Avatar size preference (both fluff and gaming-wise)

[Ellythrion]

Ok this is just out of curiosity and also to try and hunt down a certain piece of artwork...

There've been 3 Avatar incarnations models-wise since the Eldar came along as far as I know:

* The original avatar model which was not much taller than standard infantry, which seems to be supported by the size of the avatar seen in the excellent piece of artwork in the current codex (amidst the aspect shrine statues etc.)
http://zachary.org/games/gw/eldar4.jpg

* The current standard avatar model which would equate to being about 11/12ft tall (ish), now a monstrous creature so suitably bigger and bulkier - this guy has been in circulation for years now and is the most commonly used avatar and there's numerous pieces of artwork and fluff which features this sized Avi.
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_FTIA70sSv8..._Avatar_lg.jpg

* The forge world avatar which is by far the biggest of the bunch, he'd equate to around 30ft tall if my guesstimations are correct - there was one piece of artwork which I can't find for the life of me, think it might have been in the 2nd or 3rd edition rulebook where there was a mahoosive Avatar that was this size facing off against a bloodthirster (or arguably Khaine vs Khorne) and I fell in love with that piece of artwork so it always made me believe and feel thats the size the avatar should be (hence my joy at finally getting the forge world model).
If someone could find out that piece of artwork I'd be incredibly grateful!
http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/acatalog...r3store%5D.jpg

I was discussing the Avatar with a local GW manager and he was saying how his idea of the Avatar was always the first - the fairly normal-sized super warrior, where I described my encounter with the aforementioned piece of artwork always had the avatar in my mind as this enormous behemoth god incarnation, so I was just wondering what everybody elses preferences were in terms of both fluff and also the models and gaming.

I personally prefer the forge world one for the above described reasons and also the psychological effect it has on many opponents - along with my wraithlords it soaks up a lot of firepower from my forces which, when fortuned, it can really endure!

So yus, share your thoughts and opinions, and again if anybody could find out that piece of artwork I would be ecstatic!

[Godzooky]

I bet you're referring to the awesome Mark Gibbons drawing.

Edit: http://www.redknuckle.com/sales.htm#

[Hasan ibn Sabbah]

FW all the way, super-warrior niche is already occupied by Phoenix Lords and avatar of Khaine should be impressive enough to at least put some fight with Chaos Greater Daemons... not get stomped by thirsters hoof.

[Spoik]

I tend to like the 2nd option (the current 'standard' madel). I remember when I first read about the Avatar, and the great little story in WD127 where he fights a Keeper of Secrets, and that sort of scale is what I imagined then.

I'd prefer a more slender-looking model, though...

[Petay1985]

The forgeworld model, size and proportions are exactly how i think they should be!

[Hellebore]

You can still buy the original from Mark Gibbons if you've got a spare 700 pounds:

http://www.redknuckle.com/sales.htm#

The thing with daemons is that they can really be any size. The avatar possesses a statue so it will be as big as the statue (or could change its size).

The funny thing is that the 1st ed avatar had random stats and the 2nd ed avatar simply had the highest value of those stats. So the eldar avatar could be mansized with monstrous creature stats...

The FW one certainly looks the best.

Hellebore

[Chroma]

So yus, share your thoughts and opinions, and again if anybody could find out that piece of artwork I would be ecstatic!

There's a picture of an Avatar vs a Bloodthirster stand-off on page 83 of the old Epic: 40,000 Armies Book.

That might be the pic you're looking for.

[Ellythrion]

I've found the pic!

This is probably not going to be accessible for most of you, but if for some reason like me you still have the citadel miniatures 1998 annual (hehe) then flick to the bottom of page 283 and there is the one I meant - though I am certain there is a full page of it somewhere in one of the rulebooks (its not in the 2nd edition rulebook I've just had a look.

And nope, it's not the Mark Gibbons drawing either - that ones a full-page in the current codex so I would've been able to reference that pretty quickly.

Glad to see most people opting for the forge world model, I've not heard too much support for it fluff-wise (a lot of people have said its a beautiful model but not how they envisage the avatar).

I agree size isn't specific fluff-wise with the shards of Khaine's spirit (so-to-speak) animating a statue so they're all feasible and legit, I was just wondering which of the interpretations and sizes seemed dominant in most players minds.

[Godzooky]

OK, second attempt.

This one?

Oh, and personally I always imagined the 2nd edition as the appropriate size, probably based on the fact it was an elegant size to face off against the old KoS. I liked that old WD story referenced earlier, too.

Although the FW model has ramped it up to the next level. I like the Apocalypse use of it as an ultra-eggy version having been wound up by the Phoenix Lords.

[shadow hunter]

I do have the forgeworld model (unpainted still with spear), but I honestly prefer the bulkier metal version (greater daemon sized). The forgeworld one is a little lanky for my taste.

[Ellythrion]

Haha, nope godzooky that's not it either - the picture (which I've since found if you read my above post ) is not just of the avatar but its facing off against a bloodthirster whilst a battle rages about them - they are HUGE, both bigger than even their forge world models would depict them.

[Jagged]

I think the FW model is too big and would rather it was current MC size. Maybe same size as the Wraithlord.

The current metal thing needs a re-work though. I've never liked that model.

[Idaan]

which seems to be supported by the size of the avatar seen in the excellent piece of artwork in the current codex (amidst the aspect shrine statues etc.)

It's Fuegan, not the Avatar.

Minor nitpick aside, I'd prefer the FW version if only it had matching rules. I mean, the current Avatar is pretty weak. It is both a curse and a blessing that both Gav Thorpe and Phil Kelly didn't want to go overboard with monstrous creature and independent character rules.

[Godzooky]

Haha, nope godzooky that's not it either - the picture (which I've since found if you read my above post ) is not just of the avatar but its facing off against a bloodthirster whilst a battle rages about them - they are HUGE, both bigger than even their forge world models would depict them.

Goddammit!!!

[Ellythrion]

It's Fuegan, not the Avatar.

Minor nitpick aside, I'd prefer the FW version if only it had matching rules. I mean, the current Avatar is pretty weak. It is both a curse and a blessing that both Gav Thorpe and Phil Kelly didn't want to go overboard with monstrous creature and independent character rules.

Ah I see now, upon close inspection yes it does indeed look like it is Fuegan and not the Avatar, but still, its an easy mistake to make, especially with the head shape.

Rules-wise I really don't think the Avatar is pretty weak at all really. If you get a farseer throwing a fortune its way in particular its really quite durable and a more-than-capable combat monster. I wouldnt complain about it having slightly more powerful stats (I think maybe slightly bump up its strength in particular) but overall its pretty damn brutal.

[Max_Killfactor]

there was one piece of artwork which I can't find for the life of me, think it might have been in the 2nd or 3rd edition rulebook where there was a mahoosive Avatar that was this size facing off against a bloodthirster (or arguably Khaine vs Khorne) and I fell in love with that piece of artwork so it always made me believe and feel thats the size the avatar should be (hence my joy at finally getting the forge world model).

Hell yeah. I remember that picture. My 13 year old mind was blown. I promptly sold off my Blood Angels and started Eldar. My friend at the time played Chaos and had a Bloodthirster. Awesome.

I know you found that pic, can you post it? Everyone needs to see it. I need to see it, it's been too long. Maybe I'll start Eldar again, haha.

So yeah, I think the Avatar should be big too. Same size as greater demons. When the 2nd Avatar came out, he was the same size of the greater demons. Since then, the Greater Demons got bigger though, and more head options. I think I'd want something between the 2nd Avatar and the Forgeworld one. If I had to take one, I'd go with the FW.

[AbusePuppy]

My avatar is usually 60 pixels by 60 pixels, since that's the regulation size on most forums I go to. Some allow bigger, though.

Wait, what are we talking about?

[Col. Tartleton]

I like the more man sized. It fits the eldar aesthetic better. Avatar should be roughly equal to a Primarch in size and abilities. WS 10 and other stats conjures up images of Jedi flips and twirls and wailing lightsaber doom

[Kasr]

I like the normal model daemon size, because fluff wise the primarch of the emperors children went toe to toe with one and I don't think from the book that he was figthing something 3 times his size because he was choking the thing to death and its not possible to choke something that big even if you are a primarch

[SandQueen]

Ive got a FW one burning its way through the mail.

The normal one just looks a bit cartoonish to me, too small for the art. I like the FW one because it looks like it deserves to be called the Avatar of a god of war