gotten a big boost over reg devs and are certainly viable.

Re -read my quote, you have infact failed the math. I stated 5 long fangs with 4 rockets, which is 115pts! Dev sergeants have no bs5 wargear, and yes they could have fearless, but as you say, long fangs are still better!

[Prismshard]

Ah, I read 2-handed power swords as if they were str 6 weapons. I haven't looked at the codex yet, just the summary posted on here. That makes them a lot less useful.

As for terminators, they're still my heroes in my BA list I believe. I'll be fielding a 5-man squad of assault terminators (1 TH/SS, 4 LC) with a Sanguinary Priest and a Librarian in a Land Raider Redeemer. My tentative 'ard boyz list will be running two of those.

[Karhedron]

Anybody got an opinion on taking a Sang. Priest on a bike with a bike squad?

Turbo boost to give cover save for following jump packers/SCs, and maybe even dreads, before assaulting in following turn, ensuring second wave within the FC/FNP bubble?

Hmm, could work, the question is what do you do with the bikers?

If you are rushing them towards the enemy I would give them melta and use them to bust tanks/transports open so that the following assault squads can assault the contents. To work properly you might need 2 priests otherwise the Bikers may get too far ahead of the jump packers.

[g0ddy]

Here are what's good about the Dex in my opinion. I've seen the Dex multiple times and basically have it memorized already.

...........
Most cost ineffective unit: Death Company, Sanguinary Guard unfortunately.

......

10 death company in a rhino.. with a power fist and power sword... or perhaps in a drop pod? is that really all that cost ineffective? 250-300 pts~

I would never pay more than 5 pts per model for a jump pack on any unit... 15 pts is pure madness... considering how terribly it combines with "Rage".

~ Zilla

[LKHERO]

Given the competition for Elite slots I can see a Reclusiarch being viable. Does he get +1W as well?

The reason to take the Reclusiarch over a Chaplain if you're going for DC is because he counts as a Chaplain but takes up a HQ slot instead of elite for a few more points. If you're planning to use DC, I hope you're going to use a Chaplain to take full advantage of their combat capabilities. This saves you points and provides you with a +1A/W/I/WS5 hero.

And on the debate between the Swarmlord and Mephiston, they should be used differently. Both are combat monsters, but one has the advantage of hiding behind almost anything because he's a 25mm model. I think players that can capitalize on positioning Mephiston to the fullest will reap the most benefits. I would also like to mention that he has a Force Weapon, so as long as you don't blow all of your psychic powers, he should be able to kill any non-EW character in the game. With FC nearby, he swings at the same time as Yriel. That's unheard of.

The problem is, how are you going to GET close? You don't have any kind of mobile cover so you're really just praying that the layout of the table terrain is in your favour. Jump armies are more viable than before but you still need to protect them until they get into cover.

Mephiston does very well in games where you have a lot of vehicles and terrain to take advantage of cover. In my list, I have 8 vehicles in 2K points. He basically plays musical chairs and takes advantage of all that cover and LoS. He never dies.

[Znail]

Sanguinary Guard arent awesome, but they arent that bad either. If we compare then with Terminators so doesnt things look that. The extra speed from Jump Packs are pretty usefull as it both saves you alot of points for a transport and lets you use terrain better for cover. You are also not going to be easily avoided if on foot. The cost is the 5++ save, shorter range on the guns and power weapons instead of Fists. With furious charge so are the powerweapons even an advantage and you can get fists if you want to pay extra too. Assault Terminators have the 3++ save or Lightning Claws but no range and lack of mobility is a downside. Personaly I think all 3 units are comparable. Vanilla Assault Termiantors have a for that codex unique role. But BA is diffrent as thanx to FC so can any marine harm T6 on 5+ and thus are MC's not as much a problem.

[Sekhmet]

Anyone toy with an 11 dreadnought list?

For 1915 pts you have:

100 pt HQ of some sort (a few options)
3 Furioso Dreadnoughts, no upgrades
25 Death Company
5 Death Company Dreadnoughts, no upgrades
3 Dreadnoughts, MM+DCCW

13 KPs, 6 troops

[LKHERO]

Well, you might as well throw in some Drop Pods there, or turn a Furioso into a Librarian. Actually, you can turn 1 into a Furioso Librarian and take a Drop Pod. Voila, 2k points.

[Maiku]

6 Troops of which 0 score... You auto-lose at objectives and you're rockin' no way to get the dreadnoughts there... At least give them pods or something.